Did the Leafs lose the Kessel trade to Pittsburgh?

Stamkos4life

Registered User
Oct 25, 2018
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We traded Kessel for basically Kapanen and Andersen.

Kapanen is a solid 3rd line winger who can PK and be a bit physical at times.

Andersen is a notorious choker, always choking.

Please stop making threads. You're still making yourself look bad
 

Menzinger

Kessel4LadyByng
Apr 24, 2014
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I hated the return from the moment it happened. So I'd consider it a "loss" in that sense. Kap + a 1st is roughly fair value but it was the added stuff like the retention that hurt the value

It was however a necessary move to ensure the tank and to signal tl the fan base the team was going all in on the rebuild
 

613Leafer

Registered User
May 26, 2008
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Leafs were tanking. If we didn't trade Kessel, we probably don't end up with Matthews.

It's not directly part of the actual trade, but it is very important context. I'm glad we made the trade.
 
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TMLegend

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May 27, 2012
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Trading Kessel was addition by subtraction. So no they didn't lose the trade. Didn't really win it either using hindsight, but just having Kessel and his toxic mentality off the team at the time was a win in and of itself.
 

tmlms13

Registered User
Apr 11, 2012
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As much as people hate on Andersen. The Leafs don't even get to the tournament without him, and he comes pretty cheap too for a starting goalie.

Trade tree

No Trade
Kessel: 8.0 cap hit
Kapanen equivalent: 3.2
Andersen equivalent: 5.0
Total: 16.2
Not to mention you need to find those equivalents and give up assets or convince a UFA to come after finishing dead last in NHL. Or fill those roster spots with min wage type players

Trade:
Kessel: 1.2 cap hit
Kapanen: 3.2
Andersen: 5.0
Total: 9.4
They obviously used that extra 6.8m on something. In the Hard Cap era, cap space defines a players value that is why I hate what it's become.
 
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Buds17

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Nov 29, 2015
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The opportunity to draft Matthews was a significant part of it. Kapanen is still here. Andersen is the starting goalie until he's not.
 

Plat87

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Nov 22, 2018
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I mean at this point, is it fair to ask did they really win any of the big trades they made?
 

LeafsNation75

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Jan 15, 2010
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We traded Kessel for basically Kapanen and Andersen.

Kapanen is a solid 3rd line winger who can PK and be a bit physical at times.

Andersen is a notorious choker, always choking.
If Toronto had Phil Kessel they never finish last place overall during the 2015-16 season and end up winning the draft lottery to select Auston Matthews 1st overall.

Let's remember they had 69 points that season and it was 1 point less then the Oilers who had 70 points, so chances are Kessel scores some game winning goals for them and they win more games then we actual saw happen.
 

Pucker77

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May 10, 2012
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The part I remember most about the Kessel deal was that everyone wanted Matt Murray or Derrick Pouliot as the prospect included.

Murray would have been awesome for 2 reasons. 1) the Penguins would not have had the goalie who led them to the Cup (maybe they still won because Fleury would have still been there but you never know) which makes it a fair bet that the 1st the Leafs received would have been higher in the draft rather than 30th overall.
2) By getting Murray rather than Kapanen, the Leafs would not have had to trade that PIT 1st and a 2nd for Andersen. Which means there could have been 2 more prospects in the Leafs system or on the team. (Sam Steel and Antoine Morand were the players selected)
 

LeafsNation75

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The part I remember most about the Kessel deal was that everyone wanted Matt Murray or Derrick Pouliot as the prospect included.

Murray would have been awesome for 2 reasons. 1) the Penguins would not have had the goalie who led them to the Cup (maybe they still won because Fleury would have still been there but you never know) which makes it a fair bet that the 1st the Leafs received would have been higher in the draft rather than 30th overall.
2) By getting Murray rather than Kapanen, the Leafs would not have had to trade that PIT 1st and a 2nd for Andersen. Which means there could have been 2 more prospects in the Leafs system or on the team. (Sam Steel and Antoine Morand were the players selected)
Let's remember that on the night Toronto clinched their playoff spot in 2017 against Pittsburgh and were losing 3-2 in the 3rd period, it was Kapanen who scored the game tying goal, which was his very first NHL goal.

 

Pucker77

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May 10, 2012
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Let's remember that on the night Toronto clinched their playoff spot in 2017 against Pittsburgh and were losing 3-2 in the 3rd period, it was Kapanen who scored the game tying goal, which was his very first NHL goal.


It’s all revisionist history, so none of it matters. Yes that goal was awesome and Kappy’s 2OT goal a week later was even better.

But the trade happened 2 years before any of that stuff happened. The team would not make the deal based on those memories. Plus with Murray instead of Kapanen, who knows what would have happened in those 2 years.

Maybe the Leafs keep Bernier for an extra year and miss the playoffs but get to draft a Heiskanen or a Makar rather than Liljegren. Maybe the Leafs call up Murray and he saves their season like he actually did with Pittsburgh. They go to the playoffs and he makes the saves Andersen couldn’t and the Leafs win a round or 2.

There are so many things that could have happened. I’m not going to use a goal in Game #81 of the regular season make me say that the Leafs made the right call on a trade.
 

