Confirmed with Link: Dillon to Jets for 2 second round picks

[AK4774]

I'm not sure I'd necessarily play both of the rookies. It's on them earning it but I'd at least not rule it out and be sure to build up their confidence rather than making it all about avoiding mistakes. Comfort for a young defenseman is huge and I'm not sure they've done well in that regard lately. A good deal in whether a young player works out of not is the approach they're walking into. They need to aware of that and adjust accordingly.

Mainly I think churning over most of the 3-6D while primarily focusing on acquiring more of a Niskanen replacement #3 should be the operative goal. If that means going with a rookie or perhaps even two then so be it. I'd rather they were structured that way than maintain an increasingly suspect status quo. To me Dillon was kind of the lynch pin keeping the bottom two pairs together. Subtract him and I could mostly do without the rest on a fundamental level.

Getting out from under Kempny would be wise. I'm not sure either Schultz or Jensen would be ideal partners for Fehervary. Beyond replacing Dillon's grit the overall fit of what they've got is pretty questionable, particularly if said Dillon replacement is inferior.

Getting out of Kempny before he plays any games is foolish in their situation. What if he's solid upon coming back? Then you potentially have a functional LD that you'd need a 2nd+ to dump otherwise so you could go spend even more on a... functional LD. I can only see it being worthwhile if they have a bargain deal lined up with Suter

Orlov Jensen
Kempny Carlson
Fehervary TVR

Pretty patchwork defense on paper but they could gel if stars align

 

[HTFN]

If you have all guys that can skate and some can win a corner battle and can box the opposition out from rebounds and can properly defend their crease, great. The Caps won a cup with Brooks Orpik delivering pain. Dillon can skate but we don't want him.

the f*** are you even talking about, Dillon gets walked on the regular. He can skate better than Orpik, because he came later, but a more mobile version of a largely obsolete defenseman is still just that. It's like now that they won, you don't see any other way to create a winning team than fill all the roles exactly as they were. "Who's the Orpik? Who's the DSP, who's gonna this or that like they did in 2018?"

maybe they play the game they're given and a new team does a new thing. Maybe not constantly asking "who's gonna do Oshie's role, who's going to fill these gaps created in the current system" would let them find new ways to win that don't rely on this delicate, immovable house of cards where nothing can ever be experimented with because "we just don't have the true full-back we had in 1975".

it makes no sense, you're trying to re-capture lightning in a bottle instead of analyzing your win conditions and maximizing them. find your inner Boudreau. maybe a team with faster transition defenders doesn't need a guy capable of shoving someone out of his goaltender's way for 15 minutes a night.

 

[Calicaps]

Is that how GMs calculate trade values? Seems like an upgrade from 3rd to 2nd is what it is--an upgrade--regardless of calculated trade value.

Panik was an anchor and a cap dump. The trade would've been Mantha in exchange for Vrana and a pick. Then throw in another pick to incentivize taking Panik's contract off the books. So Mantha/Vrana is TBD in value, but Panik came at the cost of a 1st or 2nd.

So yeah, losing that pick in that trade hurts. Getting positive value for Dillon may not technically balance the books exactly but it's proof that GMBM is not some dupe that's just been lucky in all his other moves.

One failure is always evidence. Multiple successes are luck. Or maybe better stated, the failure is not the exception that proves the rule, it's rather proof that he's imperfect and therefore sucks.

 

[AK4774]

the f*** are you even talking about, Dillon gets walked on the regular. He can skate better than Orpik, because he came later, but a more mobile version of a largely obsolete defenseman is still just that. It's like now that they won, you don't see any other way to create a winning team than fill all the roles exactly as they were. "Who's the Orpik? Who's the DSP, who's gonna this or that like they did in 2018?"

maybe they play the game they're given and a new team does a new thing. Maybe not constantly asking "who's gonna do Oshie's role, who's going to fill these gaps created in the current system" would let them find new ways to win that don't rely on this delicate, immovable house of cards where nothing can ever be experimented with because "we just don't have the true full-back we had in 1975".

it makes no sense, you're trying to re-capture lightning in a bottle instead of analyzing your win conditions and maximizing them. find your inner Boudreau. maybe a team with faster transition defenders doesn't need a guy capable of shoving someone out of his goaltender's way for 15 minutes a night.

