Do the Avs Lack Creativity?

chet1926

Registered User
Jan 9, 2008
12,273
5,586
Denver
Yes it is a real thing. And the problem is simple. We don't have a real 2nd line, so everyone below the top line is playing out of position.

Move everyone down a line and things would be fine. Soderberg is a 3C, if he was playing 3C with his 18 goals he'd be one of the best 3rd liners in the league. Calvert would be fine as 3rd line wing. Compher would look fine in a 3rd line wing role. Then that would leave a combo of Kerfoot, Jost, Ghetto, Nieto, Wilson, Greer fighting it out for a 4th line role, which they'd all be fine at. But instead we have a combo of these guys fighting it out for playing time in the middle six where there is no clear definition of which line is which.

This also leads to guys like Bourque, Dries etc. Getting tons of playing time when they shouldn't be close to the NHL. If we had real depth a guy like Nieto would be a rotational 13th forward not a counted on middle six guy.

Then we get to defense. And there really isn't much to say. Barrie used to be creative, but now it seems like he only feels comfortable firing long range shots from the blueline that get blocked 90% of the time. Girard has creativity but isn't getting much of a chance to show it. Johnson is a decent dman but it's a one trick pony on offense. Zadorov has skills doesn't use them, ever. Nemeth, Cole, Barberio can be shot to the Moon for all I care no skill what so ever. Graves is a one trick pony, luckily his one trick, his shot, is a really good one.

It's on Sakic this summer to find a solution to the 2nd line. He has to build an entire line, not an easy task. He might luck out and get some help via #1 pick, if not it still needs a resolution so everyone can be shifted down to spots more appropriate for their skill level. As for defense Makar will help. Still could use another body with skill, my pick would be to go after Gardiner from Toronto.
 
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Hornstar

Registered User
Feb 3, 2018
1,742
1,283
Yes it is a real thing. And the problem is simple. We don't have a real 2nd line, so everyone below the top line is playing out of position.

Move everyone down a line and things would be fine. Soderberg is a 3C, if he was playing 3C with his 18 goals he'd be one of the best 3rd liners in the league. Calvert would be fine as 3rd line wing. Compher would look fine in a 3rd line wing role. Then that would leave a combo of Kerfoot, Jost, Ghetto, Nieto, Wilson, Greer fighting it out for a 4th line role, which they'd all be fine at. But instead we have a combo of these guys fighting it out for playing time in the middle six where there is no clear definition of which line is which.

This also leads to guys like Bourque, Dries etc. Getting tons of playing time when they shouldn't be close to the NHL. If we had real depth a guy like Nieto would be a rotational 13th forward not a counted on middle six guy.

Then we get to defense. And there really isn't much to say. Barrie used to be creative, but now it seems like he only feels comfortable firing long range shots from the blueline that get blocked 90% of the time. Girard has creativity but isn't getting much of a chance to show it. Johnson is a decent dman but it's a one trick pony on offense. Zadorov has skills doesn't use them, ever. Nemeth, Cole, Barberio can be shot to the Moon for all I care no skill what so ever. Graves is a one trick pony, luckily his one trick, his shot, is a really good one.

It's on Sakic this summer to find a solution to the 2nd line. He has to build an entire line, not an easy task. He might luck out and get some help via #1 pick, if not it still needs a resolution so everyone can be shifted down to spots more appropriate for their skill level. As for defense Makar will help. Still could use another body with skill, my pick would be to go after Gardiner from Toronto.
The last 3 words I would have left off.
 

Foppa2118

Registered User
Oct 3, 2003
52,134
31,135
Absolutely. This is a result of Bednar's system. It can be effective but it's also pretty mechanical. You have to play this way otherwise it won't work. That's why Bednar gives up on guys or doesn't trust them when they don't do it properly.