LeafsNation75

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It’s all revisionist history, so none of it matters. Yes that goal was awesome and Kappy’s 2OT goal a week later was even better.

But the trade happened 2 years before any of that stuff happened. The team would not make the deal based on those memories. Plus with Murray instead of Kapanen, who knows what would have happened in those 2 years.

Maybe the Leafs keep Bernier for an extra year and miss the playoffs but get to draft a Heiskanen or a Makar rather than Liljegren. Maybe the Leafs call up Murray and he saves their season like he actually did with Pittsburgh. They go to the playoffs and he makes the saves Andersen couldn’t and the Leafs win a round or 2.

There are so many things that could have happened. I’m not going to use a goal in Game #81 of the regular season make me say that the Leafs made the right call on a trade.
My point is maybe no one else is able to score that game tying goal if they don't have Kapanen, lose 3-2 and miss the playoffs since they lost the next day against Columbus.

So it's easy to say with hindsight that is was great he was included in the trade because of how everything worked out in that game.
 

Pucker77

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May 10, 2012
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My point is maybe no one else is able to score that game tying goal if they don't have Kapanen, lose 3-2 and miss the playoffs since they lost the next day against Columbus.

So it's easy to say with hindsight that is was great he was included in the trade because of how everything worked out in that game.
I totally get that and what I was saying is that if it was Murray rather than Kapanen maybe the Leafs either don’t need that goal because Murray played well enough to clinch a playoff spot games earlier or maybe the Leafs were so bad that year the game didn’t matter.

But like I said, it is all revisionist history, so it doesn’t matter because the deal went through as it did and we have a few awesome Kapanen moments because of it (PIT goal, 2OT Goal, SH goal vs BOS in Gm7)
 
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LeafsNation75

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I totally get that and what I was saying is that if it was Murray rather than Kapanen maybe the Leafs either don’t need that goal because Murray played well enough to clinch a playoff spot games earlier or maybe the Leafs were so bad that year the game didn’t matter.

But like I said, it is all revisionist history, so it doesn’t matter because the deal went through as it did and we have a few awesome Kapanen moments because of it (PIT goal, 2OT Goal, SH goal vs BOS in Gm7)
If you also want to play even more revisionist history one of the 5 goals the Leafs scored in that game was a power play goal by Tyler Bozak because of Goaltender Interference which knocked Frederik Andersen out of that game. So if that never happens who knows how the remainder of that game plays out.
 

TheTotalPackage

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Sep 14, 2006
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Yes, they lost the deal. Wasn’t happy about it at the time, and 5 years later, my mind hasn’t changed.

Not to say he shouldn’t have been traded. I think to move forward the team needed to. But they did so hastily. He was traded July 1st for cry in’ out loud. The off-season barely begun and they punted him for a package that was underwhelming.

The team got bent over acquiring him, and they got short-changed on the return in rushing to dealing him out.

EDIT — Want to add that trading the 1st for Andersen did redeem the deal from being an absolute disaster. I was happy with that aspect of the trade.
 

LeafsNation75

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He wasn't involved in the Kessel trade. We trade down and got Sandin instead of drafting Konecny
Sandin was drafted in 2018 when Dubas traded back from 25th overall to 29th overall.

Konecny was drafted in 2015 by Philadelphia after trading up with Toronto and eventually the Leafs selected Travis Dermott 34th overall in the 2nd round.

Plus in 2015 it was Mark Hunter who was in charge of the players they drafted, so he obviously wasn't going to select Konecny and it's why Dubas was in charge of trades to get more draft picks.
 

LeafsNation75

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Jan 15, 2010
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Yes, they lost the deal. Wasn’t happy about it at the time, and 5 years later, my mind hasn’t changed.

Not to say he shouldn’t have been traded. I think to move forward the team needed to. But they did so hastily. He was traded July 1st for cry in’ out loud. The off-season barely begun and they punted him for a package that was underwhelming.

The team got bent over acquiring him, and they got short-changed on the return in rushing to dealing him out.

EDIT — Want to add that trading the 1st for Andersen did redeem the deal from being an absolute disaster. I was happy with that aspect of the trade.
This was Kessel list of teams who the Leafs could have traded him to and it was only the Penguins who were interested in trading for him.

Trading Phil Kessel: A look at his trade list
 

Leaf Fans

Registered User
Sep 29, 2017
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Yes,
Sandin was drafted in 2018 when Dubas traded back from 25th overall to 29th overall.

Konecny was drafted in 2015 by Philadelphia after trading up with Toronto and eventually the Leafs selected Travis Dermott 34th overall in the 2nd round.

Plus in 2015 it was Mark Hunter who was in charge of the players they drafted, so he obviously wasn't going to select Konecny and it's why Dubas was in charge of trades to get more draft picks.
That is right. My mistake.
 
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Stephen

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Feb 28, 2002
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The Leafs did okay in the trade considering going into it the trade was framed as a fire sale, but it’s a good lesson not to let the negativity frame any potential deal involving Nylander or Marner turn into a sell low panic trade. Any Big 4 move has to be done as a clear win for the Leafs and not done out of frustration. As frustrated as we all might be.
 

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