Did Kadri develop because of good Leafs player management/development or despite it?

[saffronleaf]

I think most people can agree that Kadri has developed into a solid 2nd line centerman who has a strong all around game -- can be physical, defensively responsible most of the time, solid goal scorer (25-30g), etc.

But was this because of how well the Leafs managed him? Or despite it? I know I wasn't too happy that Kadri didn't get much time with Kessel or on the Leafs first line generally when it was just him and Bozak. But maybe he has been a bit difficult, too -- he had at least one off ice behavioral incident.

Do you hold up Kadri as an example of the Leafs having a good program?

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[bonjovi0308]

I think Babcock transformed him

 

[LeafsNation75]

I agree that Babcock was the major reason why.

 

[Brobust]

Man, that's tough. I do think he was pretty good before Babcock.

He'd probably be a 2nd/3rd line point machine on some other team if Babcock didn't come along.

Now, he a solid centre who can play against anyone in the league. In fact, it seems like he plays better the bigger the challenge facing him is.

I can't wait to see this guy in the middle of a deep playoff run. It'll be incredible.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Yes I do. End results matter when you talk about development. We can argue about whether the early part of his career were handled right - which is directed at a different management team - but in the end they found a way to get him confident in his offensive abilities, they have taught him to be a strong one-on-one defender, and they've managed to push all the right buttons.

I think you start talking about McDavid or Eichel when you talk about developing despite their situation, guys that are in an abysmal situation but thrive because they are just too talented. Kadri was far from a safe bet to become a player of this quality.

 

[Tlo1]

Maybe cause he's a hugely talented hockey player? Nah that couldn't be it.

 

[BertCorbeau]

I think it is because of the Leafs' player development. He really bought into Babcock's coaching and commitment on/off the ice. It really speaks to the influence Babs' has on these guys.

 

[Menzinger]

Despite.

The leafs player developmental system under Burke-Nonis era was absolutely dreadful. He responded well once he finally got consistent icetime.

Post 2014 though I think he has benefited a bit more from the system they’ve put in place (He’s really responded so well to Babcock).

 

[MyBudJT]

Anyone else remember the reactions (lots of disapointment) from the 2009 draft when we selected Kadri??

 

[1specter]

In b4 pookie

 

[1specter]

Anyone else remember the reactions (lots of disapointment) from the 2009 draft when we selected Kadri??

Lol all the crying over MPS/MSP

 

[Brown Dog]

Despite.

The leafs player developmental system under Burke-Nonis era was absolutely dreadful. He responded well once he finally got consistent icetime.

Post 2014 though I think he has benefited a bit more from the system they’ve put in place (He’s really responded so well to Babcock).

Easy there. I still have high hopes for Kenny Ryan.

 

[WillyFirstofhisName]

Anyone else remember the reactions (lots of disapointment) from the 2009 draft when we selected Kadri??

We didn't trade for Schenn or Tavares!!! WTeff Burke!

 

[Buds17]

Equal credit to the team and Kadri himself. Think the six year contract speaks to a good situation for both player and team.

 

[WillyFirstofhisName]

...tbh I still look at this video from time to time.

Burke was too brash for the media circus here. He gave them exactly what they wanted. I love Lou's "you know nothing" approach.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I think he was going downhill but Shanahan coming in, suspending him and telling him he can be apart of the future if he wants to be set him on the right course. Babcock got his hands on him and the rest is history.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Maybe cause he's a hugely talented hockey player? Nah that couldn't be it.

He is but that doesn't mean that the handling of his development by the team didn't have an impact on him. Ron Wilson really didn't like Kadri and yo-yo'ed him the whole time he was coach. Carlyle was a bit better but still wasn't doing right with Kadri. Kadri also had some off ice issues that were only really taken care of when Shanahan came in and took a direct hand in his development, and got rid of alleged bad influences (Cough Lupul Cough).

Lots of players have talent but aren't developed properly, given the right opportunities, or are just in the wrong organization at the wrong time (Yakupov). So yeah, Kadri had the skill, he just needed the guidance and opportunity to prove himself and evolve into the player he is today. There's no doubt that Shanahan and Babcock have had a huge influence on him as a player and person, and now Kadri and the team get to reap the rewards.

Thank God it happened here. Otherwise if some had had their way and he was traded, his breakout would've happened somewhere else and Kadri would be this generations Alex Steen.

