Speculation: Do loan trades exist?

[Stive Morgan]

Arizona traded Antoine Vermette to Chicago at the 2015 deadline for Dahlbeck + a 1st and then signed him the following off-season

 

[Charlie Conway]

I don't think this is correct. The Blues didn't trade for his rights, he just signed as a UFA. Doug Weight did the same thing with the Blues and the Canes.

They did. The Thrashers traded Tkachuk's rights back to St. Louis a week before free agency and got back their conditional 1st from the initial trade.

St. Louis Blues acquire rights to centre Keith Tkachuk from Atlanta Thrashers

Blues reach two-year agreement with F Tkachuk

 

[MarkusKetterer]

Loan trades don’t exist. A player is not allowed to be traded back during the same season, if they have a contract.

The NHL season is considered done after the awards ceremony.

A team that traded away someone who then becomes a UFA or goes on waivers are allowed to go to the team that originally traded them, because that’s not a trade.

That is why Jeff Shantz who was traded from the Flames to Colorado then back to the Flames was not allowed to play after the second trade.

 

[BurgoShark]

Loan trades don’t exist. A player is not allowed to be traded back during the same season, if they have a contract.

The NHL season is considered done after the awards ceremony.

A team that traded away someone who then becomes a UFA or goes on waivers are allowed to go to the team that originally traded them, because that’s not a trade.

That is why Jeff Shantz who was traded from the Flames to Colorado then back to the Flames was not allowed to play after the second trade.

Could two non-playoff (or eliminated) teams hypothetically trade players with multi-year deals during the playoffs, and then reverse the trade on day one of free agency? E.g. team wants to protect 8F/2D in the ED, trades with a team who wants to protect 6F/4D. Trade F for D so both teams can go 7-3-1, and then give the players back later.

Alternatively this could be done for bonuses to be paid by a different team, like the example someone used for OEL. E.g.

Detroit trades Frans Neilsen to Vancouver during the playoffs. Detroit trades Neilsen and Beagle to Detroit after bonuses have been paid. Vancouver just paid $2.5m to remove Beagle’s $3m cap hit. Detroit gets Beagle while saving $300k.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

Could two non-playoff (or eliminated) teams hypothetically trade players with multi-year deals during the playoffs, and then reverse the trade on day one of free agency? E.g. team wants to protect 8F/2D in the ED, trades with a team who wants to protect 6F/4D. Trade F for D so both teams can go 7-3-1, and then give the players back later.

Alternatively this could be done for bonuses to be paid by a different team, like the example someone used for OEL. E.g.

Detroit trades Frans Neilsen to Vancouver during g the playoffs. Detroit trades Neilsen and Beagle to Detroit after bonuses have been paid. Vancouver just paid $2.5m to remove Beagle’s $3m cap hit. Detroit gets Beagle while saving $300k.

I’m sure the NHL would nix that. Especially seeing Seattle just paid $650M for a franchise. They’re gonna want that team to be good, instead of 1992-93 Senators good.

The rule is in place for... *shrugs*. The Shantz trade was before the cap

 

[Jumptheshark]

Sure, Oilers could then 'loan' McDavid to OTT every time they play Flames.

nay, Loan him to every team who plays IN TO

 

[Seachd]

A player is not allowed to be traded back during the same season, if they have a contract.

This isn’t true. In fact, the CBA contains an actual example of a team being able to trade back for the same player, in the same season, that they traded earlier. It just can’t happen if salary is retained for the player in one of the trades.

When you say Shantz, do you mean Dean McAmmond? He was traded to Colorado and then back to Calgary later the same season. The reason he was ineligible to play after that isn’t just because he was reacquired by the same team. It’s because the original trade was within four weeks of the waiver draft, and the rule was that players in those trades can’t be reacquired, as a way of prevent teams from hiding players from being claimed.

The NHL approved the trade without realizing the rule was broken. When they found out, they allowed Calgary to keep him, but wouldn’t let him play.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

This isn’t true. In fact, the CBA contains an actual example of a team being able to trade back for the same player, in the same season, that they traded earlier. It just can’t happen if salary is retained for the player in one of the trades.

When you say Shantz, do you mean Dean McAmmond? He was traded to Colorado and then back to Calgary later the same season. The reason he was ineligible to play after that isn’t just because he was reacquired by the same team. It’s because the original trade was within four weeks of the waiver draft, and the rule was that players in those trades can’t be reacquired, as a way of prevent teams from hiding players from being claimed.

The NHL approved the trade without realizing the rule was broken. When they found out, they allowed Calgary to keep him, but wouldn’t let him play.

Haha yea I couldn’t remember if it was Shantz or McAmmond. And seeing I have no recollection of McAmmond in an Avs uniform, but I do of Shantz, I went with him. I do remember them being acquired from the Flames in the same trade (Regehr was in there in one of the trades)

 

[BeaverSports]

At one point, if I recall, there was a clause in the CBA that you couldn’t trade a player back for a full calendar year. I’m not sure if that’s still the case.

 

[T_Cage]

There’s nothing in the cba that prevents it....but the NHL tends to lay the hammer down on teams that get too creative, so u likely won’t see it happen

Eg: The Maple Leafs and Olaf Kolzig

 

[Brodeur]

At one point, if I recall, there was a clause in the CBA that you couldn’t trade a player back for a full calendar year. I’m not sure if that’s still the case.

Quick scan and there's a one year rule in the CBA about reacquiring a player if there was salary retention in the original trade. Article 50.5(e)(iii.C) of the CBA:

Under no circumstances may a Club:

(3)
Reacquire within one (1) calendar year from the date of that Retained Salary Transaction an SPC the Averaged Amount and Player Salary and Bonuses of which that Club agreed to retain as part of a Retained Salary Transaction;
Illustration: If Club A Trades a Player to Club B and retains 30% of the Averaged Amount of such Player's SPC in a Retained Salary Transaction, Club A cannot reacquire such Player's SPC within one (1) calendar year from the date of the Trade. However, if such Player's Retained 273 ARTICLE 50 50.5-50.5 Salary SPC expires or is otherwise terminated prior to one (1) calendar year from the date of the Trade such that it no longer exists, Club A may reacquire the Player since the Retained Salary SPC no longer exists.

I may be mistaken, but I don't think there's anything prohibiting a player from being reacquired if there was no salary retention.

And then there's the special case about players being traded during a year leading up to an Expansion Draft. The league didn't want a team to potentially stash a player on somebody else's roster and have them be reacquired immediately after the draft.

 

[mouser]

Loan trades don’t exist. A player is not allowed to be traded back during the same season, if they have a contract.

The NHL season is considered done after the awards ceremony.

A team that traded away someone who then becomes a UFA or goes on waivers are allowed to go to the team that originally traded them, because that’s not a trade.

That is why Jeff Shantz who was traded from the Flames to Colorado then back to the Flames was not allowed to play after the second trade.

Maybe you're thinking of Dean McAmmond rather then Jeff Shantz?

Either way, the relevant rule was due either to expansion or waiver drafts at the time. A team that traded away a player before the waiver draft (e.g. McAmmond) could not reacquire the player that season. This was to prevent teams from avoiding the waiver draft by temporarily stashing players on other teams.

There is no blanket rule that a team cannot reacquire a traded player in the same season.