Did Bettman try and save the Jets?

SlapnutsV1

Registered User
Nov 28, 2005
1,468
0
Denver, CO
I dont think Pittsburgh deserves the team. Their municipal and state govt have done jack all to help the Penguins stay and have dragged their feet for the better part of a decade on Lemieux's new arena. No matter how much the fans support the team they'll still get screwed in the future.

That doesn't even make sense.

Punish the Penguins' fans because western Pennsylvania's politicans won't build a new multi-purpose (and yes, it is multi-purpose) arena in Pittsburgh?

I'd love to see how so many people who post here would here if roles were reversed and their NHL team was the one that could possibly be relocated.
 

byebyebettman

Registered User
Jan 10, 2007
52
0
St. John's, NL
Spare us from your egotistical "we're Canadian therefore we must be better than you" drivel.

Listen here son, Canadian hockey fans are better than American ones, sure the States do have some good ones. Just like Canada has some really good baseball and football fans. But the thing is it's our game, someone else decided that we share it with you, sure no problem, as long as we can control our own game. But then some basketball guy by the name of Gary Bettman, hired by the greedy owners then stabs us in the back more than once. All for what? Money. Though this won't happen You tell me what it would feel like to have the Suns ripped away from you. Or the Diamondbacks bought by Canadian ownership. And just for more money? Not caring about fans? Canadian fans may seem a bit hostile toward American fans. And we always will be im sure. We are bitter to the end because of the fact that teams are being ripped away from us. Why should Phoenix have a team before Winnipeg? Just because of money? Just because they have a bigger population? Is that the excuse? I'm not trying to create any big problem, but next time a Canadian fan is a bit hostile towards you, don't be arrogant towards them. Try to understand what their going through. Geez if there's one thing that ticks me off...
 

Sotnos

Registered User
Jul 8, 2002
10,885
1
Not here
www.boltprospects.com
Canadian fans may seem a bit hostile toward American fans.
Yeah, just a teensy bit. :rolleyes: Thankfully there are a lot more that are good, open-minded people who like the idea of growing the game than there are folks like you.

It's a shame, because a few years ago we had almost zero people with your attitude here, and the ones who had it got laughed at til they took off.

Listen here son, Canadian hockey fans are better than American ones
And you're calling other people arrogant?
 

kdb209

Registered User
Jan 26, 2005
14,870
6
Listen here son, Canadian hockey fans are better than American ones, sure the States do have some good ones. Just like Canada has some really good baseball and football fans. But the thing is it's our game, someone else decided that we share it with you, sure no problem, as long as we can control our own game. But then some basketball guy by the name of Gary Bettman, hired by the greedy owners then stabs us in the back more than once. All for what? Money. Though this won't happen You tell me what it would feel like to have the Suns ripped away from you. Or the Diamondbacks bought by Canadian ownership. And just for more money? Not caring about fans? Canadian fans may seem a bit hostile toward American fans. And we always will be im sure. We are bitter to the end because of the fact that teams are being ripped away from us. Why should Phoenix have a team before Winnipeg? Just because of money? Just because they have a bigger population? Is that the excuse? I'm not trying to create any big problem, but next time a Canadian fan is a bit hostile towards you, don't be arrogant towards them. Try to understand what their going through. Geez if there's one thing that ticks me off...
The NHL (and all major professional sports) is a business - always has been, always will be. It is all about money - always has been, always will be. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a naive fool.

The team doesn't belong to you or to me or to Winnipeg or to Phoenix. It belongs to whoever the franchise owner is, and he makes whatever business decision he wants to, whether to sell, to move, or do anything else, for whatever reason he wants to, and he doesn't have to justify it to you or to me.
 

byebyebettman

Registered User
Jan 10, 2007
52
0
St. John's, NL
Yeah, just a teensy bit. :rolleyes: Thankfully there are a lot more that are good, open-minded people who like the idea of growing the game than there are folks like you.

It's a shame, because a few years ago we had almost zero people with your attitude here, and the ones who had it got laughed at til they took off.


And you're calling other people arrogant?

Well you don't have much to worry about, I won't be spending too much time on this board, and I guess that was kind of arrogant, but like I said, put yourself in that situation. I could say there are people who know the game and are tired of seeing it fail in Southern markets then there are folks like you.

How far has growing the game got you? I think USA has had it's turn growing the game and we need a saviour to return some of it to us, small market or not. Am I saying that hockey should'nt be in the USA? No, I think the USA is integral to the survival of the game, or business. But the way it has been run is not good.
 

