Dion Phaneuf contract talk: Twitter, THN, TheStar links

[KuleminFan41]

Im a Dion fan but do you save his 6.5 million along with say a 5 million cap increase and sprinkle that amongst Bolland, McClement, Fraser, Ranger, Kumelin being UFAs and Gardiner, Franson and Reimer being RFA's. Tough call.

500k from Frattin and Scrivens comes off the books next summer as well as Tucker's and Armstrong's to thats 2m right there. Have to get rid of Liles some how which is 3.85m even if you can retain 1m or something. Still leaves open up some money for those guys. Reimer or Bernier will get traded by years end I think.

22m is open currently for next season ,2.5m comes off from Tucker, Frattin, Scrivens , and Armstrong making it to 24.5. Work in Liles potentially you get at least 25m open space then work from there

 

[Ace88*]

Im wary of signing him for anything longer than 5 years. He is not an intelligent hockey player, and unintelligent players dont tend to age well. Look what happened to McCabe for example. They both have great physical tools and know how to use them, but they are both also great at making poor decisions at times or having brain farts. All defenseman are prone to such, but it's frustrating when you can just tell it was a mistake solely due to a lack of hockey intelligence.

Having said that, i do want to have him resigned. Either a 6-6.5 x 5 or an 8 year, front loaded contract at a lower cap hit.

 

[Vexed]

500k from Frattin and Scrivens comes off the books next summer as well as Tucker's and Armstrong's to thats 2m right there. Have to get rid of Liles some how which is 3.85m even if you can retain 1m or something. Still leaves open up some money for those guys. Reimer or Bernier will get traded by years end I think.

22m is open currently for next season ,2.5m comes off from Tucker, Frattin, Scrivens , and Armstrong making it to 24.5. Work in Liles potentially you get at least 25m open space then work from there

We're in a great position this year to decide which players we have will be a part of the future product. Depending on how the season plays out, we could be very active at the deadline. This is the summer Nonis can really put his stamp on things if he so chooses

 

[KuleminFan41]

Im wary of signing him for anything longer than 5 years. He is not an intelligent hockey player, and unintelligent players dont tend to age well. Look what happened to McCabe for example. They both have great physical tools and know how to use them, but they are both also great at making poor decisions at times or having brain farts. All defenseman are prone to such, but it's frustrating when you can just tell it was a mistake solely due to a lack of hockey intelligence.

Having said that, i do want to have him resigned. Either a 6-6.5 x 5 or an 8 year, front loaded contract at a lower cap hit.

They both suffered from the same thing, being the sole guy on defence to carry the whole team. Just look at the team sheets for those seasons when McCabe was with the Leafs. Hardly stellar names, its the same with Phaneuf.

 

[diceman934]

Another great two-way performance by our elite #1 last night.

ho-hum, no big deal.

Jokes....he was at best ok!

He looked lost several times, missed rotations and made several bad decisions.....if that is what you call Elite, then I disagree.

 

[Leafsin2014*]

Jokes....he was at best ok!

He looked lost several times, missed rotations and made several bad decisions.....if that is what you call Elite, then I disagree.

He is not elite, if we pay him more than 5M next year we are overpaying, forget even thinking about an 8 year deal because that would be insane. If we took him off the books and didn't re-sign him, we could keep everyone on the roster and even have a little extra cash.

This isn't "bashing Phaneuf", he's a good defenceman but nowhere near elite and he isn't going to get better, more likely headed in the opposite direction.

 

[Stephen23]

I think a 3-5 year deal for Phaneuf is ideal. I can manage with 6.5 per.

 

[Tak7]

He is not elite, if we pay him more than 5M next year we are overpaying, forget even thinking about an 8 year deal because that would be insane. If we took him off the books and didn't re-sign him, we could keep everyone on the roster and even have a little extra cash.

This isn't "bashing Phaneuf", he's a good defenceman but nowhere near elite and he isn't going to get better, more likely headed in the opposite direction.

Such a simple, common sense post, that hits everything on the head perfectly and happens to be absolutely right.

Aka. you are anti-Phaneuf/hater/troll/don't know what you are talking about etc.

Seriously - there's nobody outside of this city that thinks Phaneuf is a #1. #2? I'd say a damn good #2. But not a #1.

Giving him $6.5 will be a mistake. He is not worth $6.5. He doesn't provide you with $6.5 quality minutes. He's not in the same calibre as the other #1s in the league. People smarter than me, and who know hockey better than I do, and have played the game believe it.

