Do most people over-rate Bogosian?

Discussion in 'Winnipeg Jets' started by Daddy Longlegs, Oct 27, 2013.

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  1. Daddy Longlegs

    Daddy Longlegs Registered User

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    Just throwing it out there. I know some out there will want to lamb baste me for even suggesting it, but I think it. I'm beginning to believe more and more that his value is the highest it will ever be. He's got the tools, but no head for the game.

    Could fetch that #1 centre we need all by himself!

    Just sayin
     
  2. CorgisPer60

    CorgisPer60 Barking at the net

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    That #1 centre by the name of Matt Duchene? :)
     
  3. sting13

    sting13 Registered User

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    You say he has no head for the game. I don't agree but let's say your right for
    a second, how do you get a number 1 centre for a guy that has no head for the game?
    We are not the only people watching Jets games, teams have scouts.
    I would say they have a good idea about players from other teams.
     
  4. wpgsilver

    wpgsilver Registered User

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    He's young. He has a lot of potential to improve.
    I think his play has steadily been improving this season.
    I see ZERO reason to sell low with Bogo.
     
  5. Snot Rocket

    Snot Rocket HF anti-tank squad

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    While that might be entirely possible, it is more than likely a little hiccup in his game as a young d man with a lot on his shoulders. 12 games this year with some bad luck does not make a trend IMHO.
     
  6. Channelcat

    Channelcat Registered User

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    Its been more than 12 games in my opinion. Seems to me that before the move from Atlanta, he was already known as somewhat of a bust. I think he can be a good 3/4 defenseman, which is a very good thing to have!


    As for bringing a good #1 center? Not a chance. I don't think you get someone better than Brian Little for Bogo.
     
  7. sting13

    sting13 Registered User

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    So you are a saying he was a bust at the age of 19/20?

    You know he is only 23 years old.
     
  8. Rook37

    Rook37 Registered User

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    I don't know, honestly. He was playing with and nursing an injury last season, and it was shortened to boot. The way he's been playing this season has certainly not been what you'd hope for with that contract.

    However, he is young, he is really good and he has plenty of room to improve and if we give him time to hone his game, I think it will pay off.

    And if we're giving up on him because of poor play, I don't think other teams are going to see that as particularly encouraging with regards to his trade value.

    Basically no, I don't think his value is near what it will be - but I do realize how easily I could end up being wrong. I just think it's a matter of time til he reverts to the GoGoBogo :)D) we've seen before, and that he's only going to get better from there. Maybe I'm wearing Jets-coloured glasses.
     
  9. Whileee

    Whileee Registered User

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    I'd like to see Bogo over an extended time frame playing in a consistent position and with a somewhat consistent D partner. I think he will then be able to play more consistently and more aggressively. This year has been pretty weird for him, thanks to injuries, shaky D play and Noel's penchant for mixing and matching lines and D pairings.
     
  10. ihadtochangethename

    ihadtochangethename Registered User

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    it just seems like something is off, like something is holding him back. I'd be a liar if i said that it doesn't scare me. We need Bogo, he's a humongous part of the club, a leader-just look at Trouba's instagram. Something is completely off, and he hid his wrist injury until it couldn't be contained anymore...then he had to say something about it.
     
  11. PaperRockChamp

    PaperRockChamp Registered User

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    Bogo needs a team where he would play 30 minutes a game. Byfug is holding Bogo back (I am not complaining). Bogosian has unlimited energy/stamina with limited outlets. He's got at least 2-3 years before everything comes together. The same goes for this team.
     
  12. buggs

    buggs nanoo nanoo

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    :biglaugh:
     
  13. Tom ServoMST3K

    Tom ServoMST3K Hockey Professor in Training

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    What's your excuse?
    He has played underneath my (admittedly high) expectations this year
     
  14. JetsFan815

    JetsFan815 Tier 2 fan

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    Obviously Bogo is not going to get you a #1 center. Maybe a couple of years ago when Duchene's stock was in the toilet but not anymore.

    As to the question of whether he's overrated. I would say he is to some extent esp when you compare him to the defensemen drafted right around him in his draft Doughty, Peiterangelo and Karlson. He is far behind them but I'd say he's on par with other defensemen from his draft like John Carlson and Michael Del Zotto. His offensive game hasn't unfortunately progressed as I would have hoped infact if this trend continues it might even have regressed slightly but he has shown that he is at worst a 3-4 defensemen which you can't really complain about. However hindsight being 20-20 most people would have prefered that the Thrashers draft either Peiterangelo or Erik Karlsson with that 3rd overall pick.
     
  15. tacogeoff

    tacogeoff Registered User

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    I dont think Bogo is overated on this board at all. He is a very young Dman whom contributes to the team quite well in our defensive end. He may not be a gifted offensive defenseman but I dont believe he was ever pegged as one. Dmen imo take a longer time to mature than forwards and he is just going to get better and better. Love his game and love his passion for it.
     
  16. Gnova

    Gnova CowboysR^2

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    His play this year definitely brings whether he is overrated into question.

    Bogosian seems to be dependent on the confidence he has in his D partner.
    He looked good in the past paired with Hainsey and has only really looked good this year with Enstrom.
    I'm hoping that they keep the current Buff-Clit Bogo-Enstrom pairing together. Enstrom is a smart player and knows where he needs to be to give Bogosians the most support and Bogosians is willing to let Enstrom carry the puck out of the zone.
    I really we the Jets still had Hainsey in the lineup so Buff-Enstrom could be kept together.