 

[Gary Nylund]

This is a trick question because Kadri was under 2+ regimes, we can roughly divide them into before/after Shanahan taking over. He was a solid #2C despite management, he is what he is now because of the new management. That's simplifying things but pretty accurate nevertheless IMO.

 

[TMLeafs17]

Definitely in spite of it, until Babs came in.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Despite.

The leafs player developmental system under Burke-Nonis era was absolutely dreadful. He responded well once he finally got consistent icetime.

Post 2014 though I think he has benefited a bit more from the system they’ve put in place (He’s really responded so well to Babcock).

well that's just grossly unfair considering Kadri himself gives Babcock and Shanahan a crap tonne of credit for helping him turn his game around. that' alone means "because of" not "despite"

He is but that doesn't mean that the handling of his development by the team didn't have an impact on him. Ron Wilson really didn't like Kadri and yo-yo'ed him the whole time he was coach. Carlyle was a bit better but still wasn't doing right with Kadri. Kadri also had some off ice issues that were only really taken care of when Shanahan came in and took a direct hand in his development, and got rid of alleged bad influences (Cough Lupul Cough).

Lots of players have talent but aren't developed properly, given the right opportunities, or are just in the wrong organization at the wrong time (Yakupov). So yeah, Kadri had the skill, he just needed the guidance and opportunity to prove himself and evolve into the player he is today. There's no doubt that Shanahan and Babcock have had a huge influence on him as a player and person, and now Kadri and the team get to reap the rewards.

Thank God it happened here. Otherwise if some had had their way and he was traded, his breakout would've happened somewhere else and Kadri would be this generations Alex Steen.

I don't know why people lament over Alex Steen like we missed out on on someone incredible awesome or even impactful.

to answer the question, I would say it would lay somewhere in the middle. I personally feel that a lot of people (maybe a majority of people) want to put it on Burke/Nonis, or Shanagement, (or just Kadri).

I personally feel that Kadri always had the skill and if not for Carlyle telling Nonis he'd be stupid to trade Kadri, Kadri would be gone. I do think Carlyle was helpful for some aspects for Kadri's game even though to a lot of people, they don't because Carlyle was "mean" to Kadri in the media.

This part is tricky for me, because I have to be consistent however i also need to acknowledge this part - I do feel Shanahan and babcock having the come to Jesus/intervention with Kadri and his parents pretty much saved his career here in Toronto because Kadri could have easily have gone "whatever" and I think had that been his reaction - Kadri would have been traded. That takes a lot of maturity to do. However everything up until that point shouldn't have been on management either. like I think Kadri was a bit immature and i do think an individual should know when to grow up and get his career together. it's taking ownership of your life and it shouldn't be expected for Management to step in and make you face it (and I think we need to call a spade a spade. If this wasn't Naz but it was someone really on the fence, you'd have to wonder if it happens. probably not).

i personally see Kadri as the end result of the saying "it takes a village to raise a child."
it was a good chunk of himself, a good chunk of several different people (not just the "good bits), and good overall management

 

[Gary Nylund]

Despite.

The leafs player developmental system under Burke-Nonis era was absolutely dreadful. He responded well once he finally got consistent icetime.

Post 2014 though I think he has benefited a bit more from the system they’ve put in place (He’s really responded so well to Babcock).

Truth. So happy it all worked out. 2 more goals tonight. Beauty!

 

[93LEAFS]

Grew up, combined with Babcock. Not that Wilson or Carlyle helped him. Its pretty clear its in a grey-area. But, he wasn't the most professional person early on in his career.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Grew up, combined with Babcock. Not that Wilson or Carlyle helped him. Its pretty clear its in a grey-area. But, he wasn't the most professional person early on in his career.

to be fair, i don't think our management or coaching was the most conducive to helping young players thrive either

 

[thewave]

Kadri was always good. If anything the former coaches misused him and did not give him a fair shot in the right capacity. Kadri was essentially treated to a lesser extent like Leivo is now. Kadri made Kadri, he always had the same skills. He discovered he liked playing with heavy checkers back as a kid and has played with edge ever since.

0 credit should be given to Babcock for Kadri. Babcock gets credit for using Kadri properly.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Grew up, combined with Babcock. Not that Wilson or Carlyle helped him. Its pretty clear its in a grey-area. But, he wasn't the most professional person early on in his career.

yet, Kadri said Carlyle did.
quite frankly i don't think he'd say it if he didn't think it's true.