Did the USA performance vindicate the selection process?

bennypeyton

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Jul 29, 2005
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Anyone who has ever been involved in anything USA Hockey does knows that there will probably never be an evaluation camp in December like Hockey Canada. And the reason for that is......it's already a Canadian idea! From being at the youth Select Camps over the summers I've come to realize that any good idea Canada has, USA Hockey will go the opposite route. That's not to say that we (USA) haven't done a lot to improve our elite players. It's just very frustrating for a lot of us that we can't swallow a little pride and recognize what our neighbors to the north do occasionally.

This is kind of a diffenent topic, but back about six years ago our Select tournaments used to feature teams from specific districts. USA Hockey phased this out a little while ago saying they wanted kids from different areas playing with each other. Of course, most of us know that the real reason was to make it more difficult for CHL scouts to see and talk to US players.

That being said, a good, solid showing by the US fellas this year. If we can consistantly stay in the hunt with Canada and Russia I'll stay happy. But as Melrose said last night on ESPN, "the Americans want to win, but the Canadians have to win."
 

fatsunny

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Jan 22, 2005
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I don't think it's ever been the "process" as much as the "players" selected and their willingness to commit to the team first and to certain roles and then play defensive hockey, a must in a short tournament. The first two games this team played bad defense, made terrible turnovers, played selfishly and took dumb penalties. But this team turned it around, which is a testament to the players and leaders on this team as selected by USA Hockey. Could a few different selections made a difference? I for one believe that it probably would have, but I can't say for sure that there wouldn't have been a possible downside as well. I'm happy for this team winning a medal, great job!

The talent in the US is getting deeper and in the future there will be more disapointed players not making the trip. It's just the way it is now, which is a good thing.
 

Oilers Chick

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It would definitely require a bit of cooperation from the NCAA, or at least the big 3 leagues and their member schools. The CCHA already ends its conference schedule at the right time for kids to make the selection camp. Cogliano missed no Michigan games last year, and only missed 1 game this year because it got pushed back a day at the last minute at ESPNU's request. The WCHA played an extra week, so Toews missed NoDak's games against Michigan Tech (who somewhat shockingly pulled off a road sweep, exploiting Toews absence). Hockey East doesn't run conference games, but some teams scheduled non-conference games for that 12/15-12/16 weekend. The BC kids (Bertram) missed no games.

The exam issue is still there, but if the Canadian kids can manage to stay eligible grade-wise and make the selection camp, I'm confident USA Hockey can figure it out too.

They may not have missed any conference games, but they've missed non-conference games that, if you've been paying attention to how the NCAA Tournament bids work, are crucial and could help determine whether your team (in this case just Michigan and North Dakota because BC was off for most of December) earns a ticket to the dance. should they NOT earn an auto-bid.

FYI, Bertram missed tonight's game versus Northeastern and Toews the same versus CC. Michigan is idle this week.

As for the original thread question...many people here were whining (and quite loudly I might add) because guys LIKE Abdelkader and Lawson were on the team, while others weren't. It's a no-win situation. Not enough CHLers on the team, people complain. Not enough of the so-called "right" collegians on the team, people complain. Even if USA Hockey consistently put together a squad that wins gold medal after gold medal, SOMEONE out in HF Land is going to whine and complain because so-and-so was left off of the team. Blah, blah, blah. I'm not saying the system is perfect or that I even whole-heartedly agree with the selection process but it is what it is.

BTW, I'm thrilled Team USA won the bronze medal. Good for our boys! :clap:
I'm just wondering where all those people are who were so sure that the Americans wouldn't take home a medal this year.
 

CapsWolverinesUSA

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Jan 3, 2007
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They may not have missed any conference games, but they've missed non-conference games that, if you've been paying attention to how the NCAA Tournament bids work, are crucial and could help determine whether your team (in this case just Michigan and North Dakota because BC was off for most of December) earns a ticket to the dance. should they NOT earn an auto-bid.

FYI, Bertram missed tonight's game versus Northeastern and Toews the same versus CC. Michigan is idle this week.