    The other thing that has hurt his confidence this year is that it seems eveytime he tried to be physical and hit someone he got called for a penalty. Buff has had the same problems, he can't really hit people because he is getting penalties for clean hits.

    It's still early in the season. Loads of time to get things sorted out with his game.
     
  17. Channelcat

    Channelcat Registered User

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    You make an interesting point that hasnt been discussed much. Defensemen seem very unsure of what they are allowed to do right now in terms of physical play. What is legal? Whats a penalty? Im not even sure if the officials know.
     
  18. KingBogo

    KingBogo Admitted Homer

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    IMO Bogosian is probably underrated by at least as many people overrate him. Believing he could fetch a #1 C by himself is actually overrating him by a fair amount. The only player another GM would even have a conversation about a #1 C would be Kane, and he would have to be added to. In all honesty no one trades a young/in prime #1 C.

    IMO Bogosian is a solid #3 defenseman. He is still very young by defenseman standards so there still exists some potential. In my view he has the physical tools to be a top pairing guy and will probably get there one day. But he probably does lack the hockey sense to be a true #1 such as a Weber.

    Despite a huge giveaway earlier in the season to Perry that cost a game and a little bad puck luck he is still second on the team in +/- to Ladd. He plays 22-25 minutes a night often against the opponents top players and brings a lot of passion to the team. At $5 M per he is probably a little over paid now, but by year 7 when the cap is likely pushing $100 M he will be under paid so that averages out.

    IMO Bogosian's value to the team is further enhanced because of the make up of our defense. Both our top 2 defenseman are not true # 1's in the traditional sense. Buff and Enstrom are both offensively gifted but lack in other areas compared to a Weber for example. We have a couple young studs in Trouba and soon Morrissey coming but you need a veteran guy for them to play with and guide them. Interesting both Trouba and Morrissey have singled out how Bogo has taken them under his wing and make them feel at home.

    In sum, if you dump Bogo for less than full value this team will regret it for years.
     
  19. scelaton

    scelaton Registered User

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    I think the OP is a legitimate one, as there are a lot of people (mostly on the main board) questioning his ceiling and hockey IQ.
    I think it's fair to say he has not yet shown the hockey smarts of Doughty or Pietrangelo, but that a pretty high standard to meet. OTOH, hockey smarts can sometimes be learned over time, with experience, repetition, good coaching and motivation. Bogo's physical assets cannot be learned.
    As others have pointed out, he is relatively young--the second youngest D on the team, younger than Postma and Redmond, who have recently been considered "prospects".
    As for his performance this season, it's too early to judge. He has had some bad puck luck, played on his off side, but looks like he's shrugging that off. His points, TOI (and +/- , w apologies to Garret) are still top-tier, despite being crowded out of the PP by Buff.
    I'd trade him (and add) for an emerging top-line C, (eg Duchene 1 year ago or Seguin), if such a deal were possible, simply because of our team's strength at RHD and weakness down the middle. But nothing less.
     
  20. Analyst365

    Analyst365 Registered User

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    Doesn't need to play well. He got his contract.
     
  21. JetsHomer

    JetsHomer Registered User

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    Bogosian is currently playing the 40th most minutes amongst defensemen, while being a plus 4 (tied for 28th amongst D). There is only one defensemen in the league that has more shots than him and also has no goals is Byfuglien.

    Last year a lot of people thought Bogosian was our best D. I think Enstrom was a little better last year, but due to injury I have no problem giving it to Bogosian. He's had a rough start to the year, but I think it's been a bit overblown. I was re-watching some games and he's making a lot of good plays, he's just having some really visible mistakes and I think people are thinking he's been playing worse than he is. He's deflected in a few shots but that wasn't really his fault. Personally I think it's just a bit of bad luck to start the year, once he finds some puck luck his numbers will look better.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2013
  22. hockeyarena

    hockeyarena is a great game

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    If you are ranking teams based on their player's hockey IQ we are definitely near the bottom. Bogo and Buff have all the talent in the world but I agree with the poster, their idiotic giveaways cost us a lot. Everyone is the goat now and then but when it happens every week then you have a problem. Hopefully it's just growing pains of a young team.
     
  23. Kane9Swag

    Kane9Swag Registered User

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    Bogo needs to straighten up before getting those numbers. He had a *almost* costly turnover yesterday that could have gotten Stars a goal.
     
  24. Flair Hay

    Flair Hay Registered User

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    I see him as a Kevin Bieksa or Brent Seabrook level in terms of defenseman. He'll never have the mind of a #1 defenseman. But give him a super smart partner like the other two and you maximize what he can become.

    Hamhuis and Keith make Bieksa and Seabrook much more effective because they need to keep their game simple to succeed. Yet give them a partner of similar style and IceQ and they will struggle and make bone headed mistakes trying to do too much. I think Bogo has equal potential to Seabrook (if he plays like last year consistently he'd already be there) and can be better than Bieksa.

    That's not worth the ridiculous "future #1 defenseman" packages we see on the trade forums or whatever. So in that sense he's overrated, yeah. That said he's a useful piece at a contract that's about worth what he is so there's absolutely no reason to trade him away.

    Trouba, now that's a different story and even Bogo knows it :D
     
  25. sipowicz

    sipowicz The Original

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    Wheeler gave him a puck in a real bad spot, Ray Bourque would have had trouble with that bonehead pass.
     

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