Dino Ciccarelli Versus Corey Perry...

Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by GlitchMarner, Oct 16, 2018.

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Which would you rather have in his prime?

  1. Ciccarelli

    42.3%
  2. Perry

    57.7%
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  1. GlitchMarner

    GlitchMarner Formerly 29GoalHoglund

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    Two iterations of the same player: A goal scoring winger with some sandpaper and nastiness (and a reputation for being a *****ebag) - which player are you taking in his prime?

    Without analysis, I'm leaning toward Perry because of his peak.
     
  2. The Panther

    The Panther Registered User

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    Perry's Hart trophy is akin to Theodore's -- one and done, never in the conversation again. But Theodore arguably deserved his, whereas I'm pretty sure Perry didn't.

    Ciccarelli has better longevity, so far, and I don't see Perry getting his form back. (He was paid 9 million dollars last season for scoring 17 goals.) Dino was actually 2nd in scoring to Gretzky for most of the 1986-87 season, but a few players caught him by the end. It's not that dissimilar a peak to Perry's.

    There's something very unlikable about Perry, and Ciccarelli has a cooler name.
     
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  3. GlitchMarner

    GlitchMarner Formerly 29GoalHoglund

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    Wasn't Ciccarelli rather unlikable as well, though? I've heard some were surprised he made it into the Hall because of his reputation in the hockey community (or something along those lines). I didn't mind him, but he was getting toward the end of his prime when I started following hockey in 1993.

    I kind of like Perry because I was a fan of his in his Junior days (he's definitely been dirty in the NHL, though - can't deny that).

    His Hart season is an anomaly in his career, but you do have to remember he was a First Team All-Star and a top five scorer in 2014 as well. He has more finishes in the top ten in goals than Dino.

    I do doubt he beats Ciccarelli's longevity in terms of quality, yeah.
     
  4. VanIslander

    VanIslander Don't waste my time

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    Dino was a MASTER at holding ground near the crease to screen, deflect and rebound during a very clutch-and-grab era. He drew a lot of penalties because refs could ignore flagrant hooking, crosschecking and interference for only so long.

    A young winger named Brind'amour and Shanny were the closest to him in doing these things. But have no doubt who the master was.

    BTW, Ovechkin passed Dino in career goals this month (608). It only took OV over 13 years to do so.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2018
  5. The Panther

    The Panther Registered User

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    I feel like Ciccarelli probably doesn't get enough respect because he was small. There's a thing in hockey where small guys can't get no respect. You can out-produce a player twice your size for 15 years in a row, but the other guy will get more credit. It's weird, but that's how it is.

    Anyway, Ciccarelli ranked 4th in GPG during the 80s among right-wingers (min. five seasons), which, like center, is a deep position (he also ranks 4th or 5th, depending on criteria, for total goals and points in the 80s).

    For the fifteen (and a bit) seasons he played from late in 1980-81 through 1995-96, Dino is 2nd in goals by right-wingers to Mike Gartner.

    As an NHL rookie (only 32 games' experience!), he went to the Finals, scoring 14 goals and 21 points! 73 playoff goals is pretty impressive for a guy who never won the Cup and went to the Finals once.
     
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  6. GlitchMarner

    GlitchMarner Formerly 29GoalHoglund

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    Ciccarelli scored at least three goals in every playoffs he played in in the NHL except one (where he had zero goals).
     
  7. Sentinel

    Sentinel Registered User

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    I misread "prime" as "peak," so I voted "Perry". Perry's peak was higher. In every other aspect, Dino is higher and better. Excellent longevity. A fan favorite. Holmstrom before Holmstrom and Robitaille before Robitaille. :)
     
  8. Ivan13

    Ivan13 Super Joe!

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    Two of the more unlikeable players to ever play. Ciccarelli was better when it comes to hockey.
     
  9. DannyGallivan

    DannyGallivan Your world frightens and confuses me

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    Yes and no. Theodore's Hart never should have happened, period. Iginla was robbed plain and simple.

    Back to the question at hand. At least Perry, in his prime, produced better than his peers. Dino never did. Therefore this is easy... you go with Perry.
     
  10. DannyGallivan

    DannyGallivan Your world frightens and confuses me

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    Ciccarelli was a horrible skater, but had great hands around the net.
     
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  11. quoipourquoi

    quoipourquoi Goaltender

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    I don’t know. As pointed out earlier, he was a strong 1st Team All-Star in 2013-14 (109 first-place votes on 137 ballots over Alex Ovechkin in a season bookended by Ovechkin’s 3rd Hart and a 2nd-place finish). 5th in scoring, trailing only Ovechkin in goals. Getzlaf (who outscored Perry by 5 points) received the Hart attention that year for the Ducks, but it was still a top season.

    Probably (certainly?) better than any of Theodore’s follow-ups or any season Ciccarelli had.

    As for Perry not deserving the Hart in 2010-11, seemingly forgotten is that at the end of February, he was already top-5 in goals and points before his hot streak that took a team out of playoff position and into home-ice advantage.

    Strong-ish playoff performer. 2nd in scoring on the 2007 Anaheim Ducks. The Ducks’ shoo-in for the Conn Smythe had Anaheim overcome Chicago in 2015 (a comparable run to Ciccarelli’s 1981). A record three OT winners in 2017.

