Did Kadri develop because of good Leafs player management/development or despite it?

[ShaneFalco]

what does this mean?

LOL I have no idea. I just see a certain poster write it a lot

 

[cookie]

Becoming an NHL player within context to what Shanahan said had both immediate and long term implications--you're both right in this sense. At the time Kadri was one of the Leafs' top players but he also had warts. This means that in order to continue being an NHL, he would have to change his off-ice habits. This would imply that the stuff going on was self-destructive to the player's long term NHL prospects.

 

[cookie]

what does this mean?

Ron Wilson repurposed "it's a good day to die (in battle)" to "it's a good day to lose." Kind of like this thread.

 

[Bluelines]

Tiling his bathroom was a great life experience for Nazem.

If there is one act of frustration that I would recommend for everyone is to tile and or lay hardwood flooring, watch lots of Youtube, have lots of $$$ to fix any "F" up's ... and enjoy a job well done... as in life, similar to what Naz did, you need to find your center (of room) to be successful. Heck if you can master this one art form , you can save yourself a lot of $$$.

 

[Daisy Jane]

(sigh). i don't know why this is such a thing.

Shanahan flat out said that Kadri has to "be an NHL player." obviously - Kadri was in the NHL, thus an NHL player, therefore i think it should be obvious that Shanahan meant something deeper than that that most people should be able to grasp. Or i'd hope so but looking at the bickering, maybe people' don't. (or they'd rather just fight, which wouldn't surprise me either.

Babcock gets mocked about it all the time, but he (and Shanahan etc) want everyone to be "good professionals" in everything in regards to this team. (Including stomping out blue and white disease which regardless of what Nonis and Burke preached let it run rampant). Wilson and Carlyle both said they tried their best to have some kind of accountability but weren't allowed to and I think we all remember the articles before the Horrible Bad Year. Though basically people love to dismiss anything/everything that Wilson and Carlyle did so it wouldn't surprise me that people would just bypass this either.

I think regardless of how people want to be on this side of the conversation, There was something serious enough that Shanahan had to say that Naz had to decide if he wanted to be a "NHL Player." (which I would assume that baldly means whatever he was doing, he wouldn't be one for much longer - 'longer' being relative to the patience of the GM/Coach in question). It was serious enough that they had to call in Kadri's parents and have a serious come to Jesus moment, and serious enough that Kadri himself admitted it was something to the point he had to take ownership and grow up.

Which - resulted in Kadri doing that and correcting his behavior and we see the Kadri we have now. It is not that complicated, it is not an insult to point this out and it gets so flipping tiring to have people act like it is, or a weapon to fling dirt on Kadri. I would also have to say, Kadri was lucky that he had people in the organization who had his back (Carlyle - which people need to get over it that he was tough on the kid), Hunter and then Babcock/Shanahan giving him that last chance . Because a lot of management wouldn't bother (and if Kadri was say a 3rd round pick, or had the Leafs been a bit better - they wouldn't have bothered with all of that). That's not a kadri thing either you see a lot of players who have issues bounce from team to team, before they head to Europe or out of the game.


I think it does Kadri a lot of disservice to dismiss the growth he has done - stuff he admitted on his own.
I think it does Kadri no favours to just be "well it's all managements fault" because honestly it is not their job to 'baby' players for the most part. (I'm not giving a pass to them either mind you, i'm just saying).

 

[LeafsNation75]

(sigh). i don't know why this is such a thing.

Shanahan flat out said that Kadri has to "be an NHL player." obviously - Kadri was in the NHL, thus an NHL player, therefore i think it should be obvious that Shanahan meant something deeper than that that most people should be able to grasp. Or i'd hope so but looking at the bickering, maybe people' don't. (or they'd rather just fight, which wouldn't surprise me either.

Babcock gets mocked about it all the time, but he (and Shanahan etc) want everyone to be "good professionals" in everything in regards to this team. (Including stomping out blue and white disease which regardless of what Nonis and Burke preached let it run rampant). Wilson and Carlyle both said they tried their best to have some kind of accountability but weren't allowed to and I think we all remember the articles before the Horrible Bad Year. Though basically people love to dismiss anything/everything that Wilson and Carlyle did so it wouldn't surprise me that people would just bypass this either.

I think regardless of how people want to be on this side of the conversation, There was something serious enough that Shanahan had to say that Naz had to decide if he wanted to be a "NHL Player." (which I would assume that baldly means whatever he was doing, he wouldn't be one for much longer - 'longer' being relative to the patience of the GM/Coach in question). It was serious enough that they had to call in Kadri's parents and have a serious come to Jesus moment, and serious enough that Kadri himself admitted it was something to the point he had to take ownership and grow up.

