Did Kadri develop because of good Leafs player management/development or despite it?

[IPS]

Sorry was he or was he not bought out of his contract in 2014?

Yeah and with his extreme off-ice problems (far more than Kadri) he still played 18 years as a pro.

You're really wanting to talk out of both sides of your mouth

 

[Pookie]

Our next entry on this list of pro hockey letdowns features a more recent development. As revealed by Hockey Feed this past May, the 17-year career of Nashville Predator’s center Ribeiro may have permanently gone down the drain due to another relapse into alcoholism. Ribeiro’s inability to break from the bottle lead the Predators to demote him to AHL Milwaukee, while rumors ran wild that Ribeiro was a distraction in the locker room.
Even Ribeiro’s agent Bob Perno admitted that his client’s career may be over due to this latest regression. Ribeiro missed out in the Predators’ daring run this past postseason, going all the way to the Stanley Cup Finals before bowing to the dynastic Pittsburgh Penguins. There’s always the possibility that aborting Ribeiro from the team sufficiently solidified the Preds’ chemistry, fueling their run to the Finals, so perhaps it worked out for the best. That is, except for Mr. Ribeiro.

www.thesportster.com/hockey/15-nhl-players-who-were-completely-destroyed-by-substance-abuse/

Quotes don't mean a thing apparently.

 

[Bluelines]

Quotes don't mean a thing apparently.

Indeed truthfull words have no value in 2018. Opinions now trump facts. I sincerely believe our society has never been dumber.

 

[wmark]

Quotes don't mean a thing apparently.

LOL.

 

[Pookie]

I feel really weird talking about a situation so personal to someone I've never met, and the extent of whose issues I have no context on or comprehension of. Having said that, is it outlandish at all to assume that someone with addiction and substance issues could still perform at a high capacity, while also being limited from playing at their full capacity?

Players used to smoke in between periods, or eat like **** - Do people honestly not believe that they would've been even better than they were if they were taking proper care of themselves? "Functioning" substance abusers do exist, and "High-functioning" ones do to, but to assume that they are truly at their peak of their abilities while abusing said substances seems illogical, especially if the substance they abuse can have direct consequences on their "tools" (in an NHLer's case, their body).

I would recommend people put away any specific individual situations of substance abuse regarding any people they have no direct relationship with, though. I haven't heard anything concrete about Kadri's behaviour off-ice, except that he needed to work on it. Speculating on someone's possible mental health or addiction issues based on stuff like that isn't really cool.

This is true.

The press have called it a "partying problem." "Off Ice Excess" is another term used. That said, we do not know if Kadri was in similar situations to others. We do know it was a Crossroads in his life and career... per him. We can assume it had a degree of seriousness.

And that whatever it was... it's behind him. Like this thread should be.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

Still waiting for that list of several players who were as good as Kadri but washed up due to significantly milder off-ice excesses.

How would you expect to see that, the NHL has admitted it has a "partying" problem but even talking about it will get most threads shutdown if you even suggest a player. The frankly draconian rules around talking about a player makes these conversations impossible.

 

[Bluelines]

Did a team not give him another contract the following year?

Pookie: "Players with “off ice excess” issues end their careers early all the time."

Since you said Players end their careers early all the time, why did Mike Riberio play hockey in the NHL until he was 37 years old?

Despite being bought out, and another team giving him a contract. How did his career end early as a 37 year old?

Despite having off ice excess issues, Jeff Carter is still in the NHL. Please predict when he will be out of the NHL.

Your defining the word early as equal to young. Early in this context is equal to before it should have if he lived a clean lifestyle.

 

[Gary Nylund]

You are sad and angry at me because you can’t recall me ever liking your posts?

What I said was "that's fine". How do you get from that to "sad and angry"?

