Do Leafs have the most underachieving "Elite" core of the 21st Century?

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

This was supposed to be a poll yesterday but was merged in main thread.

3 elite top line forwards. A top 3 goalscoring C (pacing 60 goals this year), another top line C, and a top 10 playmaker in the game. A defender finishing 5th in Norris votes 2 years ago. Another arguable top line forward. Goaltending not the biggest issue in half the series(this year solid number 1 and in few series Andersen was solid). 5 years of not a single round advancement(3 with current core) and losing series 3-1 to the worst playoff team in the NHL this year(statistically). Last year shutout 2 times in 5 games in play-in tourney.

Great regular season success, but playoff wise.. is this the worst we have seen from any team with an elite core in the 2000s and onwards in terms of playoff success to start? There is still a lot of time for this core though.

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[VoluntaryDom]

haven't yet passed the early 2010s Sharks

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

haven't yet passed the early 2010s Sharks

They passed the first round in 2010, 2011, 2013; made finals in 2016.

Not really a competition; SJ a dynasty in relation.

 

[Selzoons]

Still too early to put them on the same level of underachievement as the Sharks since they're so young but they're getting there. They've choked harder though.

This was probably the first series where the Leafs have actually been favored to win. And I guess Columbus last year... might change my vote.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

They passed the first round in 2010, 2011, 2013; made finals in 2016.

Not really a competition; SJ a dynasty in relation.

relative to expectations though.

toronto hasn't been favored in that many of these first round series, this one was the first one that was a big upset

 

[Stealth JD]

there's nothing elite about their core. are they more elite than the Panthers? I'm thinking not.

 

[King 88]

Series against Boston never really a favorite last two years horrible choking so imo need to be themselves for few years more.

 

[JoelWarlord]

No because this year is the only real major upset. This year is really the first time they had the defence sorted out with Brodie, they had Campbell who was a bit of a question mark but ended up having a fantastic series, and they had the right group of old guys (although there were definitely some quibbles with their scoring depth). They should have absolutely dismantled the Habs and they blew it, but I don't think that compares to the Sharks who were the league's elite for 15+ years with no cup to show for it.

I think it's just overhype for the seasons before this one. The Leafs weren't this heavyweight contender team in those years, they were somewhere around the 10th-12th best team in the league and they lost twice to a top 5 team in Boston, and then last season the Leafs and Columbus had the exact same pts% in the regular season. If you look at those losses and assume the Leafs were the protagonists of the NHL as heavyweight contenders learning their lessons then yeah, you'll see it as huge underperformance. But in reality I'm just not sure that a top 10 team losing to a top 5 team twice, and a low teens quality team in Columbus is this huge choke.

Losing to the Habs? Yeah. This is a bad one.

 

[bobholly39]

No. Too soon imo.

 

[BCNate]

No they don't. They have a terribly constructed roster and an excellent core.

 

[Hockeyholic]

The 2017-2020 Saints fit this to a tee. Most wins in a four year span without making a Super Bowl.

Historically, maybe the 90-96 Flames.

 

[KidLine93]

This was thier first upset and they still have Marner and Matthews for 3 years don't they? I think the Sharks were still worse since in basically all of their losses they were considered the favorite.

 

[GermanSpitfire]

Early to Mid 2000’s Senators.

looking back at those rosters i’m shocked there wasn’t a cup.

 

[King Karl]

Early to Mid 2000’s Senators.

looking back at those rosters i’m shocked there wasn’t a cup.

It's all Jeff Friesen's fault.

 

[Crow]

I’m on the fence. Taken literally yes their core has underachieved at a high level but it’s not as if a core alone is often enough for a team to win a cup. I also have my doubts that their core is elite. It’s kind of top heavy. So do I just judge their core against other deeper cores with more players? Not sure, but I think no not really. Other teams have had deeper cores.

How many players is a core I guess would be my question? and if the answer is it varies, then my answer to this question is no.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

This is premature, they still have a lot of time on their hands. Matthews is 23 years old, he has a decade of great hockey ahead of him if he continues to train hard to improve himself.

This is the kind of thread you can make about a team of older guys like the Sharks who failed to win anything with multiple superstar players.

 

[thadd]

LOL @ So many people voting yes. Have people forgotten the Sharks so easily?

haven't yet passed the early 2010s Sharks

The Sharks... what they accomplished in the playoffs was a complete joke. They had weapons of mass destruction at centers, wing, on the blue line and they always had a goalie who was considered good enough for a cup run.

Looking back at the decisions Toronto has made... I find it interesting how they have brought in so many known players who've never won a cup.

Tavares never did anything in the playoffs with the Islanders. It's easy to point out that he didn't have a lot to work with, but the Islanders ended up faring better without him. Not stating that as a knock against him. I was really high on Tavares before he was drafted and I thought he was really going to be the next great generational player.

Marleau came in to provide leadership... and he never did anything in the playoffs.
And then Thorton.
And Spezza... who was legit great in the playoffs.... also never won a cup.

I know all of these guys signed because they always dreamed of playing for the Leafs and Thorton and Spezza are playing for peanuts, but at the same time I can't help but find it weird how they brought in all these vets that always choked in the playoffs.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

No, simply because I don't feel they're actually nearly as good as Leaf fans & the media make them out to be.

 

[belair]

Better question: Are buzzwords like 'elite' and 'core' overused in hockey discussions?

Deep teams win championships. Pretty tough to be deep when you spend more than half of your payroll on your top four players.

 

[Sky04]

Florida's core hasn't won a playoff round either and they only make the playoffs every other year so no.

 

[Sky04]

haven't yet passed the early 2010s Sharks

Losing in the CF and SCF is not he same as losing in the first round continously. SJ's "underachieving" is not winning a Cup, the Leafs and Panther's are trying to do something 29 other teams have done at least once in the last 16 years.

 

[CanadienShark]

I think last night pushed them over ~2010s Sharks. At least the Sharks made deep runs.

No issue with anyone voting Sharks though.

 

[Goomba]

theirs nothing elite about their core. are they more elite than the Panthers? I'm thinking not.

I mean, Auston Matthews is pretty f***ing elite lol

 

[MattMartin]

Early to Mid 2000’s Senators.

looking back at those rosters i’m shocked there wasn’t a cup.

This is dead on accurate.

 

[BruinsBtn]

The Leafs just aren't that good. Aside from in the joke division, they've never sniffed the top of the division. They were 8th in the east last year and that's around where they'll be next year.

The Bruins early in Joe Thornton's career choked worse with Thornton, Samsonov, Guerin, Rolston and Murray.

Of course, they figured out eventually that they were never going to win with Thornton and made the tough decision to deal him. I don't think the Leafs are ready to admit they have the same kind of team yet.