Distribution of Salary

[Fogelhund]

It's my perception that the current CBA and Salary Cap, has lead to a situation where the middle income earners are being squeezed out. I have no data to back it up, and wonder if there is some available. It feels like a polarization of income is happening in the NHL. The stars get very well paid, and their salaries are increasing at a rate much higher than the cap inflation, while the rest are stagnating, with a larger percentage of players earning low dollar contracts. I'd love to see if there is data available to either prove, or disprove my perception. Thanks in Advance.

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[kgboomer]

The stars get very well paid, and their salaries are increasing at a rate much higher than the cap inflation, while the rest are stagnating, with a larger percentage of players earning low dollar contracts.

Well that's how the stars feel. It's a business and people are paying big money to see them play, not the grinders.

 

[tony d]

The stars are a big part of the team, I think it's only right that the situation that is happening now is what's happening.

 

[edog37]

It's my perception that the current CBA and Salary Cap, has lead to a situation where the middle income earners are being squeezed out. I have no data to back it up, and wonder if there is some available. It feels like a polarization of income is happening in the NHL. The stars get very well paid, and their salaries are increasing at a rate much higher than the cap inflation, while the rest are stagnating, with a larger percentage of players earning low dollar contracts. I'd love to see if there is data available to either prove, or disprove my perception. Thanks in Advance.

League minimum is currently $650K. These guys make plenty of money as is.

 

[Fogelhund]

Well that's how the stars feel. It's a business and people are paying big money to see them play, not the grinders.

I think you've missed the point. The grinders, they've always been poorly played. I think it's the middle tier guys who are being reduced greatly, to a more polarized situation.

But then, it seems like nobody has any evidence anyway.

 

[TheWhiskeyThief]

The opportunity costs for the plug at the end of the bench is the same as the best player on the planet.

If I was in the PA, I’d be interested in more wage compression, not less.

 

[LadyStanley]

League minimum is currently $650K. These guys make plenty of money as is.

So last year . Minimum salary is now $700k (this season and next; if CBA not extended, 21-22 will have minimum of $750k).

Average NHL "career" is five years. So $$ is only available for a short period.

 

[cheswick]

It's my perception that the current CBA and Salary Cap, has lead to a situation where the middle income earners are being squeezed out. I have no data to back it up, and wonder if there is some available. It feels like a polarization of income is happening in the NHL. The stars get very well paid, and their salaries are increasing at a rate much higher than the cap inflation, while the rest are stagnating, with a larger percentage of players earning low dollar contracts. I'd love to see if there is data available to either prove, or disprove my perception. Thanks in Advance.

Quick and dirty using excel. Both are under the salary cap, albeit 2011 was under previous CBA. Used 30 buckets for each histogram. It appears that your perception may be off. Looks like 2019 has a higher mid range distribution than 2011 did.

 

[David Dennison]

So last year . Minimum salary is now $700k (this season and next; if CBA not extended, 21-22 will have minimum of $750k).

Average NHL "career" is five years. So $$ is only available for a short period.

I also dislike when people use the 'sticker' salary when complaining about athletes earning too much money, they face much higher taxes (state and local taxes especially, and they lost the deduction for those in the Trump tax cut) and expenses (agent and escrow are the big ones) than your average joe. Their take home pay is probably closer to half of what their gross is. I know, world's smallest violin and all, but if you are playing in a high cost of living area like the Bay or LA or NYC and are earning the minimum, you probably aren't able to save a ton of it.

 

[edog37]

So last year . Minimum salary is now $700k (this season and next; if CBA not extended, 21-22 will have minimum of $750k).

Average NHL "career" is five years. So $$ is only available for a short period.

regardless, still a lot more money than the average person sees in their lifetime....

 

[edog37]

I also dislike when people use the 'sticker' salary when complaining about athletes earning too much money, they face much higher taxes (state and local taxes especially, and they lost the deduction for those in the Trump tax cut) and expenses (agent and escrow are the big ones) than your average joe. Their take home pay is probably closer to half of what their gross is. I know, world's smallest violin and all, but if you are playing in a high cost of living area like the Bay or LA or NYC and are earning the minimum, you probably aren't able to save a ton of it.

They chose their profession, so part of it is being smart with your money accordingly.

 

[PuckInTheNards]

It's my perception that the current CBA and Salary Cap, has lead to a situation where the middle income earners are being squeezed out. I have no data to back it up, and wonder if there is some available. It feels like a polarization of income is happening in the NHL. The stars get very well paid, and their salaries are increasing at a rate much higher than the cap inflation, while the rest are stagnating, with a larger percentage of players earning low dollar contracts. I'd love to see if there is data available to either prove, or disprove my perception. Thanks in Advance.

I have had exactly the same thought. My suspicion is that this will lead to disunity among the players during the next CBA negotiation, which would lead to the NHL owners steamrolling the NHLPA. I'm very interested to see how it all plays out.