Which - resulted in Kadri doing that and correcting his behavior and we see the Kadri we have now. It is not that complicated, it is not an insult to point this out and it gets so flipping tiring to have people act like it is, or a weapon to fling dirt on Kadri. I would also have to say, Kadri was lucky that he had people in the organization who had his back (Carlyle - which people need to get over it that he was tough on the kid), Hunter and then Babcock/Shanahan giving him that last chance . Because a lot of management wouldn't bother (and if Kadri was say a 3rd round pick, or had the Leafs been a bit better - they wouldn't have bothered with all of that). That's not a kadri thing either you see a lot of players who have issues bounce from team to team, before they head to Europe or out of the game.


I think it does Kadri a lot of disservice to dismiss the growth he has done - stuff he admitted on his own.
I think it does Kadri no favours to just be "well it's all managements fault" because honestly it is not their job to 'baby' players for the most part. (I'm not giving a pass to them either mind you, i'm just saying).

There was also that time when Kadri was playing in the AHL and it was reported how Dallas Eakins said Kari's weight was ‘unacceptable’ and that started a whole media circus. So he's overcome a lot besides having Ron Wilson and Randy Carlyle coaching him at the NHL level.

Maple Leafs’ Nazem Kadri under fire for ‘unacceptable’ fat level at Marlies camp | Toronto Star

 

[Liminality]

There was also that time when Kadri was playing in the AHL and it was reported how Dallas Eakins said Kari's weight was ‘unacceptable’ and that started a whole media circus. So he's overcome a lot besides having Ron Wilson and Randy Caryle coaching him at the NHL level.

Maple Leafs’ Nazem Kadri under fire for ‘unacceptable’ fat level at Marlies camp | Toronto Star

I remember that. I thought he was always pretty raw as a player from the draft, a high end junior player who had magic hands but with lots to learn. He needed to have a direction to be molded into an NHL player. I think all the bumps along the road has made him into who he is today.

 

[LeafsNation75]

 

[Finn16]

a bit of both imo.

 

[Daisy Jane]

I have to say if Jonas and James are gonna mine here for article ideas i think we deserve a cut.

 

[IBeL34f]

There was also that time when Kadri was playing in the AHL and it was reported how Dallas Eakins said Kari's weight was ‘unacceptable’ and that started a whole media circus. So he's overcome a lot besides having Ron Wilson and Randy Caryle coaching him at the NHL level.

Maple Leafs’ Nazem Kadri under fire for ‘unacceptable’ fat level at Marlies camp | Toronto Star

Dallas Eakins was also the first coach I remember trying to properly instill in Kadri that he could be a defensive presence for his team - He told him that, as the best offensive player we had, he was expected to be one of the best defensively, since he could think the game the same way the other skilled players do.

Kadri's a guy who's always had the tools required to succeed, but has obviously needed help putting together his toolbox.

We don't have nearly enough information to put the whole puzzle together, but it seems to be pretty evident (to me at least) that some people were better at helping Naz craft his toolbox than others were. Thankfully, Shanny and Babs both seem to have been very good at this.

In the end, no one is capable of doing anything in this world without having received at least some help (either directly or in the past), but no one can force someone to make changes if they're not ready to make them - It was always up to Kadri to develop and take those next steps as player and as a person, even with everybody whispering in his ear.

I'm just glad it worked out as well as it did.

 

[Liminality]

I have to say if Jonas and James are gonna mine here for article ideas i think we deserve a cut.

Right? It's on point!

 

[diceman934]

What’s interesting Gary is that there are pages of posts in this thread that highlight Kadri’s transformation. That talk of cleaning up his act, etc.

You focus on mine. All the time.

And mine includes both the Shanahan choice to “be an NHL player” and a direct quote from Kadri himself about the choice he was forced to make. ( Even includes the link and a date to the full article too)

A. Direct. Quote.

Yours is a classic example of cognitive dissonance. You’ve even convinced yourself that I’ve said things that I haven’t. Certain cards have even been played (by your crew).

It’s sad and a little disturbing.

I admire and respect the hell out of his life change. If a direct quote from the player indicating he faced a life choice that had positive impact on his career doesn’t give you pause to rethink, there’s no point.

There’s no convincing you. Like the Flat Earthers, you can go on pretending there is a different reality. It’s not worth my time anymore.