    Better as a London Knight too.

    And if we’re isolating Ciccarelli’s career vs. RWs, we’d find similar results for Perry, who is 9 goals behind Iginla since his rookie season.
     
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  12. overg

    overg Registered User

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    Dino wasn't particularly great at any traditional hockey skill . . . skating, passing, shooting. However, he had some of the best hand eye coordination in history for deflecting pucks and jumping on rebounds.

    He also had a remarkable sense of space, and he was amazing and keeping just outside of the crease (when he wanted to).

    Finally, if the NHL regularly awarded assists to players who didn't touch the puck but still greatly contributed to a goal being scored, Dino's assist numbers would absolutely skyrocket. His teammates scored so many goals due to Ciccarelli obstructing goalies' vision or otherwise driving them to complete distraction.

    Basically, from within 3 feet of the opponents' net, Dino was one of the best all time.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
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  13. ted1971

    ted1971 History Of Hockey

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    I'll take Dino even though players like Perry are becoming more and more scarce in the league. Perry got hot for a stretch and it got him a Hart. Dino is more of a pure goal scorer then Perry and has every bit of the same sandpaper to his game as Perry. Perry actually has more assists then goals in his career.
     
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  14. a79krgm

    a79krgm Registered User

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    The first time I saw Dino play was during a 1979 exhibition game between the Minnesota North Stars and the US Olympic team. Even then he was feisty. He was a master at selling the dive. I mean, he could keep moving his legs in rapid fashion against the slightest resistance from a defender. It seemed like the refs never caught on to it. Or maybe the did and just admired his masterful performances.

    Corey Perry: He won the Hart. He couldn't beat up Pavel Datsyuk.
     
  15. overg

    overg Registered User

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    I am quite positive that the ratio of "penalties not called" compared to "non-penalties which were called" would break heavily against Dino. He may have dived from time to time, but for every dive, he probably took at least 10 slashes or cross-checks that weren't called. Defensemen and goalies of the time pretty much had free reign to murder someone hanging out by the crease, and that was pretty much the only place Ciccarelli hung out.
     
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  16. Sentinel

    Sentinel Registered User

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    I wonder what Holmstrom's numbers would be like, had he not played squarely in the DPE. More precisely, had he played in Cicarelli's era.
     
  17. tony d

    tony d Registered User Sponsor

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    This is Dino for me. Both played a similar style of game.
     
  18. overg

    overg Registered User

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    Holmstrom was not quite as good at staying out of the crease, and not remotely as good at deflecting pucks. Still a very valuable role player (screening goalies is no small aid to the team scoring), but Cicarrelli was much better at that role.

    If anything, Ciccarelli might have looked relatively even better in the dead puck, huge goalie era. When second chances dry up, having someone who can deflect the first chance is a monster advantage. His absolute numbers would surely go down, but his relative effectiveness might have been even greater.
     
  19. The Panther

    The Panther Registered User

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    I think Ciccarelli's playoff record is a lot more impressive than Perry's. 36 goals in 118 games is okay nowadays, but it's not impressive for a guy who won the Hart trophy and the Richard. (Perry does seem to get more assists in the playoffs, though, to be fair.)
     
  20. Sentinel

    Sentinel Registered User

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    Holmstrom was PHENOMENAL at deflecting pucks.

     
  21. FerrisRox

    FerrisRox Registered User

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    I don't agree with that at all. Theodore's Hart season was absolutely dominant. Never before or since have I seen a goaltender carry a team they way Jose Theodore did that season. That team has no business being anywhere close to a playoff spot. He simply put that team on his back and dragged them into the playoffs. Incredible year.
     
  22. FerrisRox

    FerrisRox Registered User

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    I would be very surprised if anyone that was old enough to actually see both of these careers ended up picking Corey Perry.
     
  23. ehhedler

    ehhedler Registered User

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    Not a fan of any of these players but perhaps Perry is getting some extra unwarranted hate because of his annoying/corny frat boy looks. I haven't followed him that much but is he really that dirty? How many suspensions does he have? I know Ciccarelli had that stick swinging incident where he spent a few hours in detention. Perry was picked for a best-on-best tourney and didn't look out of place (2010 Olympics). You can say Ciccarelli have good playoff stats, but so does Perry.
     
  24. DannyGallivan

    DannyGallivan Your world frightens and confuses me

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    Dead puck era, and Iginla was the only player putting the puck in the net. In an era where most goalies had impressive numbers, Iginla stood out. He should have won the Hart.
     
  25. FerrisRox

    FerrisRox Registered User

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    Five guys had forty goals that year, it's rather disingenuous to say that Iginla was the only guy putting the puck in the net and he was only the league's leading scorer by six points, so he didn't exactly run away with it.

    Equally disingenuous is saying that "most goalies had impressive numbers." Theodore played for a team that based on the talent on the roster should have been basement dwellers and boasted a 2.11 goals against average and a jaw-dropping .931 save percentage. "Most" goalies were not doing that at all, and the ones that were putting up numbers in that neighbourhood had elite teams playing in front of them.

    What Theodore did that year was incredible.
     

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