Why can't we believe it?

 

[htpwn]

They both suffered from the same thing, being the sole guy on defence to carry the whole team. Just look at the team sheets for those seasons when McCabe was with the Leafs. Hardly stellar names, its the same with Phaneuf.

What happened to McCabe was a travesty.

The guy was being criticized for not signing an extension for weeks on end before he did.

The next year everybody starts hating on him because he wasn't living up to the very contract everyone was practically begging him to sign.

Phaneuf is a little different. Opinions on him are more split and a good portion of the fan base would be happy to see him gone. Essentially, he'll attract a good amount of criticism regardless, let alone if he signs for what (very early) speculation has him asking ($7 million+).

 

[ThreeHundred]

Such a simple, common sense post, that hits everything on the head perfectly and happens to be absolutely right.

Aka. you are anti-Phaneuf/hater/troll/don't know what you are talking about etc.

Seriously - there's nobody outside of this city that thinks Phaneuf is a #1. #2? I'd say a damn good #2. But not a #1.

Giving him $6.5 will be a mistake. He is not worth $6.5. He doesn't provide you with $6.5 quality minutes. He's not in the same calibre as the other #1s in the league. People smarter than me, and who know hockey better than I do, and have played the game believe it.

Why can't we believe it?

I agree with this.

 

[BayStreetBullies*]

He is not elite, if we pay him more than 5M next year we are overpaying, forget even thinking about an 8 year deal because that would be insane. If we took him off the books and didn't re-sign him, we could keep everyone on the roster and even have a little extra cash.

This isn't "bashing Phaneuf", he's a good defenceman but nowhere near elite and he isn't going to get better, more likely headed in the opposite direction.

Phaneuf is a top 10 D in the game, deal with it. No one, and I mean no one one the Leafs does what he can night in and night out. Offense, defense, heavy minutes, PP, PK, etc. 5 m means you're having a laugh, and don't actually watch him play.

This isn't "Phaneuf homerism", he's a great defenceman. And sky's the limit for him.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

Your answer is right there... he isn't and will never be but he was, at one point, on his way. He is not that physical anymore, not enough to wear him down at an accelerated pace. Just my opinion.

Neither was Stevens when he was offensively strong. In fact, his defensive game was regularly criticised during those years and only won the Conn Smythe when he was 35. Seeing that Phaneuf isn't as physical as his earlier years, I could see him reverting to that form once his offensive numbers decline.

 

[Swarez]

Such a simple, common sense post, that hits everything on the head perfectly and happens to be absolutely right.

Aka. you are anti-Phaneuf/hater/troll/don't know what you are talking about etc.

Seriously - there's nobody outside of this city that thinks Phaneuf is a #1. #2? I'd say a damn good #2. But not a #1.

Giving him $6.5 will be a mistake. He is not worth $6.5. He doesn't provide you with $6.5 quality minutes. He's not in the same calibre as the other #1s in the league. People smarter than me, and who know hockey better than I do, and have played the game believe it.

Why can't we believe it?

This is where the market is today:

James Wisniewski makes 5.5
Mark Streit makes 5.5
Timonon- 6 (although short deal)
Matt Carle 5.5

IMO 100% of above is overpaid for what they bring, but they still got paid.

None of those are real #1's, if they can make that money someone will be Dion something in the 6's, maybe a top number in the low 7's. I am not saying he is worth it, I am just saying someone will give it to him in the market. Leafs have to decide if they are OK overpaying by 1-1.5M a year, if it was a 4-5 year deal I say do it, if he wants term let him walk.

 

[Dangles McGavin]

What about 8 years:

8, 8, 7, 7, 5, 4, 4, 4

Cap hit of 5.875

I think that's pretty close to being fair.

 

[Tak7]

This is where the market is today:

James Wisniewski makes 5.5
Mark Streit makes 5.5
Timonon- 6 (although short deal)
Matt Carle 5.5

IMO 100% of above is overpaid for what they bring, but they still got paid.

None of those are real #1's, if they can make that money someone will be Dion something in the 6's, maybe a top number in the low 7's. I am not saying he is worth it, I am just saying someone will give it to him in the market. Leafs have to decide if they are OK overpaying by 1-1.5M a year, if it was a 4-5 year deal I say do it, if he wants term let him walk.

I understand completely where market value is.

However, there's no rule out there that says you have to sign a guy, even if market value puts him at an overpaid rate.