Northern Dancer

The future ain't what it used to be.
Mar 2, 2002
15,199
13
5 K from the ACC
Listen here son, Canadian hockey fans are better than American ones, sure the States do have some good ones. Just like Canada has some really good baseball and football fans. But the thing is it's our game, someone else decided that we share it with you, sure no problem, as long as we can control our own game. But then some basketball guy by the name of Gary Bettman, hired by the greedy owners then stabs us in the back more than once. All for what? Money. Though this won't happen You tell me what it would feel like to have the Suns ripped away from you. Or the Diamondbacks bought by Canadian ownership. And just for more money? Not caring about fans? Canadian fans may seem a bit hostile toward American fans. And we always will be im sure. We are bitter to the end because of the fact that teams are being ripped away from us. Why should Phoenix have a team before Winnipeg? Just because of money? Just because they have a bigger population? Is that the excuse? I'm not trying to create any big problem, but next time a Canadian fan is a bit hostile towards you, don't be arrogant towards them. Try to understand what their going through. Geez if there's one thing that ticks me off...

This is probably the worst post I have seen in some time. :shakehead :shakehead :shakehead
 

GSC2k2*

Guest
And yet my satirical posts on the last page (wherein I gently satirized this kind of attitude) got deleted, while this one - a real live example of the odious views that that I was satirizing - remains.
 

Sotnos

Registered User
Jul 8, 2002
10,885
1
Not here
www.boltprospects.com
Well you don't have much to worry about, I won't be spending too much time on this board
Thank god for small favors, as the saying goes. :)

And yet my satirical posts on the last page (wherein I gently satirized this kind of attitude) got deleted, while this one - a real live example of the odious views that that I was satirizing - remains.
Interesting. That's too bad, I thought it was pretty funny. I had meant to point out to you that you should have used the preferred Bettman spelling in such a post (which would be Buttman) but didn't get around to it. :D
 

GSC2k2*

Guest
Thank god for small favors, as the saying goes. :)


Interesting. That's too bad, I thought it was pretty funny. I had meant to point out to you that you should have used the preferred Bettman spelling in such a post (which would be Buttman) but didn't get around to it. :D
Point taken. My oversight.
 

howlincoyote2k1

Registered User
Apr 14, 2005
795
0
Provo, Utah
Listen here son, Canadian hockey fans are better than American ones, sure the States do have some good ones. Just like Canada has some really good baseball and football fans. But the thing is it's our game, someone else decided that we share it with you, sure no problem, as long as we can control our own game. But then some basketball guy by the name of Gary Bettman, hired by the greedy owners then stabs us in the back more than once. All for what? Money. Though this won't happen You tell me what it would feel like to have the Suns ripped away from you. Or the Diamondbacks bought by Canadian ownership. And just for more money? Not caring about fans? Canadian fans may seem a bit hostile toward American fans. And we always will be im sure. We are bitter to the end because of the fact that teams are being ripped away from us. Why should Phoenix have a team before Winnipeg? Just because of money? Just because they have a bigger population? Is that the excuse? I'm not trying to create any big problem, but next time a Canadian fan is a bit hostile towards you, don't be arrogant towards them. Try to understand what their going through. Geez if there's one thing that ticks me off...

so what are we supposed to do, say "oh, i'm so sorry, i should have understood? here, have your hockey team back, and a couple cookies too"?

you listen here, son, this is 2007, and in 2007, money talks.
 

Killiecrankie*

Guest
Listen here son, Canadian hockey fans are better than American ones, sure the States do have some good ones. Just like Canada has some really good baseball and football fans. But the thing is it's our game, someone else decided that we share it with you, sure no problem, as long as we can control our own game. But then some basketball guy by the name of Gary Bettman, hired by the greedy owners then stabs us in the back more than once. All for what? Money. Though this won't happen You tell me what it would feel like to have the Suns ripped away from you. Or the Diamondbacks bought by Canadian ownership. And just for more money? Not caring about fans? Canadian fans may seem a bit hostile toward American fans. And we always will be im sure. We are bitter to the end because of the fact that teams are being ripped away from us. Why should Phoenix have a team before Winnipeg? Just because of money? Just because they have a bigger population? Is that the excuse? I'm not trying to create any big problem, but next time a Canadian fan is a bit hostile towards you, don't be arrogant towards them. Try to understand what their going through. Geez if there's one thing that ticks me off...

Listen son, Ive been playing the game since I was 4. Son Ive literally 800 pens games taped. Listen son my family has been a season ticket holder since 1984. Listen son this game is as much mine as it is yours. Do everyone a favor and never post again.