Even the top line is pretty mechanical. They make the same kind of plays all the time. Little chip plays for Nate to beat everyone to the puck, a similar cycle down low, or Nate or Landy will gain the zone with possession and then pull up and dish back to the point, where they make a simple but effective shot on net with traffic in the slot.
 

MarkT

Heretic
Nov 11, 2017
3,993
4,496
Yes it is a real thing. And the problem is simple. We don't have a real 2nd line, so everyone below the top line is playing out of position.

Move everyone down a line and things would be fine. Soderberg is a 3C, if he was playing 3C with his 18 goals he'd be one of the best 3rd liners in the league. Calvert would be fine as 3rd line wing. Compher would look fine in a 3rd line wing role. Then that would leave a combo of Kerfoot, Jost, Ghetto, Nieto, Wilson, Greer fighting it out for a 4th line role, which they'd all be fine at. But instead we have a combo of these guys fighting it out for playing time in the middle six where there is no clear definition of which line is which.

This also leads to guys like Bourque, Dries etc. Getting tons of playing time when they shouldn't be close to the NHL. If we had real depth a guy like Nieto would be a rotational 13th forward not a counted on middle six guy.

Then we get to defense. And there really isn't much to say. Barrie used to be creative, but now it seems like he only feels comfortable firing long range shots from the blueline that get blocked 90% of the time. Girard has creativity but isn't getting much of a chance to show it. Johnson is a decent dman but it's a one trick pony on offense. Zadorov has skills doesn't use them, ever. Nemeth, Cole, Barberio can be shot to the Moon for all I care no skill what so ever. Graves is a one trick pony, luckily his one trick, his shot, is a really good one.

It's on Sakic this summer to find a solution to the 2nd line. He has to build an entire line, not an easy task. He might luck out and get some help via #1 pick, if not it still needs a resolution so everyone can be shifted down to spots more appropriate for their skill level. As for defense Makar will help. Still could use another body with skill, my pick would be to go after Gardiner from Toronto.

I agree with pretty much everything but Gardiner would be a terrible idea. He'll be an overpaid left-handed version of Barrie who regularly costs his team games. No thanks. We have enough offensive defensemen on the team and in the pipeline.

Overall, I think it's pretty clear this was an evaluation year and the hope was that Kerfoot, Compher, Jost, Ghetto, Wilson etc would have stepped up and at least a couple would have proven themselves to be legit 2nd line players by now. Obviously they've all failed that evaluation and now Sakic can start making decisions about how to get 2nd line players from outside the organization. Given our contract situation though I'm honestly not worried at all. We have assets we can move and plenty of cap flexibility so I see no reason the Avs can't fine at least two 2nd line players, which, along with Makar and maybe Ottawa's pick, can help inject some offensive creativity into the lineup.
 

mapletreemarty

Registered User
Jan 26, 2017
1,384
1,309
Thunder Bay
I think the Avs need a finisher more than a creator if anything. Someone like Skinner would’ve been a huge plus for this team imo.

That's one thing that seems to be apparent with the Avs is that they can get scoring chances, some real prime scoring chances but I feel like we simply fire the puck over or wide of the net more often then other teams in the league when they are in similar positions. Maybe the guys are gripping those sticks tighter when we are in a rut and are trying to be too perfect with their shots and then it just backfires anyways.

Is being able to pass to another players stick or receive a pass being creative? Avs has had major execution issues for a decade.

This is so true.... and it looks like other teams against us make it look so easy at times... is that because our defensive coverage is allowing passing lanes big enough for big rigs to drive through? Or these teams are coached better, is the ice at the Pepsi center so shitty and to blame for this?

Finally, someone mentioned about a skills coach, and I thought that's why we hired Allard. They hired him as a skills and development coach and is a full time assistant after the lost Oliver to the Rangers.
 

the_fan

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Jul 25, 2006
30,120
20,172
I think Avs trying to play a skill game lacking talent when they should play a hard working, grinding style of game. They also don't have too much smarts, good two way players.
 

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