Do Leafs have the most underachieving "Elite" core of the 21st Century?

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    265

DuklaNation

Registered User
Aug 26, 2004
5,682
1,544
Get real. If this isn't a trolling thread, what is exactly? There are tons of examples of similar teams.
 

lowol

Registered User
Nov 27, 2006
267
186
The Leafs are too early in their star-studded window to get the title - for instance the Caps would've had a stronger case over more years before they ultimately killed that narrative. I was feeling a lot more confident about the Caps than this Leafs core though.
 

HanSolo

DJ Crazy Times
Apr 7, 2008
96,405
30,657
Las Vegas
Still too early to put them on the same level of underachievement as the Sharks since they're so young but they're getting there. They've choked harder though.

This was probably the first series where the Leafs have actually been favored to win. And I guess Columbus last year... might change my vote.

There's nothing bigger than getting reverse swept with a 3-0 series lead by an 8th seed. Even if that 8th seed won the cup.
 

DaveG

Noted Jerk
Apr 7, 2003
51,016
47,853
Winston-Salem NC
Trick question, because their core isn't elite.
Disagree, the bigger problem is that their core is so badly overpaid that they don't have room to build around quality secondary players. They're going to have to find a way to move one of their forwards and add some legit quality defensive and 2nd line depth in the process.
 

WarriorofTime

Registered User
Jul 3, 2010
27,684
15,627
Disagree, the bigger problem is that their core is so badly overpaid that they don't have room to build around quality secondary players. They're going to have to find a way to move one of their forwards and add some legit quality defensive and 2nd line depth in the process.
Yes their collection of forwards is seriously impressive but when it's both overpaid and an imbalanced roster, that creates two pretty big strikes. Strike three is if they don't have the mental fortitude to step up in the postseason and overcome tough situations, they're young enough that I won't say that definitively yet...
 

ClydeLee

Registered User
Mar 23, 2012
11,713
5,263
There's been numerous supposed to be elite cores that were the next Pens/Hawks and not done anything. Until last year the Lightning were on that path of underachieving. People really need to manage expectations of how long it takes to recover and rebuild out of a tank situation.

But the Oilers, Avs, collection of Sabers picks were supposed to be that and it never formed. (Avs being when they were still considered the Duchene, EJ, Oreilly, & Statsny core pieces team)
 

WTFetus

Marlov
Mar 12, 2009
17,904
3,558
San Francisco
This was thier first upset and they still have Marner and Matthews for 3 years don't they? I think the Sharks were still worse since in basically all of their losses they were considered the favorite.

Since when? The "2010s Sharks" only choked in 13/14 (3-0 lead, but Cup Winners). Every other season they lost to teams higher in the standings. If you're reaching and counting 08-09, then that's still only 2 post-seasons in over a decade.
 

ClydeLee

Registered User
Mar 23, 2012
11,713
5,263
Since when? The "2010s Sharks" only choked in 13/14 (3-0 lead, but Cup Winners). Every other season they lost to teams higher in the standings. If you're reaching and counting 08-09, then that's still only 2 post-seasons in over a decade.
Specifically just 2010 itself they were the top seed, got swept in the WCF.
 

WTFetus

Marlov
Mar 12, 2009
17,904
3,558
San Francisco
Specifically just 2010 itself they were the top seed, got swept in the WCF.

My fault for missing the standings there. But they were only 1 point ahead of Chicago in the regular season. Sweep or not, I wouldn't call a loss in the WCF to the eventual Cup winners a choke.
 

Canada is best bro

Registered User
Jun 5, 2021
95
44
Toronto
We’d probably sooner see the Sabres get out of their rebuild after they rebuilded their current rebuild and make the 2029 SCF than watch the leafs get out of the first round with that core. Very underwhelming and as said before, the 2010 sharks are a dynasty compared to them.
 
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Juxta Position

Registered User
Jul 2, 2006
2,151
1,452
If you did a poll:
Who's the best centre on the planet. Eichel comes up... what? 5th? 7th? 10th?
When does Reino come up? 50th? 70th?
Now do D, when does Dahlin come up? 50th/60th?
Risto? 100th?

Now, if you did Toronto:
Matthews according to HF is like the second best centre in the world.
Tavares is another top 10 centre on the planet.
Marner? Top 5 RW without a question.
Nylander? Another top 20 RW right?
Rielly? Well, he's clearly top 10.
Brodie? He's an underrated #1 guy in the league.
Freddie Andersen? He's a top 10 goalie in the league most years.

Just because guys are picked early, doesn't make them elite. I think Toronto's biggest issue is they're not as great of a team as everyone keeps making them out to be. They beat up on teams that are, and were really bad. The second best team in the division had a sub500 record against playoff teams for Christ's sake. I honestly think under regular circumstances that they'd be a wildcard in 2021.

I mean, late 2000's Sharks; the '08-'17 Caps would also get my vote as well. They had multiple 115+ point seasons. During that time frame they missed the playoffs once, never made it to a conference final, and were bounced out in the first round 3 times. Those are those years where Ovi's scoring 50 goals, Mike Green's a PPG defender, Backstrom is going ppg+, Alex Semin is tearing it up with these ppg+ seasons, you got the young Varlamov seasons in there, you have the massive Holtby years.

Those rankings right there is why there is even a thread about this. The problem that comes in with the Leafs is not that they underachieved relative to their roster, it's that they underachieved relative the insane and completely unwarranted hype coming from a very biased media.

It's in the media's best interest (particularly in Canada) to generate excitment for the Leafs, which in turn causes people to be more invested in those media outlets sites owned by Bell and Rogers. Being that the only media outlets in Canada TSN (Bell) Sportsnet (Rogers) are also part owners of the Leafs, all those rabid fans they've whipped up, by setting unrealistic expectations, flock to those sites to consume as much Leaf content as possible, which then generates more income. It's just smart business by Bell and Rogers. Hype your own product as much as possible.

The downside to that is, if the Leafs don't do well, the fans go into panic mode because they've been fed all year by that biased media about how great this team is, when the reality is that the Leafs are good, but not great, and should not have been considered a true contender at any point this year.
 
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Jimmy Firecracker

Fire Sheldon.
Mar 30, 2010
35,546
34,097
Mississauga
Yes, by a mile. Or maybe not, depending on how you define “elite core.” I’d imagine an actual elite core wouldn’t include a guy who hasn’t scored a goal in 18 playoff games.
 

Samsquanch

Raging Bull Squatch
Nov 28, 2008
8,224
4,965
Sudbury
I voted no because I feel like a lot better teams than the Leafs have lost in the playoffs. I guess there is an argument to be made that having no 1st round wins puts them in a special bad category though, its true.

But I always felt like they had some glaring holes on D, and a bottom half of the league starting goalie. And they have never played a consistent season of hockey without their warts showing at several points.

Leafs fans will lambast you every year for doubting their greatness, and for taking their season highs with a huge grain of salt because you cant just ignore all of their low moments (which are usually plentiful - take David Ayers and his Zamboni for example. Or the blown 5-1 game to the Sens. Huge losing streaks and turmoil ect, ect). This season was as close as they got, and the end result was worse than any Leaf fans worst possible nightmare would have been, and we saw the CN Tower rocking the blue blanc and rougue...

But imo, they were never close to being the team to beat in their conference. They are what they are.
 
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WarriorofTime

Registered User
Jul 3, 2010
27,684
15,627
Asking where they would rank on a HF Poll is faulty logic. HF has more Leaf fans than anything else (until they postseason when the majority scatter after they lose in the first round) so they get tons of homer votes in all of the "Player Ranking" polls which skews the results.
 

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