I think I'm just about OK with your suggestion of a slight overpayment as long as the Leafs get term out of it. However, as the team's captain, and using the comparable that you have provided, there's just no chance that Phaneuf's camp doesn't ask for max years @ $6.5-7 as a starting number. Heck their starting number might even be higher than that.

And at that point, if I'm Nonis I'm washing my hands clean and saying sorry but we aren't having you back.

ALSO - Let's not forget that Nonis entertained trade discussion about Phaneuf over the summer. Maybe that was Nonis doing his due diligence, or maybe it was more than that - ie. Nonis knowing that he won't want to fit Phaneuf into the Leafs salary structure based on what he thinks Dion will want.

 

[TeamBester]

How do you sign someone at market value, yet overpay him?

 

[Sundinisagod]

I actually think Dion would be wise to take a slight cut in pay, it would do wonders in terms of perception and/or criticism. Never happen, but...

He really would be doing himself a huge favour...he's made his money already, a few hundred k one way or another won't make a difference to his lifestyle...but maybe his ego.

 

[rojac]

Im wary of signing him for anything longer than 5 years. He is not an intelligent hockey player, and unintelligent players dont tend to age well. Look what happened to McCabe for example. They both have great physical tools and know how to use them, but they are both also great at making poor decisions at times or having brain farts. All defenseman are prone to such, but it's frustrating when you can just tell it was a mistake solely due to a lack of hockey intelligence.

Having said that, i do want to have him resigned. Either a 6-6.5 x 5 or an 8 year, front loaded contract at a lower cap hit.

That's pretty much my thinking. I'd probably even be willing to go as high as 6.75 on a four or five year deal. But definitely, a longer term deal should be front-loaded with a lower cap hit.

 

[JackJ]

Sign him to an 8yr/56m (7m per).

The core on D are Phaneuf, Franson, & Gardiner. Sign all three long term.

Add Rielly, Percy, MacWilliam and we're set for a decade.

 

[mikebel111*]

Jokes....he was at best ok!

He looked lost several times, missed rotations and made several bad decisions.....if that is what you call Elite, then I disagree.

I watched the replay and i can honestly say. You were watching a different game. Easily the best d man on the ice.

 

[dballislife2]

if he takes 6m i give him the 7-8 years...but if he wants close to 7m i wont go over 5 years...hate to go over 7 for dion, chara keith, seabrook dont even make 7

 

[The_Chosen_One]

if he takes 6m i give him the 7-8 years...but if he wants close to 7m i wont go over 5 years...hate to go over 7 for dion, chara keith, seabrook dont even make 7

Seabrook is still on a contract that he signed as an RFA, while Keith is making $7.65 million this year, the next, and the year after that. We're talking about a very front load contract here.

Also notice the pairing:

Keith - Seabrook

vs.

Gunnarsson - Phaneuf.

There is a reason why Gunnars is on a $3.1 million cap. Let's get him a Seabrook, and remember, unlike those two, Phaneuf is relied upon heavily on the defensive side. You keep defenceman like that, and, yes, he's going to get paid. Much like Kessel. This "debate" will be over soon.

 

[Kb21]

hes good but not great. he is more fitted to be a 2nd line Dman cause he is slow, has low hockey IQ, and bad positionally a lot.

i wouldn't mind having him back for 3-4 yrs but he would need to take a paycut and sign for around jay bow money cause he is no where near worth 6-6.5M. also with the amount of guys we need to resign i'd rather spend that money else where i.e. franson 4/4.5M for 8 yrs.

 

[Garbs]

It's going to be very hard paying Phaneuf 7 million longterm, and Franson 4-5 million longterm when you know you have Gardiner and Reilly waiting in the wings about to breakout.

 

[Kingstonian84*]

hes good but not great. he is more fitted to be a 2nd line Dman cause he is slow, has low hockey IQ, and bad positionally a lot.

Disagree with a lot of this, I think on most teams Dion is a top pairing guy, albeit he's not upthere with guys like Chara and company. I wouldn't say Dion is slow because he is good going north/south, where he does struggle a bit is turns and lateral movement though, that needs some work for sure. Low hockey IQ isn't his problem, his problem is he's inconistent which has more to do with desire or lack there of it. Bad postionally? No I don't think so, he wouldn't be getting 25 plus mins a game per night if that was true, the only area he is pathetic at is boxing guys out in front of the net.