OT: Discusión del Fútbol (EPL, FIFA, LIGA, USMNT, USWNT, MLS, etc) - Parte Uno

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CapitalsCupReality

It’s Go Time!!
Feb 27, 2002
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Can't believe we won. Bradley was abysmal. Beasley was awful. Johannsson did nothing. If Jozy is out we're screwed. Poor passing, terrible possession... that was one of the worst games I've seen us play. Thankfully the back line looked organized. Need to pick it up against Portugal and go for the W.

Klinsmann, for all his right decisions, made a poor one not including Landon. You cannot convince me Donovan doesn't do more for this team right now than Johannsson, Green, or Wondolowski.

You're probably right, but Donovan screwed himself by taking a sabbatical in a crucial time. Part of me fully supports Klinsmann for taking the guys who sold out to be there, and weren't wishy washy.
 

Ajax1995

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Dec 9, 2002
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You're probably right, but Donovan screwed himself by taking a sabbatical in a crucial time. Part of me fully supports Klinsmann for taking the guys who sold out to be there, and weren't wishy washy.

Completely agree. And it wasn't like Donovan had been playing all that well for a while now. Sure after he didn't make the team he decided he was going to try again and show everyone he should have made it but we haven't seen that in a long while from him IMO.

It seemed to me that Donovan thought he should have made the team based completely on who he is and what he had done in the past, while the current version is a lesser player by a decent amount IMO.
 

AlexBrovechkin8

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You're probably right, but Donovan screwed himself by taking a sabbatical in a crucial time. Part of me fully supports Klinsmann for taking the guys who sold out to be there, and weren't wishy washy.

Completely agree. And it wasn't like Donovan had been playing all that well for a while now. Sure after he didn't make the team he decided he was going to try again and show everyone he should have made it but we haven't seen that in a long while from him IMO.

It seemed to me that Donovan thought he should have made the team based completely on who he is and what he had done in the past, while the current version is a lesser player by a decent amount IMO.

CCF, who cares if he took a 3 month sabbatical? Michael Jordan left basketball to play a different sport and I'm pretty sure the Bulls didn't give a **** about it when he wanted to come back. Granted, different situations but Landon has been the "face" or the "savior" of US soccer since he was 14 and needed a breather. He found himself and rededicated himself to the sport and to his team. And you can't have it both ways in terms of guys selling out to be there, Julian Green sold out to be there? What exactly did he do in qualifying to earn a spot over Donovan? Aron Johannsson did what during qualifying to earn a spot? John Brooks?

Millhaus, you're dead wrong. He had a cold spell in the MLS (who doesn't) but Donovan was the most dominant player on the field during the 2013 Gold Cup scoring or assisting on 12 out of the team's 20 goals while serving as captain and mentoring the younger guys. He was fantastic and motivated and did everything Klinsmann asked him to do. This team is a better team with Landon on it, especially with Jozy out. Period. End of story.
 

Ajax1995

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Millhaus, you're dead wrong. He had a cold spell in the MLS (who doesn't) but Donovan was the most dominant player on the field during the 2013 Gold Cup scoring or assisting on 12 out of the team's 20 goals while serving as captain and mentoring the younger guys. He was fantastic and motivated and did everything Klinsmann asked him to do. This team is a better team with Landon on it, especially with Jozy out. Period. End of story.

The Gold Cup? Come on man. When even the hosts send their B team you know it doesn't matter.

He's been on a steady downhill slide for a while now IMO as his speed and quickness have declined. He stopped challenging himself a few seasons ago and has been content to rest on his laurels.

He saw the writing on the wall, decided he did want to play in one last World Cup, and made himself available for a B team tournament. But it was too little too late and he was left off the team in favor of guys who will likely be there in the future, when a 36 year old Donovan certainly won't be.

It is what it is man. Acting like this is some kind of unheard of tragedy makes no sense whatsoever.
 

AlexBrovechkin8

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The Gold Cup? Come on man. When even the hosts send their B team you know it doesn't matter.

He's been on a steady downhill slide for a while now IMO as his speed and quickness have declined. He stopped challenging himself a few seasons ago and has been content to rest on his laurels.