No I'm not sad or angry, what I am is sick of your act. Your favourite hobby is insulting people - how many times have you used the phrase "cognitive dissonance" when responding to my posts in this thread? How about when responding to other people? You're constantly posting insults and sarcastic jabs at people and now you have the temerity to complain that you're being bullied. Like I said, grow a pair and start acting like an adult.

I'd say somewhere between 90 to 100% of your posts in this and the past I don't know how many Kadri threads are about Kadri's suspension which keeps fading further and further into the past. Have a read through some of these threads and you might notice that there are other things to discuss when it comes to Kadri who happens to be one of our best players. What happened to the "crest on the front" philosophy that you're find of repeating?

He did nearly derail. He was told that he would not be a part of the team if he did not clean up his act. I would say that's about as close as you can get to derailing from an organization as possible.

Didn't your original post refer to his entire career derailing? That's what I disagree with. Agreed that if he didn't get it together he would have been traded. Not a chance in hell that his career was anywhere close to being over as one person would have us believe.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

May I ask everyone an objective question?

In a thread about reasons as to why he developed, is this “spewing nonsense?”



I ask as that is my post on page 2 (minus the Globe and Mail quote and lead in) that has generated 10 pages of vitriol.

Is there something unreasonable about that? Some kind of “hate” hidden in the words “massive credit?”

I couldn’t care less whether @Gary Nylund agrees with me on other issues. Is this supposed to show he is objective? This is his pattern not just with me.

You used the term zealot. Maybe the leader of that group needs to take a look in the mirror.

I am 100% comfortable in my position as stated above and no amount of lying or bullying will change.

Sadly, Gary will continue to follow me around and call my posts... the exact same ones he likes with other posters... spewed nonsense.

It’s not about the issue of the day. It’s something sad and honestly, as I have said before, a little disturbing.

Nothing exists in vacuum, right or wrong you're being judged on your past posts. It's something I think we're all guilty of doing. I know I've done it a few times with people as well. We would be much better collectively as a fan base if we could just move on, who cares if someone was right or wrong five years ago. There is far too much focus on beating up people based on their opinions from years ago (not saying that's happening here more of a general observation).

 

[Gary Nylund]

This is true.

The press have called it a "partying problem." "Off Ice Excess" is another term used. That said, we do not know if Kadri was in similar situations to others. We do know it was a Crossroads in his life and career... per him. We can assume it had a degree of seriousness.

And that whatever it was... it's behind him. Like this thread should be.

Irony at it's finest. The only one who can't let go of the past is you. Three years have gone by and you're incapable of discussing any aspect of Kadri other than your idiotic theory that his career was on the verge of being over. There have been hundreds of posts on the subject in this and other threads, will you still be obsessing over this another three years from now?

 

[Gary Nylund]

Nothing exists in vacuum, right or wrong you're being judged on your past posts. It's something I think we're all guilty of doing. I know I've done it a few times with people as well. We would be much better collectively as a fan base if we could just move on, who cares if someone was right or wrong five years ago. There is far too much focus on beating up people based on their opinions from years ago (not saying that's happening here more of a general observation).

I'm glad you added that disclaimer because in this case, Pookie is being judged on past posts only to the extent that he keeps repeating them over and over again. This has been going on for three years now and as soon as he drops it, it'll be over. He doesn't seem to want to let it go though so that's where we are.

 

[wmark]

Irony at it's finest. The only one who can't let go of the past is you. Three years have gone by and you're incapable of discussing any aspect of Kadri other than your idiotic theory that his career was on the verge of being over. There have been hundreds of posts on the subject in this and other threads, will you still be obsessing over this another three years from now?

In Pookie's mind, he is infallible.

 

[Pookie]

Didn't your original post refer to his entire career derailing? That's what I disagree with. Agreed that if he didn't get it together he would have been traded. Not a chance in hell that his career was anywhere close to being over as one person would have us believe.

You mean Lou Lamoriello?

What I said was "that's fine". How do you get from that to "sad and angry"?