The fact that they're missing games this weekend has absolutely nothing to do with what I'm saying. If Bertram is missing games, so is Gerbe. If Toews is missing games, so are Chorney and Lee. If Michigan had games and Cogliano had to miss them, so would Jack Johnson. And all those USA kids are missing games without a selection camp, and always have been. It is a given that the WJC will cause good players to miss games and that will hurt their college teams. The only relevant issue is whether there are games in the 2 weeks BEFORE the tournament begins, when the selection camp practices would be taking place. BC had none. Michigan had none. NoDak had 2. If the WCHA would simply make a small alteration to their conference schedule, the creation of a selection camp would not require kids to miss any more games than they already are. That was my point.
 

Rounder

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Jan 23, 2005
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They may not have missed any conference games, but they've missed non-conference games that, if you've been paying attention to how the NCAA Tournament bids work, are crucial and could help determine whether your team (in this case just Michigan and North Dakota because BC was off for most of December) earns a ticket to the dance. should they NOT earn an auto-bid.

FYI, Bertram missed tonight's game versus Northeastern and Toews the same versus CC. Michigan is idle this week.

As for the original thread question...many people here were whining (and quite loudly I might add) because guys LIKE Abdelkader and Lawson were on the team, while others weren't. It's a no-win situation. Not enough CHLers on the team, people complain. Not enough of the so-called "right" collegians on the team, people complain. Even if USA Hockey consistently put together a squad that wins gold medal after gold medal, SOMEONE out in HF Land is going to whine and complain because so-and-so was left off of the team. Blah, blah, blah. I'm not saying the system is perfect or that I even whole-heartedly agree with the selection process but it is what it is.

BTW, I'm thrilled Team USA won the bronze medal. Good for our boys! :clap:
I'm just wondering where all those people are who were so sure that the Americans wouldn't take home a medal this year.


Thrilled to finish in third place. Why? This team was an overtime away from not even advancing. They beat a poor Finland team and I will admit played terriffic against the Canadians, however I thought we were assembling a team to win GOLD. If you r content (as many others are ) with competing with, but losing to the Canadian teams than U.S.A hockey will continue to win Bronze medals and call it a success. Yes, as you said the selection process is what it is, and as long as you accept bronze medals it will remain that way.
 

fatsunny

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Jan 22, 2005
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Thrilled to finish in third place. Why? This team was an overtime away from not even advancing. They beat a poor Finland team and I will admit played terriffic against the Canadians, however I thought we were assembling a team to win GOLD. If you r content (as many others are ) with competing with, but losing to the Canadian teams than U.S.A hockey will continue to win Bronze medals and call it a success. Yes, as you said the selection process is what it is, and as long as you accept bronze medals it will remain that way.

Look, whenever the US gets a medal in a tourney like this, at this point in our hockey history, we should be happy. The US doesn't have a tradition of winning gold in this tournament, but at this time we are moving up the ladder in the hockey world. This is a good step in the right direction.

If you look at the adversity this group had to face, I give them tons of credit. These young men pulled through when they were on the brink of getting nothing! A good bounce here or there and we could have been in the gold medal game. Great job boys!
 

hfboardsuser

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Nov 18, 2004
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The US made the right choice in not bringing along a player of Bobby Ryan's character. The kid just isn't a winner.

Well then he fits right in with the rest of Team USA because none of them were winners at the WJC, either, in terms of Gold.
 

Rabid Ranger

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Feb 27, 2002
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Thrilled to finish in third place. Why? This team was an overtime away from not even advancing. They beat a poor Finland team and I will admit played terriffic against the Canadians, however I thought we were assembling a team to win GOLD. If you r content (as many others are ) with competing with, but losing to the Canadian teams than U.S.A hockey will continue to win Bronze medals and call it a success. Yes, as you said the selection process is what it is, and as long as you accept bronze medals it will remain that way.


The U.S. has won FIVE medals total in the WJC's history. I think a medal of any color is something to be applauded.
 

evegoe

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May 23, 2003
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The fact that they're missing games this weekend has absolutely nothing to do with what I'm saying. If Bertram is missing games, so is Gerbe. If Toews is missing games, so are Chorney and Lee. If Michigan had games and Cogliano had to miss them, so would Jack Johnson. And all those USA kids are missing games without a selection camp, and always have been. It is a given that the WJC will cause good players to miss games and that will hurt their college teams. The only relevant issue is whether there are games in the 2 weeks BEFORE the tournament begins, when the selection camp practices would be taking place. BC had none. Michigan had none. NoDak had 2. If the WCHA would simply make a small alteration to their conference schedule, the creation of a selection camp would not require kids to miss any more games than they already are. That was my point.