.

Seriously your agenda is old and wrong. Kadri was a NHL Center before Shanny got to the Leafs and that was not going to change and your attempts at stating otherwise is seriously lacking in facts.


What changed is Kadri he deserves the credit for taking ownership of his off ice issues and putting them behind them. Giving anyone credit other then Kadri is wrong as only the person themselves can change no matter how hard anyone else wants it or demands it.

Kadri always has own his shortcomings and always will. The man is a player that others can learn from as he never once made excuses for his play or his issues yet he still gets no credit for changing both his game and his life.

Shanny only got his attention the rest was all Kadri.

 

[diceman934]

Dallas Eakins was also the first coach I remember trying to properly instill in Kadri that he could be a defensive presence for his team - He told him that, as the best offensive player we had, he was expected to be one of the best defensively, since he could think the game the same way the other skilled players do.

Kadri's a guy who's always had the tools required to succeed, but has obviously needed help putting together his toolbox.

We don't have nearly enough information to put the whole puzzle together, but it seems to be pretty evident (to me at least) that some people were better at helping Naz craft his toolbox than others were. Thankfully, Shanny and Babs both seem to have been very good at this.

In the end, no one is capable of doing anything in this world without having received at least some help (either directly or in the past), but no one can force someone to make changes if they're not ready to make them - It was always up to Kadri to develop and take those next steps as player and as a person, even with everybody whispering in his ear.

I'm just glad it worked out as well as it did.

Dallas was a complete joke and had nothing to do with Kadri success at all. Dallas was an idiot as seen in Edmonton as well.

 

[Liminality]

Dallas was a complete joke and had nothing to do with Kadri success at all. Dallas was an idiot as seen in Edmonton as well.

I don't think it was entirely Dallas' fault for that Edmonton debacle. I think he was given too much too soon but really he wasn't going to be the miracle worker that Edmonton wanted.

 

[moon111]

I think Kadri has the ability to go over the top and change the pace of a game... whether for or against the Leafs. It's something he'll always need coaching and mentoring on. Harnessed correctly, he'll be a positive game-changer. As much as Kadri has matured, I would be hesitant to put him on with two rookies however. I think there's a certain value a winger like Marleau or Komarov would give him without showing up on the score-sheet.

 

[diceman934]

I don't think it was entirely Dallas' fault for that Edmonton debacle. I think he was given too much too soon but really he wasn't going to be the miracle worker that Edmonton wanted.

I know it was. He acted like God same way he did with the Marlies. The man deserves no credit for Kadri at all it was despite him that Kadri succeeded.

 

[diceman934]

There was also that time when Kadri was playing in the AHL and it was reported how Dallas Eakins said Kari's weight was ‘unacceptable’ and that started a whole media circus. So he's overcome a lot besides having Ron Wilson and Randy Carlyle coaching him at the NHL level.

Maple Leafs’ Nazem Kadri under fire for ‘unacceptable’ fat level at Marlies camp | Toronto Star

Do you also remember that his trainer that summer laughed at Dallas Eakins comments. I know who’s opinion I trust in that situation and it was not Eakin’s that is for sure.

 

[Pookie]

Seriously your agenda is old and wrong. Kadri was a NHL Center before Shanny got to the Leafs and that was not going to change and your attempts at stating otherwise is seriously lacking in facts.


What changed is Kadri he deserves the credit for taking ownership of his off ice issues and putting them behind them. Giving anyone credit other then Kadri is wrong as only the person themselves can change no matter how hard anyone else wants it or demands it.

Kadri always has own his shortcomings and always will. The man is a player that others can learn from as he never once made excuses for his play or his issues yet he still gets no credit for changing both his game and his life.

Shanny only got his attention the rest was all Kadri.

Here comes the gang.

You do realize you are agreeing with me while putting me down right?

When i credit him for a massive life turn around, the gang will either take issue with “massive” or downplay the issue itself.

When I say I would book him as a motivational speaker anytime, that’s giving credit to the player.

 

[Pookie]

@Gary Nylund can cut and paste from his Globe and Mail “truther campaign” to maybe have this shut down

 

[Daisy Jane]

LOL I have no idea. I just see a certain poster write it a lot

LOL i have to look it up.
(also thanks, Al + Cookie)

 

[Gary Nylund]

(sigh). i don't know why this is such a thing.

Shanahan flat out said that Kadri has to "be an NHL player." obviously - Kadri was in the NHL, thus an NHL player, therefore i think it should be obvious that Shanahan meant something deeper than that that most people should be able to grasp. Or i'd hope so but looking at the bickering, maybe people' don't. (or they'd rather just fight, which wouldn't surprise me either.

