Did Kadri develop because of good Leafs player management/development or despite it?

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Albus Dumbledore

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Mar 28, 2015
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when babs was hired i said the two most transformed players would be kadri and gardiner
since babs has taken over

kadri in the tank season led the leafs with 45 points, had a career high with 61 points and 32 goals last year, and this year is on pace for 30 plus goals again, all in all shattering any previous numbers(other then the lockout shortened season but we all the the context behind that)

gardiner, had 31 points in the tank season and has followed that up with back to back 40 point seasons.
 

93LEAFS

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Nov 7, 2009
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when babs was hired i said the two most transformed players would be kadri and gardiner
since babs has taken over

kadri in the tank season led the leafs with 45 points, had a career high with 61 points and 32 goals last year, and this year is on pace for 30 plus goals again, all in all shattering any previous numbers(other then the lockout shortened season but we all the the context behind that)

gardiner, had 31 points in the tank season and has followed that up with back to back 40 point seasons.
Rielly never really had low-points prior to Babs, but I'd say Babs has also been massive in his development.
 

Albus Dumbledore

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Rielly never really had low-points prior to Babs, but I'd say Babs has also been massive in his development.
eh, the thing was rielly always had sky high potential and was much younger then the other two players, we hadnt seen enough of rielly to know what he would become other then he had the potential hard to say how much babs helped, there were some doubts about his development but hes transformed and become a 1d this year. Where as kadri and gardiner never put it together till babs and had shown that they might not ever due to age and play.
 

saltming

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I think most people can agree that Kadri has developed into a solid 2nd line centerman who has a strong all around game -- can be physical, defensively responsible most of the time, solid goal scorer (25-30g), etc.

But was this because of how well the Leafs managed him? Or despite it? I know I wasn't too happy that Kadri didn't get much time with Kessel or on the Leafs first line generally when it was just him and Bozak. But maybe he has been a bit difficult, too -- he had at least one off ice behavioral incident.

Do you hold up Kadri as an example of the Leafs having a good program?
Imo his last year with Carlyle he started to turn the corner then the circus stalled him.
Babcockand company polished and finished the product.
 
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Iapyi

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Apr 19, 2017
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When he was younger he was not ready for the NHL no matter what some internet experts think.

Just like Nylander needed some time in the NHL as well.

The maturation of his game was directed by the team and embraced by the player once he matured in real life.
 
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BoredBrandonPridham

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I get the impression that the Burke-staffed development plan was a tough-love approach. Whereas a Shanahan-staffed one is based on nurturing and setting up a plan to take a player from A to B involving nutrition, both on and off-ice coaching, on-ice shift management, and more.

We saw it with Kadri last couple of years. We saw it with Rielly and his usage last year that drove everyone nuts -- now he's having a career year.

Wasn't Kapanen given heavy defensive usage in his first year w/ the Marlies?

We saw it with, was it Marchment? Didn't he spend almost an entire year benched with the Marlies, and he spoke highly of the process he underwent to become a productive AHLer?

All I can say is that there is something very noticeably different about the program from the Marlies up to the Leafs when it comes to player development, and despite being dark on the player personnel front, they are not very quiet about the existence of this revamped approach.

With that in mind, I don't think it's any coincidence that all of a sudden "lots of draft picks are making it", even 6th rounders and 7th rounders, as they work their way through the Marlies eventually to becoming productive NHLers. Babcock, Keefe, Dubas, Hunter, Lou, Shanahan and that guy they hired for the sports science department and likely more less-publicized hires should all be given credit for this.
 
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DarkKnight

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Jan 17, 2017
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I think he was going downhill but Shanahan coming in, suspending him and telling him he can be apart of the future if he wants to be set him on the right course. Babcock got his hands on him and the rest is history.
This.
 

Warden of the North

Ned Stark's head
Apr 28, 2006
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Kadri developed mentally thanks to Shanny, Lou, and Babs.

