Euro: do soccer leagues need a salary cap

[phisherman]

Which would be? I'm not advocating for a salary cap. What I'd want is as free a market as possible. I want a rich owner to come in and create as many super clubs as possible. I'd rather have more clubs have crazy money than limit the ones that do have the money.

The same way that minor league teams exist. The same way that the non-elite college teams attract big fans.

Acting like there are no band-wagon Euro fans is just silly. Of course bang-wagon fans exist in Europe, but it's just silly, so not worth having a discussion on.

I don't want to continue specifically on the bandwagon topic but of course there are bandwagon fans in Europe. But there are less of it compared to North America. North American teams wouldn't last with a relegation model due to the bandwagon nature in North America.

There are only a few teams that have real passionate fans in North American sports compared to Europe and South America.

 

[Stray Wasp]

As for the idea of a salary cap, if it's a choice between too much money going to players or to middle-aged leeches in suits, I'd prefer the players to have the cash.

I'd pay £40 to watch Mike Ashley try and dribble a football through an Afghan minefield, but not to actually play a game.

(N.B. The curse of sterling strikes again. Perhaps I should inform the Daily Mail. I'm sure they could conjure a lurid headline out of it.)

 

[S E P H]

This topic is kind of funny, because the NA vs Europe is traditionally non-traditional. What I mean by that is USA and Canada were built on capitalistic free market approaches, while Europe has always been more socialist of the two continents. However, majority of the sports in NA use a socialism salary cap system even if it's a soft cap, while the socialist European Union employs a free market capitalism agenda in its sports. Just thought that was a tad hilarious.

Regardless of what my personal political agendas believes are, I would like to see a salary cap for Euro tournaments (CL/Europa), but understand it can nor ever will be implemented. There is already too huge of a difference between the wages of depth and rotational players for Barca compared to Preston North End.

Many big clubs are fan owned, so certainly that is not true.

Arsenal showing this premise is false...

 

[Evilo]

while the socialist European Union employs a free market capitalism agenda in its sports.

Unfortunately, EU is all about capitalism. Without any limit.

 

[YNWA14]

I won't tell my own story about what happened to me from playing sports, but one of my friends and teammates growing up now plays in the NFL and has won the Super Bowl multiple times. There is SO much more to the players mindset than the way you've distilled it.

The obscene riches that players sometimes receive obstructs what they've given up in order to play. The idea of their wages being capped when there's so much money flowing through these sports bothers me immensely. If anyone deserves to profit from the game it's them first and foremost.

People give up a lot to work as nurses, accountants, lawyers and doctors too. Athletes aren't making some kind of insane sacrifice without knowing the benefits of what could happen, and the consequences if it doesn't work out. They are already being paid far more than what they should be especially relative to professions that actually benefit society. As such I don't really care who's pocket the money goes into as long as the sport itself is healthy and being taken care of so that I can watch it. There will always be other players willing to play, and it's certainly more entertaining if more than just 2 or 3 teams (or in the EPL's case, 4 or 5) are able to compete each year.

 

[Live in the Now]

People give up a lot to work as nurses, accountants, lawyers and doctors too. Athletes aren't making some kind of insane sacrifice without knowing the benefits of what could happen, and the consequences if it doesn't work out. They are already being paid far more than what they should be especially relative to professions that actually benefit society. As such I don't really care who's pocket the money goes into as long as the sport itself is healthy and being taken care of so that I can watch it. There will always be other players willing to play, and it's certainly more entertaining if more than just 2 or 3 teams (or in the EPL's case, 4 or 5) are able to compete each year.

Athletes benefit society more than you think, and even though some of them aren't great role models, they're people that youngsters look up to and want to be like. That's really all I can say I guess. But there are a lot of people who live to watch them play every week, and frankly we live in quite a depressing society. What they provide to society is overall a massive positive and beneficial distraction to the problems in our society.

 

[bleedblue1223]

North American teams wouldn't last with a relegation model due to the bandwagon nature in North America.

We literally have leagues and teams exist and continue to exist with 0 chance of ever winning a top flight championship. This is just a silly claim to make.

 

[S E P H]

Unfortunately, EU is all about capitalism. Without any limit.

Absolutely true, but the word Union and majority of associations of it are all based on socialistic concepts. Or perhaps there are differences between NA and Europe and certain segments of Europe when it comes to Unions. Because in Poland there are very few powerful Unions and they don't use the Euro, but they're heavily part of the EU and with my Polish citizenship I can study in England right now for free if I wanted to even though I live in the USA. That's globalization for you. And why Europe has an ISIS problem.

 

[YNWA14]

Athletes benefit society more than you think, and even though some of them aren't great role models, they're people that youngsters look up to and want to be like. That's really all I can say I guess. But there are a lot of people who live to watch them play every week, and frankly we live in quite a depressing society. What they provide to society is overall a massive positive and beneficial distraction to the problems in our society.

Sure, but if Liverpool didn't exist or went away tomorrow people would be upset for a bit and then move on to the next version of entertainment. Video games, movies, television, other sports, e-sports, the internet, etc.

Anyway this is getting away from my point. I would rather see more competition than a little bit of extra money going into the pockets of only the top 5% of footballers pockets.

 

[phisherman]

We literally have leagues and teams exist and continue to exist with 0 chance of ever winning a top flight championship. This is just a silly claim to make.