I think regardless of how people want to be on this side of the conversation, There was something serious enough that Shanahan had to say that Naz had to decide if he wanted to be a "NHL Player." (which I would assume that baldly means whatever he was doing, he wouldn't be one for much longer - 'longer' being relative to the patience of the GM/Coach in question). It was serious enough that they had to call in Kadri's parents and have a serious come to Jesus moment, and serious enough that Kadri himself admitted it was something to the point he had to take ownership and grow up.

Shanahan never said any such thing. Perhaps you haven't read the article that keeps getting quoted? If not the you might want to see for yourself, here it is:
Nazem Kadri’s long road to Leafs' overnight success

The "quote" was from a reporter and was dumb because as you said yourself, obviously Kadri was an NHL player. It's only one poster who has already admitted to having a bias against Kadri who keeps spinning this as if Kadri was on the verge of his career being over or wasn't even an NHL player. After all, if the Globe and Mail said it, then it's gospel as their editors NEVER slip up in the slightest right?

Nobody is dismissing Kadri's growth but that doesn't mean we should re-write history and completely trash what he was before his suspension. That is flipping tiring (to borrow your expression) and as long as this same poster who has admitted to having a grudge against him keeps crapping on him, I will defend Kadri the same way I have defended other Maple Leafs in the past.

There was also that time when Kadri was playing in the AHL and it was reported how Dallas Eakins said Kari's weight was ‘unacceptable’ and that started a whole media circus. So he's overcome a lot besides having Ron Wilson and Randy Carlyle coaching him at the NHL level.

Maple Leafs’ Nazem Kadri under fire for ‘unacceptable’ fat level at Marlies camp | Toronto Star

This was a disgrace IMHO and probably the biggest single biggest piece of evidence that shows how poorly Kadri was handled in the past.

Seriously your agenda is old and wrong. Kadri was a NHL Center before Shanny got to the Leafs and that was not going to change and your attempts at stating otherwise is seriously lacking in facts.

What changed is Kadri he deserves the credit for taking ownership of his off ice issues and putting them behind them. Giving anyone credit other then Kadri is wrong as only the person themselves can change no matter how hard anyone else wants it or demands it.

Kadri always has own his shortcomings and always will. The man is a player that others can learn from as he never once made excuses for his play or his issues yet he still gets no credit for changing both his game and his life.

Shanny only got his attention the rest was all Kadri.

100% correct. Unfortunately people with agendas don't let facts get in their way.

 

[Pookie]

If there is one act of frustration that I would recommend for everyone is to tile and or lay hardwood flooring, watch lots of Youtube, have lots of $$$ to fix any "F" up's ... and enjoy a job well done... as in life, similar to what Naz did, you need to find your center (of room) to be successful. Heck if you can master this one art form , you can save yourself a lot of $$$.

Thanks for the recommendation.

I would offer another one when it comes to building a solid marriage from the get go.

Get yourself something big from Ikea and using only an Allen key that is clearly not designed to be a useful tool, build it together. Consult the “instructions”... which are basically stick figurine pictures... at random points during the assembly. It also helps to assemble it in July without the AC on.

 

[Bluelines]

You do realize you are agreeing with me while putting me down right?

LOL I'm reading Dice's post and it reminds me of the time when me and the wife were going for a drive and we saw this car, it was a really sharp looking red. So I said I like that red and she said its a blue red, to my mistake I said "What?", she repeated it's a blue red, and I said it's red, she said no its a blue red, to which I stupidly said , "WTF are you talking about?" and she said, you know how reds can be an orange red or a blue red or a... and I said "It's red.", then I quickly realized that she just wanted to be right about something, although we both agreed it was a nice color but some how I manged to get dragged into and inane debate about the "true color".

You both agree you like Kadri but you don't agree on what is a reasonable reason to like him. Awesome, pass the popcorn.

 

[Bluelines]

Thanks for the recommendation.

I would offer another one when it comes to building a solid marriage from the get go.

Get yourself something big from Ikea and using only an Allen key that is clearly not designed to be a useful tool, build it together. Consult the “instructions”... which are basically stick figurine pictures... at random points during the assembly. It also helps to assemble it in July without the AC on.

Bill Burr has a great skit about building IKEA furniture.

Key to a solid marriage, just come to terms you will never be right again. Orange Red or Blue Red? Its a conundrum.