No I'm not sad or angry, what I am is sick of your act. Your favourite hobby is insulting people - how many times have you used the phrase "cognitive dissonance" when responding to my posts in this thread? How about when responding to other people? You're constantly posting insults and sarcastic jabs at people and now you have the temerity to complain that you're being bullied. Like I said, grow a pair and start acting like an adult.

I'd say somewhere between 90 to 100% of your posts in this and the past I don't know how many Kadri threads are about Kadri's suspension which keeps fading further and further into the past. Have a read through some of these threads and you might notice that there are other things to discuss when it comes to Kadri who happens to be one of our best players. What happened to the "crest on the front" philosophy that you're find of repeating?

Oh Gary. Forgive me if I don't agree with your assessment of my posting style. You tend to make things up so you are not exactly an authority on... well, anything.

You display cognitive dissonance. You suggest saying it makes me "look dumb" but I can assure you that my undergrad grades and degree in that subject suggest otherwise..

The reason that I haven't liked your posts is that I have you on ignore. Sorry but I do.

I do make a mistake in Kadri threads. I click on "show ignored content" as you tend to get really personal with me and sometimes I can't resist. I post. You show up. Single me out... even when the opinion is shared by many. Just like this thread. You could set your watch to it. For that, I apologize to the HF Community. I should be stronger.

I have no idea if you start funny threads or insightful ones. I have no idea how you feel about incidents in a game. I have no idea about your predictions for the season.

Quite frankly, I saw the channel and opted to turn it off.

I don't know what you are like in real life but on here, you add nothing positive to my experience. I chose to ignore you. My prerogative. Here's the good news, you have the same option.

My suggestion, if you really are "sick of my act"... hit ignore and stick to it. I suspect you won't though as that's not your schtick. You seem to enjoy the attention.

But I can tell you that this forum would be a lot happier if we both just looked the other way. And I suspect that threads wouldn't get shut down as a result.

I'm willing... how about you?

 

[Pookie]

In Pookie's mind, he is infallible.

My wife would suggest otherwise.

You are inviting me to attend an argument and I'm going to decline.

 

[thewave]

What I said was "that's fine". How do you get from that to "sad and angry"?

No I'm not sad or angry, what I am is sick of your act. Your favourite hobby is insulting people - how many times have you used the phrase "cognitive dissonance" when responding to my posts in this thread? How about when responding to other people? You're constantly posting insults and sarcastic jabs at people and now you have the temerity to complain that you're being bullied. Like I said, grow a pair and start acting like an adult.

I'd say somewhere between 90 to 100% of your posts in this and the past I don't know how many Kadri threads are about Kadri's suspension which keeps fading further and further into the past. Have a read through some of these threads and you might notice that there are other things to discuss when it comes to Kadri who happens to be one of our best players. What happened to the "crest on the front" philosophy that you're find of repeating?



Didn't your original post refer to his entire career derailing? That's what I disagree with. Agreed that if he didn't get it together he would have been traded. Not a chance in hell that his career was anywhere close to being over as one person would have us believe.

I didn't say his career or his relationship with the team in the original post. I am just clearing that up and saying that I meant with the Leafs specifically.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

So we all agree Kadri's doing well and are happy for him, we're just arguing about when we think he turned it around.. I mean I'm not the only one who thinks that's a little nuts am I?

 

[araisarena]

Yes and no. Kadri always had ability to take over games, be impactful and play a great all around game. From AAA to Kitchener to London he's always played against other teams best, played PK, PP, and shown. Burke and Nonis regime didn't believe in him because his name isn't Nathan. Simple. What about Tyler Bozak, Peter Holland or Joffrey Lupul at center with Kessel from a hockey perspective gives you a better chance than Kadri? Same regime. The kid has dominated at every level, is excelling in his current position and I still believe has more room to grow because he's a 60 point forward without playing with any high end wingers consistently his whole career. I'd like to imagine him making the jump to 70 points year in and year out playing tough match ups and PP if Marner is glued to his line. Kadri does so many things well offensively and even without points still generates scoring chances.