Why should Phoenix have a team before Winnipeg?

Phoenix population: 3,865,077
Winnipeg population: 619,544+706,900(in the "rural" surrounding areas)

Phoenix fortune 500 companies: 7
Winnipeg Fortune 500 companies: 0


Now I would not want to see ANYONE lose their team, and I hope Winnipeg and Quebec City get new arenas and get their teams back,, BUT this poster has really ticked me off.
 

Jazz

Registered User
Thank you for making the rest of us look bad....... :shakehead

Well you don't have much to worry about, I won't be spending too much time on this board, and I guess that was kind of arrogant, but like I said, put yourself in that situation. I could say there are people who know the game and are tired of seeing it fail in Southern markets then there are folks like you.

How far has growing the game got you? I think USA has had it's turn growing the game and we need a saviour to return some of it to us, small market or not. Am I saying that hockey should'nt be in the USA? No, I think the USA is integral to the survival of the game, or business. But the way it has been run is not good.

Thank god!
 

vivianmb

Registered User
Jan 10, 2007
2,891
2
winnipeg
www.whocares.ca
Listen son, Ive been playing the game since I was 4. Son Ive literally 800 pens games taped. Listen son my family has been a season ticket holder since 1984. Listen son this game is as much mine as it is yours. Do everyone a favor and never post again.

Why should Phoenix have a team before Winnipeg?

Phoenix population: 3,865,077
Winnipeg population: 619,544+706,900(in the "rural" surrounding areas)

Phoenix fortune 500 companies: 7
Winnipeg Fortune 500 companies: 0


Now I would not want to see ANYONE lose their team, and I hope Winnipeg and Quebec City get new arenas and get their teams back,, BUT this poster has really ticked me off.

and it IS a shame that american corporations have ruined yet another part of our lives...hockey. :banghead:
i mean the day that a city's amount of corporations rules over it's amount of fans has arrived. thanks NHL.
 

vivianmb

Registered User
Jan 10, 2007
2,891
2
winnipeg
www.whocares.ca
this is from the sporting news.

January 3, 2007


Happy New Year to everyone! There's been no shortage of hockey news over the past few weeks -- Rory Fitzpatrick and the All-Star controversy, the ongoing World Junior Championships -- but probably the biggest news item over my break was the never-ending franchise instability in Pittsburgh, and I have more than a few thoughts about this mess.


The notion that a traditional hockey market, Pittsburgh, could get shafted with a move of the Penguins frosts me. Yes, I'm cynical: I'm taking NHL commissioner Gary Bettman's supposed grand attempts to keep the franchise in Pittsburgh with a grain of salt -- I don't buy it. The newly-rumored destinations are also shocking to me -- Kansas City? Didn't we go through this once before back in the 1970s? Wonderful. Another corporate outpost that will have invested little hockey time but will buy a preformed entertainment package all ready to market and sell to potential fans. Hey, here's an alternative for Kansas City sports fans: how about someone finding a replacement for David Glass and restoring a once-proud franchise? He and I might, perhaps, define our love of sports differently.

...



i think that sums up my feelings as well as a lot of people i know in both connecticut where i live, and manitoba , where i iam moving to. ( coincidentally both have lost teams to the greed. shame they are both awesome hockey areas.)
if you dont get it thats fine, but remember we LOVE and LIVE hockey. and it is breaking a lot of hearts to see what the nhl has done to it and in turn to US.
 
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AdmiralPred

Registered User
Jun 9, 2005
1,923
0
so what are we supposed to do, say "oh, i'm so sorry, i should have understood? here, have your hockey team back, and a couple cookies too"?

you listen here, son, this is 2007, and in 2007, money talks.
It talked just as much in the 1920s, 30s, 40s, 1860s, 1710s, you get my point.
 

byebyebettman

Registered User
Jan 10, 2007
52
0
St. John's, NL
Listen son, Ive been playing the game since I was 4. Son Ive literally 800 pens games taped. Listen son my family has been a season ticket holder since 1984. Listen son this game is as much mine as it is yours. Do everyone a favor and never post again.

Why should Phoenix have a team before Winnipeg?

Phoenix population: 3,865,077
Winnipeg population: 619,544+706,900(in the "rural" surrounding areas)

Phoenix fortune 500 companies: 7
Winnipeg Fortune 500 companies: 0


Now I would not want to see ANYONE lose their team, and I hope Winnipeg and Quebec City get new arenas and get their teams back,, BUT this poster has really ticked me off.