He saw the writing on the wall, decided he did want to play in one last World Cup, and made himself available for a B team tournament. But it was too little too late and he was left off the team in favor of guys who will likely be there in the future, when a 36 year old Donovan certainly won't be.

It is what it is man. Acting like this is some kind of unheard of tragedy makes no sense whatsoever.

I'm not saying it's the Champions League, but he was dominant nonetheless.

So you're OK with Coach K openly admitting to his team that he's building for the future and 2014 is a throwaway? Because that's what he did and that's how you're justifying it. I'm going to ask you point blank: is this team better right now with Landon Donovan or Julian Green? Chris Wondolowski? Aron Johannsson?

And I do find it tragic, some what. The WC happens once every 4 years. We should be playing our best players, not guys who may or may not be in the fold in 2018.
 

sycamore

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Jan 16, 2010
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Korea surprisingly impressive. Didn't realize they were this good. I think they emerge along with Belgium from this group.
 

Ajax1995

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So you're OK with Coach K openly admitting to his team that he's building for the future and 2014 is a throwaway? Because that's what he did and that's how you're justifying it. I'm going to ask you point blank: is this team better right now with Landon Donovan or Julian Green? Chris Wondolowski? Aron Johannsson?

And I do find it tragic, some what. The WC happens once every 4 years. We should be playing our best players, not guys who may or may not be in the fold in 2018.

Yes I am fine with Klinsmann implying this is a tournament perhaps too early. What were you under the impression they were going to win it or something?

Teams bring players not for today but for tomorrow all the time. It is standard practice to fill a spot that regardless of who the players is is not going to see the field anyway with someone who will be playing a bigger part in future tournaments. So who would I rather see riding the bench Green or Donovan? Green.

And you can't compare players who play essentially different positions/roles IMO and ignore how the manager lines his team up. Donovan isn't a striker, Johansson and Wondolowski are. Donovan was competing with the guys who line up behind the striker either the 3 in a 4-2-3-1 or the top of the diamond or 2nd forward role in the 4-4-2. Ideally at this stage of his career he is playing in Dempsey's role and Dempsey is the better player IMO.
 

AlexBrovechkin8

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Yes I am fine with Klinsmann implying this is a tournament perhaps too early. What were you under the impression they were going to win it or something?

Teams bring players not for today but for tomorrow all the time. It is standard practice to fill a spot that regardless of who the players is is not going to see the field anyway with someone who will be playing a bigger part in future tournaments. So who would I rather see riding the bench Green or Donovan? Green.

And you can't compare players who play essentially different positions/roles IMO and ignore how the manager lines his team up. Donovan isn't a striker, Johansson and Wondolowski are. Donovan was competing with the guys who line up behind the striker either the 3 in a 4-2-3-1 or the top of the diamond or 2nd forward role in the 4-4-2. Ideally at this stage of his career he is playing in Dempsey's role and Dempsey is the better player IMO.

Have you ever played sports? How could you be OK with your coach saying, "next time, guys." What a loser attitude. This is not the same as cutting a vet in training camp to bring along a draft pick or a 2nd year guy, which you are right in that it happens every year. The WC is one time every four years that the country cares about soccer -- we should be putting our best product on the field regardless of whether or not we think we can win. We have no idea what Green or Johannsson will looked like in 4 years; they could both flame out or one could suffer a terrible injury and be done with soccer ala Charlie Davies. As Herm said, you play to win the game.

Klinsmann specifically said he viewed Donovan as a striker at this point in his career, and that Green, Johannsson, and Wondo were slightly ahead of him in terms of form. That's total garbage. And if you think Donovan should be playing Dempsey's spot, what happens if 15 minutes into the game on Sunday Dempsey is having trouble breathing because of his broken nose? Who are you putting in then?

This is where we differ and why we won't agree. I played and I coach to win. You're OK with accepting a lesser product on the field now if it means there's some slim possibility sitting on a bench this year may give a young guy some small added benefit in 4 years. I'm not. Donovan is versatile and would be a huge asset to the team right now. We get 3 games, maybe 4 or 5 every 4 years and I want to see our best players on the field.
 