 

[PuckInTheNards]

Quick and dirty using excel. Both are under the salary cap, albeit 2011 was under previous CBA. Used 30 buckets for each histogram. It appears that your perception may be off. Looks like 2019 has a higher mid range distribution than 2011 did.

No kidding? Very good to know.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

regardless, still a lot more money than the average person sees in their lifetime....

Because what pro athletes make is somehow supposed to be related to what Joe Fan makes, and their on-ice and after-ice lives are totally comparable to Joe Fan's life.

For say $1 million per year for 5 years [before taxes, agent fees, union dues, etc.] NHL players log 82 games having to keep themselves in fantastic shape, able to play at a high level, training during the offseason, and making whatever public appearances the team and/or its sponsors require, all while under the relative microscope being unable to go most places without being instantly recognized and mobbed. If you never made it to the NHL, you're doing it in the minors for say $40-125K, perhaps a little more.

Did I mention 82 games? That's if (A) you're good enough to play all 82, and (B) healthy enough to do it. If you're not good enough, you're sitting in the press box instead of getting to do what you trained much of your life to do. [Or, you can get shipped to the minors - but we'll cover that shortly.] If you're injured, there's all the work to rehab and get back into shape. If injuries are serious, it's weeks or months being unable to play and having to recuperate - and, depending on the injury, it's potentially something that affects your life after you're done playing. Ask guys dealing with PCS, dementia, Alzheimers, and/or CTE due to head trauma from playing hockey if all the money the player made makes up for the loss of quality of life. Well, if they remember anything. Probably ask their families if the money he made makes up for the loss of quality of life.

If you're under about 27, you get zero control over where you play - and even after 27, you may get zero control over it. Trades? Waivers? Assignments to/from the minors? Maybe even going to Europe to snag a contract? All part of the life of some [most?] hockey players at some point. If you have a family [most guys want one], you get to pick up your family and move them to a new town, or you leave them behind for 8-9 months of the year perhaps getting a couple weeks in total scattered across the schedule where you get to go back and see them [on your dime]. Want to see your kids grow up? Tough crap, let the wife deal with all that stuff; hopefully she's strong enough to deal with that without you - otherwise, ... all that sweet cash coming in on the 1st and 15th makes up for not seeing your kids grow up and your wife saying, "I can't do this," right?

Joe Fan? He can guzzle beer and munch on whatever snacks are in the cupboard while sitting on the couch screaming at the players, with his biggest worries being whether he'll get into an accident on the way to work [if he even thinks about that] or getting hurt in some freak accident on the job [which he also likely doesn't think about] and what he's going to do years from now when he finally retires. He doesn't worry about finding out tomorrow, "we're sending you to Cleveland / Albuquerque / Walla Walla to work, here's a plane ticket, pack your shit up because you're due there in 24 hours" knowing that he could get there and find out a day, a week, a month, a year later he's going somewhere else.

It is so trite and naive to talk about pro athletes and their salaries as if more money makes everything better and solves any problem they might ever have. They have different issues that you and I will never be able to relate to, and "make lots of money" certainly doesn't cure them. It really doesn't cure it for guys like Joe Murphy, Johan Franzen, Keith Primeau, and countless others who have dealt with [and still have to deal with] life-altering injuries and problems that affect their lives, or the families of those players who also have to deal with the issues those guys have that affect them and everyone around them.

 

[edog37]

Because what pro athletes make is somehow supposed to be related to what Joe Fan makes, and their on-ice and after-ice lives are totally comparable to Joe Fan's life.

For say $1 million per year for 5 years [before taxes, agent fees, union dues, etc.] NHL players log 82 games having to keep themselves in fantastic shape, able to play at a high level, training during the offseason, and making whatever public appearances the team and/or its sponsors require, all while under the relative microscope being unable to go most places without being instantly recognized and mobbed. If you never made it to the NHL, you're doing it in the minors for say $40-125K, perhaps a little more.

Did I mention 82 games? That's if (A) you're good enough to play all 82, and (B) healthy enough to do it. If you're not good enough, you're sitting in the press box instead of getting to do what you trained much of your life to do. [Or, you can get shipped to the minors - but we'll cover that shortly.] If you're injured, there's all the work to rehab and get back into shape. If injuries are serious, it's weeks or months being unable to play and having to recuperate - and, depending on the injury, it's potentially something that affects your life after you're done playing. Ask guys dealing with PCS, dementia, Alzheimers, and/or CTE due to head trauma from playing hockey if all the money the player made makes up for the loss of quality of life. Well, if they remember anything. Probably ask their families if the money he made makes up for the loss of quality of life.