 

[IPS]

So we all agree Kadri's doing well and are happy for him, we're just arguing about when we think he turned it around.. I mean I'm not the only one who thinks that's a little nuts am I?

It's more about a guy who's trying to argue that Kadri was almost out of the league a few years back to try and save face and justify his ridiculous agenda against him.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

Yes and no. Kadri always had ability to take over games, be impactful and play a great all around game. From AAA to Kitchener to London he's always played against other teams best, played PK, PP, and shown. Burke and Nonis regime didn't believe in him because his name isn't Nathan. Simple. What about Tyler Bozak, Peter Holland or Joffrey Lupul at center with Kessel from a hockey perspective gives you a better chance than Kadri? Same regime. The kid has dominated at every level, is excelling in his current position and I still believe has more room to grow because he's a 60 point forward without playing with any high end wingers consistently his whole career. I'd like to imagine him making the jump to 70 points year in and year out playing tough match ups and PP if Marner is glued to his line. Kadri does so many things well offensively and even without points still generates scoring chances.

Kessel carried one line, Kadri carried the other. Kadri not being with Kessel was because they wanted Kadri running his own line. It wasn't that they thought Bozak was better, if they truly thought Bozak was better he would be making more money. Burke drafted him, how did he not believe in him?

Suggesting he wasn't Kessel's center because of racism is a little ridiculous.

 

[Pookie]

So we all agree Kadri's doing well and are happy for him, we're just arguing about when we think he turned it around.. I mean I'm not the only one who thinks that's a little nuts am I?

Some people are arguing against what Lou Lamoriello and David Shoalts said. Not sure I should be honoured or disturbed that they think it was me who wrote the article or was quoted.

But no, you aren't the only one who thinks this whole thing is nuts.

 

[Bluelines]

Y

You display cognitive dissonance. You suggest saying it makes me "look dumb" but I can assure you that my undergrad grades and degree in that subject suggest otherwise..

Phoenix University?

 

[Pookie]

Phoenix University?

Phoenix State Tech University of Ohio

 

[saffronleaf]

Introduce him to google .... plenty of articles about NHL players who washed out due to substance abuse,

Still waiting for this elusive list of many players who were as good as Kadri but had their careers killed due to significantly milder off-ice excesses.

That was the original claim. Now you're saying 'Google it' and another said that we cannot discuss off-ice excesses or it would result in bans. How convenient.

How about just not making claims that can't be backed up? We don't even know what Kadri exactly did, so how can this assertion ever be proved right or wrong? It's a hollow assertion.

 

[saffronleaf]

Nothing exists in vacuum, right or wrong you're being judged on your past posts. It's something I think we're all guilty of doing. I know I've done it a few times with people as well. We would be much better collectively as a fan base if we could just move on, who cares if someone was right or wrong five years ago. There is far too much focus on beating up people based on their opinions from years ago (not saying that's happening here more of a general observation).

A good way to start moving on would be for the person who was egregiously wrong and hateful for several years to acknowledge how wrong they were and apologize for the hatred they spewed.

 

[Bluelines]

Still waiting for this elusive list of many players who were as good as Kadri but had their careers killed due to significantly milder off-ice excesses.

That was the original claim. Now you're saying 'Google it' and another said that we cannot discuss off-ice excesses or it would result in bans. How convenient.

How about just not making claims that can't be backed up? We don't even know what Kadri exactly did, so how can this assertion ever be proved right or wrong? It's a hollow assertion.

Impossible to answer because "as good as Kadri" could be anywhere from a 1st line top 30 center to a 3rd line checking forward that can score, depending on who you ask.

So again there are literally pages of "players who's NHL carrer ended due to substance abuse" articles.

You can read those articles and based on how good you feel Kadri is, can then filter out the chum.