Yeah I could be wrong but it seems Tampa just won consecutive cups with a defense no tougher than the one Orpik "punished" in 2018. Unless I missed the degree to which Luke Schenn was punishing opponents from the the bench.

For that matter, who was it on Boston's defense that punished our meanest toughest forwards of the league? Mike Reilly?

 

[Calicaps]

Yeah I could be wrong but it seems Tampa just won consecutive cups with a defense no tougher than the one Orpik "punished" in 2018. Unless I missed the degree to which Luke Schenn was punishing opponents from the the bench.

For that matter, who was it on Boston's defense that punished our meanest toughest forwards of the league? Mike Reilly?

FWIW Tampa won its most recent Cup with an extra $18M in elite offensive talent. That sort of thing help overcome defensive liabilities.

 

[AK4774]

FWIW Tampa won its most recent Cup with an extra $18M in elite offensive talent. That sort of thing help overcome defensive liabilities.

Did they strike you as a defensively liable team this year? And I could have sworn Gaborik is years removed from being an elite offensive talent. In fact I barely noticed him on the ice last year

 

[AK4774]

If they want a situational PK/tough D Borowiecki for the 3rd pair would be a much better fit. Meaner, better at breaking faces and bodies than Dillon (just ask Josh Anderson). Cheap and doesn't need to play top 4 minutes and get exposed in those. Same as Bortuzzo in 2019

 

[Langway]

Getting out of Kempny before he plays any games is foolish in their situation. What if he's solid upon coming back?

Solid but...not a PKer so I don't think the fit is there. He could maybe insulate Fehervary 5-on-5 but do they want Orlov and a rookie as their LD PKers? Do they want to bank on Kempny working out? Risky. Losing both Dillon & Chara with no external replacements is dicey. If they're ditching Schultz it needs to be reinvested elsewhere on the D and likely toward replacing Dillon.

 

[g00n]

One failure is always evidence. Multiple successes are luck. Or maybe better stated, the failure is not the exception that proves the rule, it's rather proof that he's imperfect and therefore sucks.

Yeah really weird how some of the same people who pine for Trotz as the "Only Coach Who Won us a Cup" look at GMBM as someone who inherited McPhee's players rather than "the only GM who won us a Cup", even though Trotz inherited the same core, failed for 3yrs, almost got canned in the 4th year and needed some miraculous play from everyone on the team to pull it off in his final season.

If anything, GMBM has more claim to the "legacy" players on that Cup team because....he was assistant GM for years (and a friend of McPhee's since childhood) who helped put the Cup team together while Trotz was outside the org coaching in Nashville.

 

[txpd]

the f*** are you even talking about, Dillon gets walked on the regular. He can skate better than Orpik, because he came later, but a more mobile version of a largely obsolete defenseman is still just that. It's like now that they won, you don't see any other way to create a winning team than fill all the roles exactly as they were. "Who's the Orpik? Who's the DSP, who's gonna this or that like they did in 2018?"

maybe they play the game they're given and a new team does a new thing. Maybe not constantly asking "who's gonna do Oshie's role, who's going to fill these gaps created in the current system" would let them find new ways to win that don't rely on this delicate, immovable house of cards where nothing can ever be experimented with because "we just don't have the true full-back we had in 1975".

it makes no sense, you're trying to re-capture lightning in a bottle instead of analyzing your win conditions and maximizing them. find your inner Boudreau. maybe a team with faster transition defenders doesn't need a guy capable of shoving someone out of his goaltender's way for 15 minutes a night.

Because I think the defense needs a physical presence I am trying to recapture past glory? Ok. I actually think boxing out rebounds and clearing shooting lanes and protecting your goalie is important. You may have a difference of opinion. Me, myself, I like Tom Wilson's game. I like Oshie and Ov and Hathaway. Think they are important playing that style. Other's might not. I think on defense having at least one player like that is important.