Ajax1995

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Dec 9, 2002
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Have you ever played sports? How could you be OK with your coach saying, "next time, guys." What a loser attitude. This is not the same as cutting a vet in training camp to bring along a draft pick or a 2nd year guy, which you are right in that it happens every year. The WC is one time every four years that the country cares about soccer -- we should be putting our best product on the field regardless of whether or not we think we can win. We have no idea what Green or Johannsson will looked like in 4 years; they could both flame out or one could suffer a terrible injury and be done with soccer ala Charlie Davies. As Herm said, you play to win the game.

Klinsmann specifically said he viewed Donovan as a striker at this point in his career, and that Green, Johannsson, and Wondo were slightly ahead of him in terms of form. That's total garbage. And if you think Donovan should be playing Dempsey's spot, what happens if 15 minutes into the game on Sunday Dempsey is having trouble breathing because of his broken nose? Who are you putting in then?

This is where we differ and why we won't agree. I played and I coach to win. You're OK with accepting a lesser product on the field now if it means there's some slim possibility sitting on a bench this year may give a young guy some small added benefit in 4 years. I'm not. Donovan is versatile and would be a huge asset to the team right now. We get 3 games, maybe 4 or 5 every 4 years and I want to see our best players on the field.

I don't know what to tell you. Going into World Cups teams say they are just hoping to get out of their group all the time. That their team isn't as strong as previous ones and that this is maybe a tournament too early for them. I would say there is a difference between having a loser attitude and a realistic attitude. Winning the World Cup is really hard and we all know the US is not anywhere close to doing that. And Frankly it isn't helping them having their top players leaving the best leagues in the world to cool their heals in the very sub par MLS. Donovan was the US poster child for I don't want to compete against the best I want to have it easy at home.

And I will say it again. Teams take young players who are never going to play to the World Cup for the experience all the time. They aren't taking their best 20 non goaltenders they are taking their best 18 or so, since that is the only reasonable amount of guys who might get onto the field, and a few guys for the future.

It is what it is and you might as well get used to it...
 

CapitalsCupReality

It’s Go Time!!
Feb 27, 2002
64,587
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I wasn't really able to pay that much attention but it seemed that Ochoa kind of 'hot goalied' them. I'll watch it again later though.

He certainly made some key saves and it's not like Mexico is bad, but I still thought Brazil should have shown more.
 

CapitalsCupReality

It’s Go Time!!
Feb 27, 2002
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CCF, who cares if he took a 3 month sabbatical? Michael Jordan left basketball to play a different sport and I'm pretty sure the Bulls didn't give a **** about it when he wanted to come back. Granted, different situations but Landon has been the "face" or the "savior" of US soccer since he was 14 and needed a breather. He found himself and rededicated himself to the sport and to his team. And you can't have it both ways in terms of guys selling out to be there, Julian Green sold out to be there? What exactly did he do in qualifying to earn a spot over Donovan? Aron Johannsson did what during qualifying to earn a spot? John Brooks?

Millhaus, you're dead wrong. He had a cold spell in the MLS (who doesn't) but Donovan was the most dominant player on the field during the 2013 Gold Cup scoring or assisting on 12 out of the team's 20 goals while serving as captain and mentoring the younger guys. He was fantastic and motivated and did everything Klinsmann asked him to do. This team is a better team with Landon on it, especially with Jozy out. Period. End of story.

To me, he's at best a part time player. I think Klinsmann made something of an example out of him, right or wrong. Never suggested there wasn't some positive to having him there, but Landon Donovan isn't the future of US soccer, he's the past right now. I see this all as a build up to next WC where expectations will be higher and these younger guys will have experience and be more developed.
 

g00n

Retired Global Mod
Nov 22, 2007
30,523
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Yellow card on a massive dive. Player to miss next match. That kind of thing should be reviewed.
 

HunterSThompson

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Jun 19, 2007
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I think for some aspects of team building, some are missing the difference between professional teams and leagues meant to build a team to make money and National teams meant to build a program for little more than glory and national pride.
 
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