His physical game was obviously there, but hes now achieved the stability to make him a long term asset for this organization when we compete for the Cup.
 

hullsy47

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Dec 7, 2005
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when babs was hired i said the two most transformed players would be kadri and gardiner
since babs has taken over

kadri in the tank season led the leafs with 45 points, had a career high with 61 points and 32 goals last year, and this year is on pace for 30 plus goals again, all in all shattering any previous numbers(other then the lockout shortened season but we all the the context behind that)

gardiner, had 31 points in the tank season and has followed that up with back to back 40 point seasons.
kadri was brought along nice ,same way nylander will be ..gardiner u get what u get ,he has peaked
 

ShaneFalco

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I think the team clamping down on him 2 years ago or so and sending him a strong message (wasn't he given a brief suspension by the team), really helped him get his shyte together
 
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francis246

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Nov 16, 2007
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Imo his last year with Carlyle he started to turn the corner then the circus stalled him.
Babcockand company polished and finished the product.

I have to agree. Carlyle started to get something out of him the last year he was here. Carlyle was hard on him but there is no doubt Carlyle had a positive affect on his development. At the same time I don't think Kadri's offense should be that much of a surprise. He was a beast in Junior and put up huge numbers, he's always been an offensive threat
 

ottomaddox

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Oct 31, 2017
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I credit Shanny. He suspended him and steered him in the right direction.

Before the suspension Kadri squandered many of his opportunities.

I think we have a good program, and Kadri decided to grow up.
 
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saltming

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I have to agree. Carlyle started to get something out of him the last year he was here. Carlyle was hard on him but there is no doubt Carlyle had a positive affect on his development. At the same time I don't think Kadri's offense should be that much of a surprise. He was a beast in Junior and put up huge numbers, he's always been an offensive threat
Yup it was his 2 way game that started to develop that last year with Randy.
But Babcock seemed to stabilize him and really polish that part of Kadri
 

thewave

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Jun 17, 2011
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to add further proof and stats, gards is 19th in dman scoring combing the last two years
and kadri is 15th for goals.

Both have always been good players, poor utilization by the Leafs. Kadri got jerked around like Leivo is now. For a time Jake was in the press box all the time.

Its kinda dumb to credit Babs or Shanahan for Kadri. He just got screwed around acted out some and then grew up. Who knows if the organization used him right off the bat, maybe less happens outside hockey.

Kadri and Jake only serve to prove how terribly run the TPP Nonis and Burke were.
 

Pookie

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Oct 23, 2013
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I think most people can agree that Kadri has developed into a solid 2nd line centerman who has a strong all around game -- can be physical, defensively responsible most of the time, solid goal scorer (25-30g), etc.

But was this because of how well the Leafs managed him? Or despite it? I know I wasn't too happy that Kadri didn't get much time with Kessel or on the Leafs first line generally when it was just him and Bozak. But maybe he has been a bit difficult, too -- he had at least one off ice behavioral incident.

Do you hold up Kadri as an example of the Leafs having a good program?

Organizational support was a big factor and I think Shanahan got directly involved.

But so too was his own personal decision.

There’s a segment of the fan base that hates this message but it comes from Kadri directly:

“It was literally a wake-up call for Kadri. Shanahan sat him down and made it clear he needed to cut out the off-ice excess if he wanted to be an NHL player. But he also made it clear he thought Kadri could be one of the survivors of the rebuild.

"It was a crossroads in my career and I had to make the right choice," Kadri said. "It was up to me, nobody else, to guide myself in the right direction.”

- Dec 26,2017 Nazem Kadri’s long road to Leafs' overnight success

He had talent and opportunity. He almost pissed it away. He didn’t. A massive credit goes to him for realizing his “off ice excess” and choosing the right path in the cross roads.
 

Pookie

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Oct 23, 2013
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Kadri is a great redemption story, I don’t know why people treat that as insult half the time.

Some people are so entrenched in the belief that others were holding Kadri back. Coaches. GMs. Line mates (even to this day). Luck. Misuse. These posters have backed him since the beginning.

To hear that most of the “holding back” was coming from choices he was making flies in the face of a set way of viewing the world that they have vested so much time and personal belief in.

So textbook Cogntive Dissonance.

To admit the guy had “off ice excess” or faced a choice of being in the NHL or not (as Shanahan put to him), doesn’t sit. It wasn’t external factors... it was his own.

Sadly, they miss the real beauty of the story and go on full attack mode.
 

SprDaVE

Moderator
Sep 20, 2008
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No way to know.

All we know is that he's a darn good player and we're lucky to have him on board. Glad the Leafs didn't give up on him and he didn't give up on himself.
 
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