If you're under about 27, you get zero control over where you play - and even after 27, you may get zero control over it. Trades? Waivers? Assignments to/from the minors? Maybe even going to Europe to snag a contract? All part of the life of some [most?] hockey players at some point. If you have a family [most guys want one], you get to pick up your family and move them to a new town, or you leave them behind for 8-9 months of the year perhaps getting a couple weeks in total scattered across the schedule where you get to go back and see them [on your dime]. Want to see your kids grow up? Tough crap, let the wife deal with all that stuff; hopefully she's strong enough to deal with that without you - otherwise, ... all that sweet cash coming in on the 1st and 15th makes up for not seeing your kids grow up and your wife saying, "I can't do this," right?

Joe Fan? He can guzzle beer and munch on whatever snacks are in the cupboard while sitting on the couch screaming at the players, with his biggest worries being whether he'll get into an accident on the way to work [if he even thinks about that] or getting hurt in some freak accident on the job [which he also likely doesn't think about] and what he's going to do years from now when he finally retires. He doesn't worry about finding out tomorrow, "we're sending you to Cleveland / Albuquerque / Walla Walla to work, here's a plane ticket, pack your **** up because you're due there in 24 hours" knowing that he could get there and find out a day, a week, a month, a year later he's going somewhere else.

It is so trite and naive to talk about pro athletes and their salaries as if more money makes everything better and solves any problem they might ever have. They have different issues that you and I will never be able to relate to, and "make lots of money" certainly doesn't cure them. It really doesn't cure it for guys like Joe Murphy, Johan Franzen, Keith Primeau, and countless others who have dealt with [and still have to deal with] life-altering injuries and problems that affect their lives, or the families of those players who also have to deal with the issues those guys have that affect them and everyone around them.

Try being a military member, doing similar things you describe & getting paid not even a tenth of it, getting deployed to places most people can't find on a map & getting engaged in situations where the opposition doesn't want to separate you from the puck, but separate you from your life. Or a law enforcement officer who wonders whether or not he or she will go home to their family each night because of the risk their profession brings. See, I don't feel sorry for pampered profession athletes who get catered meals, chartered travel, top notch hotels & the best conditioning equipment. I'll give you they have unique skills sets & talents, but they are vastly over compensated currently.

 

[Hoser]

It is so trite and naive to talk about pro athletes and their salaries as if more money makes everything better and solves any problem they might ever have.

LOL, talk about being trite...

Do you know what the most dangerous jobs in the United States are? Here's the top-25 list:

1. fisherman
2. logger
3. aircraft pilot
4. roofer
5. garbageman
6. steelworker
7. truck driver
8. farmer/rancher
9. landscaper
10. lineman
11. farmhand
12. construction supervisor
13. construction helper
14. maintenance worker
15. groundskeeper
16. construction laborer
17. mechanic's supervisor
18. policeman
19. construction equipment operator
20. mining machine operator
21. tax driver/chauffeur
22. athlete
23. painter
24. firefighter
25. electrician

Guess which one of those occupations makes orders of magnitude more money.

Sure pro hockey players have to worry about injuries, being traded to some other city, keeping in shape all the time, and often being away from their families, but the idea that "Joe Fan" doesn't have to deal with the same sorts of issues is a farce. You don't think pilots aren't away from their families for long periods of time? You don't think police officers and firefighters don't have to worry about keeping in shape?

Every single one of the people working the 21 occupations higher up the dangerous jobs list has to worry more than a pro athlete does about getting hurt while just doing their menial day-to-day job. Every single one of them makes far less money than an NHL player making league minimum, let alone an average NHL salary. None of them have immediate, nigh-unlimited access to healthcare like an NHL player does.

Yes, NHL players do have to make some sacrifices to their lifestyles to keep playing, but...



"That's what the money's for!"

 

[TheWhiskeyThief]

Try being a military member, doing similar things you describe & getting paid not even a tenth of it, getting deployed to places most people can't find on a map & getting engaged in situations where the opposition doesn't want to separate you from the puck, but separate you from your life. Or a law enforcement officer who wonders whether or not he or she will go home to their family each night because of the risk their profession brings. See, I don't feel sorry for pampered profession athletes who get catered meals, chartered travel, top notch hotels & the best conditioning equipment. I'll give you they have unique skills sets & talents, but they are vastly over compensated currently.

You know the risks going in, you know the opportunity costs and you know that if you gimmick it right you can have 2 pensions by the time you’re 40 and move into the private sector.

 

[Hoser]

You know the risks going in, you know the opportunity costs and you know that if you gimmick it right you can have 2 pensions by the time you’re 40 and move into the private sector.

Same as a pro athlete really, except they'll make millions and worry about being assigned to Paducah instead of deployed to some hell-hole and being KIA.

 

[HolyCrap]

regardless, still a lot more money than the average person sees in their lifetime....

Yup. Not a bad salary for a five year gig. And they can also get a normal job after and live very well.

 

[edog37]

You know the risks going in, you know the opportunity costs and you know that if you gimmick it right you can have 2 pensions by the time you’re 40 and move into the private sector.

Except that the military member/law enforcement officer are vastly underpaid & are far more significant producers for society. Athletes should really just shut their mouths & play & be thankful for all the gifts they have received.