If you think North America can survive such a model you would see it in the MLS already. You're being naive here.

 

[Live in the Now]

Sure, but if Liverpool didn't exist or went away tomorrow people would be upset for a bit and then move on to the next version of entertainment. Video games, movies, television, other sports, e-sports, the internet, etc.

No, the fans wouldn't move on to something else. I personally would not move on. They would form a new club most likely, and I would donate money to getting it off the ground, as would millions of other supporters. It's already happened numerous times with Wimbledon, Parma, Fiorentina, Portsmouth, Rangers, and there's way more but there's no reason to list them all.

Ultimately the game exists because of the people who watch it and depend on football as a positive outlet for their life. Anyone can mock that however they want, and it is unhealthy for people to look at football that way, but it is 100% the way it is. There would be a massive void in people's lives if the sport was to go away.

 

[bleedblue1223]

If you think North America can survive such a model you would see it in the MLS already. You're being naive here.

We don't see it in MLS because new teams have to pay an expansion fee. If a club has to pay $100-200 million, then they aren't going to want relegation. It's just impossible to implement at this point. If you pay 200 million, and next season a club comes up for free, you aren't going to like it.

FC Cincinnati in the 2nd division averages over 20k per game.

 

[Havre]

Unfortunately, EU is all about capitalism. Without any limit.

46% of GDP in the EU is spent by governments. If that is "capitalism without any limit" I do wonder how socialism would look like.

Not interested in a political discussion, but you statement is rather odd at best. Even Chomsky would find that a bit of an exaggeration.

 

[Evilo]

EU is made by bankers for bankers.
Saying the contrary after the bank saving operation of a few years ago is odd at best.

 

[Albatros]

Opinions about the EU are surely best saved for another discussion, but its founding fathers were a more diverse bunch than that. They included bankers, yes, but also communists like Altiero Spinelli. There were conservatives and there were liberals just like there still are. So what you often get are compromises that may delight no one but about everyone can live with.

 

[Evilo]

Oh for sure, the founders were hardly bankers. But it is what it is now.

But anyway indeed, it's political and not really football although it impacts it.

 

[East Coast Bias]

I don't want to continue specifically on the bandwagon topic but of course there are bandwagon fans in Europe. But there are less of it compared to North America. North American teams wouldn't last with a relegation model due to the bandwagon nature in North America.

There are only a few teams that have real passionate fans in North American sports compared to Europe and South America.

"Bandwagon fans" have zero to do with why relegation isn't in place in NA, and why it wouldn't work. Zero.

Money has everything to do with it.

 

[phisherman]

"Bandwagon fans" have zero to do with why relegation isn't in place in NA, and why it wouldn't work. Zero.

Money has everything to do with it.

Obviously it has to do with money. Because you can't attract fans if your team all of a sudden became a minor league team in the following season.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Obviously it has to do with money. Because you can't attract fans if your team all of a sudden became a minor league team in the following season.

Expansion fees, that's the reason it doesn't exist.

Go ahead, keep ignoring that minor league teams across all NA sports are still successful, despite having 0 chance of ever entering a top flight league.

 

[phisherman]

Expansion fees, that's the reason it doesn't exist.

Go ahead, keep ignoring that minor league teams across all NA sports are still successful, despite having 0 chance of ever entering a top flight league.

They're surviving because they've always been a minor league. If a major league team suddenly drops to a minor league division the perception changes on the team.

I don't know how anyone can not get that.

 

[Ceremony]

No, the fans wouldn't move on to something else. I personally would not move on. They would form a new club most likely, and I would donate money to getting it off the ground, as would millions of other supporters. It's already happened numerous times with Wimbledon, Parma, Fiorentina, Portsmouth, Rangers, and there's way more but there's no reason to list them all.

Ultimately the game exists because of the people who watch it and depend on football as a positive outlet for their life. Anyone can mock that however they want, and it is unhealthy for people to look at football that way, but it is 100% the way it is. There would be a massive void in people's lives if the sport was to go away.

Rangers died and their fans let them

 

[Jussi]

Opinions about the EU are surely best saved for another discussion, but its founding fathers were a more diverse bunch than that. They included bankers, yes, but also communists like Altiero Spinelli. There were conservatives and there were liberals just like there still are. So what you often get are compromises that may delight no one but about everyone can live with.

Also it's not accurate to say the EU is capitalism without limits when the EU is notorious for it's various directives and regulations, some good, some bad.

 

[Evilo]

Also it's not accurate to say the EU is capitalism without limits when the EU is notorious for it's various directives and regulations, some good, some bad.

always favouring free market, bankers and rich owners.

 

[Tryamkin]

No..

 

[Nalens Oga]

While I hate owners as much as anyone else, I'm a fan of the sport, not a lawyer or accountant for players.

So I don't personally care if it means less money in player pockets. All I want is a competitive league. I'd find the Bundesliga a lot more interesting for example if there were more consistent threats to Bayern or La Liga more interesting if it was tougher for Real/Barca etc.

So yes I'd be fully in favour of a cap. I just know realistically it won't happen and they'd screw it up like they did with FFP if there was one. I also don't think that it necessarily means more money to owners if the collective bargaining agreement is fair but again, they'd screw it up.