Interesting thing to note about this past weekend is that Mankato State allowed Minnesota to move their Saturday game to Sunday night. This allowed the Gophers to get five of their players back into the lineup after playing Friday night's game with 14 skaters. Classy move by Troy Jutting who said during a radio interview that he had no qualms about the request. Jutting appreciated Minnesota's help when Mankato applied to the WCHA and he felt playing Minnesota without Okoposo would taint a Maverick victory.

Then again the Gophers won both games to extend their unbeaten streak to 22 games.
 

hawksfan50

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Feb 27, 2002
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You might ask a simialar question of Canada--yes Canada won it all and all their games--but should Gagner have been there instead of perhaps some others? Did they have too many energy/grinders up front and not enough gifted scorers?
They might have even been more dominant had they had more scoring up front...

So you can criticize the USA selections--but just because Canada won it all shouldn't get them a free pass for selection errors/omissions involving their own opportunity costs...Gagner,McArdle,and perhaps another forward hardly made much impact--maybe a game-breaker type like Turris would have been a better choice...

So--you can always second-guess --Maybe the USA could have been better with a couple of different selections--but so too might Canada have been better...
The point is--it might have been worse,not better for the USA anyway,
had Canada chosen differently in a few instances..
 

Oilers Chick

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Jun 7, 2002
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Thrilled to finish in third place. Why? This team was an overtime away from not even advancing. They beat a poor Finland team and I will admit played terriffic against the Canadians, however I thought we were assembling a team to win GOLD. If you r content (as many others are ) with competing with, but losing to the Canadian teams than U.S.A hockey will continue to win Bronze medals and call it a success. Yes, as you said the selection process is what it is, and as long as you accept bronze medals it will remain that way.

As it has been mentioned already, Team USA hasn't won a lot of medals in the U-20 WJCs. So, I'm thrilled with the team going home with a bronze, but does that mean I'm not willing to settle for anything other than gold? No, because this is a national team that is continually growing. In the last five to seven years, the Americans have been producing better and better talent in larger quantities with each passing year and it is continuing. Next year, could be even better and so on. It's called progress. Do I expect our boys to compete for the gold every year? yes, but that doesn't mean they'll necessarily win gold EVERY year.

You seem to define success merely by a gold medal. I define success well beyond that. To me success is continually producing and developing better and better players at ALL levels, from midget/mites all the way up to the pros. I want to see American players succeed at EVERY level, not just at the WJC.
 

5mn Major

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Jan 14, 2006
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This team was an overtime away from not even advancing. They beat a poor Finland team and I will admit played terriffic against the Canadians, however I thought we were assembling a team to win GOLD.

I don't see why your disappointed in this team. USA was good enough to win gold...and lost a coin flip to Canada (overtime game)...and quite possibly taking gold at the same time. Now if the team didn't compete but snuck into the bronze...that would be more disappointing.

Congrats USA!!
 

Randall Graves*

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Somewhat is a good description since your top 2 defenseman did not even attend, in fact one of them blew off two years in a row. I was in Lake Placid and watched most games, the team was not chosen based on their play at the camp, at least not if the staff saw the same production I did.
Well let's be truthful here, the Johnsons are the US golden boys and can pretty much do whatever they want. I was told Ryans mediocre camp was a big reason why he was left off, now if the selection camp had been held like Canadas was my guess is he makes it based on how he has played the last few months. We should've built our team to beat Canada, and I think Ryan could've helped alot on the PP's atleast.

To answer the topic didn't vindicate it but the result didn't hurt the US either, the Americans were basically another offensive guy away from playing in the gold medal game, the US didn't build enough offensive depth IMO. Look at how much we relied on 06 and 07 guys for offense, a few handled it well like Kane and EJ while Okposo did not. Ryan is a proven offensive player and I think that additional depth cost the team vs Canada.
 

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