Like I said, population and money. That's all you need to get a team these days. And I never said anything about Pittsburgh. If anything i'd like them to stay right where they are and get a new rink Pittsburgh is a good hockey market and, hopefully you can keep your team, they will be winning cups very soon, unfortunately the same situation happens with the Nordiques. I'd hate to see KC win the cup in their first year if they get a team.

1984, the year of Mario. I'll bet you don't remember the couple of years before when there were only a bit over 6K in the stands.
 

Sotnos

Registered User
Jul 8, 2002
10,885
1
Not here
www.boltprospects.com
Firstly: (yeah yeah old habits die hard and all that)
7) Copyrighted Material: Generally you can assume that anything you find online is copyrighted. We prefer you post a synopsis in your own words and the link to the article, but it's permissible to quote a few lines. DO NOT POST ENTIRE ARTICLES.
That writer is naive, not to mention full of BS. He (and presumably you) are expecting new markets to behave the same as markets that are 40+ years old.

if you dont get it thats fine, but remember we LOVE and LIVE hockey. and it is breaking a lot of hearts to see what the nhl has done to it and in turn to US.
You do realize that people outside of your little "approved hockey areas" also love hockey, do you not?
 

CoolburnIsGone

Guest
You know I see a lot of "love hockey" and "breaking hearts" and "understanding what the Candian fan is going thru". :shakehead Its semi-irrelevant when you're in a BUSINESS OF HOCKEY forum and those things have very little to do with the business of the league and the original topic of the thread. :banghead:

I don't think anyone really questions the love of hockey in Canada or more traditional markets or how hard it must be to lose a franchise in said areas. But I'll quote the movie 'Secret of My Success' when I say, "Love is Love but Business is Business."
 

AdmiralPred

Registered User
Jun 9, 2005
1,923
0
And yet my satirical posts on the last page (wherein I gently satirized this kind of attitude) got deleted, while this one - a real live example of the odious views that that I was satirizing - remains.
There isn't a law against stupidity, laziness, or failing to think before you type. The edge of that sword is saved for those who condemn the offenders with an equally less-than-civil retort.
 
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vivianmb

Registered User
Jan 10, 2007
2,891
2
winnipeg
www.whocares.ca
Firstly: (yeah yeah old habits die hard and all that)

That writer is naive, not to mention full of BS. He (and presumably you) are expecting new markets to behave the same as markets that are 40+ years old.


You do realize that people outside of your little "approved hockey areas" also love hockey, do you not?

yes , but not in the mass numbers as in" my little approved hockey areas"
 

HandshakeLine

A real jerk thing
Nov 9, 2005
47,761
31,603
Praha, CZ
yes , but not in the mass numbers as in" my little approved hockey areas"

You do realize that Phoenix would be the 2nd largest population center in Canada if it was located there? Give a team 100 years there and you'll have a market that would rival Toronto.
 

hexrae

Registered User
Jun 29, 2006
1,602
11
Peg City
It's a shame people feel the need to resort to playground antics in these threads.

PensinPittsburgh said:
Winnipeg Fortune 500 companies: 0

Last time I looked this was a listing of the top 500 American public corporations. The Canadian Business magazine recently released the Rich 100 list, of which there are 4 Manitoban's.
 

GSC2k2*

Guest
yes , but not in the mass numbers as in" my little approved hockey areas"
I constantly hear how Winnipeg is a "hockey hotbed", and people "live and breathe hockey, and "hockey is a religion".

Yet, when they had an NHL team, there was not more than an average of 13,000 souls (and substantially less in certain years) who cared enough to plunk down their hard-earned dollars. Arena or not, the numbers are the numbers. In my view, this does not demonstrate a market that is a "hotbed" where people "live and breathe hockey". Heresy, I know, but the only piece of evidence to the contrary is that Winnipeg is located in Canada. To that I say this is evidence of nothing when it comes to evaluating a market.

What's more, Winnipeg seems to have been exempt from the apparent epidemic that has been around for many years of teams fudging their attendance numbers higher. but I digress.

Winnipeg (and Hartford, I might add) are failed NHL markets. If people do not support the product with their dollars in a market, it is a failed market. That is a bitter pill to swallow, but that is what it is. Now one can argue whether circumstances are changed since those failures such as would warrant a diferent outcome, but the markets failed, and they have been moved to markets which are empirically demonstrated to contain more souls who will plunk down their money to attend the product.

It makes me laugh out loud to read suggestions that the teams were moved to markets which have been failures as if they have been less successful. Like it or not, that is not the case.

There is no debate on this for anyone who is not xenophobic.

One can debate whether things are changed (I see no evidence), but one cannot debate what has happened.
 

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