GDT: Devils vs. Stars - 7:00 PM - MSG+

[devilsblood]

Great. When he is 25 he might be good.

He's good now.

 

[Blender]

Development is not a straight line. This isn't a video game.

 

[JimEIV]

He's good now.

So is blake coleman. Neither are changing the direction of this team.

 

[devilsblood]

So is blake coleman. Neither are changing the direction of this team.

Blake Coleman is 28.

 

[JimEIV]

Development is not a straight line. This isn't a video game.

I think the problem is Nico's development has been a straight line.

 

[JimEIV]

Blake Coleman is 28.

What does this mean? To me it implies that you are expecting some sort of exponential improvement in time....if that is a fair statement, what in the world gives you that hope?

 

[devilsblood]

What does this mean? To me it implies that you are expecting some sort of exponential improvement in time....if that is a fair statement, what in the world gives you that hope?

I expect the standard NHL player improvement.

 

[Blackjack]

What does this mean? To me it implies that you are expecting some sort of exponential improvement in time....if that is a fair statement, what in the world gives you that hope?

How about 16 points in 19 games since Hall was traded? That's a 70 point pace over nearly a quarter of a season.

 

[JimEIV]

I expect the standard NHL player improvement.

You literally haven't seen production improvement in 3 straight years. So you expect a more refine 50-is point player in the future? A 60 point player top out at 70 ish in his best year? Hardly foundational.

 

[glenwo2]

Jim, I have a question :

Do you WANT Nico to be a failure?

Curious...

 

[devilsblood]

You literally haven't seen production improvement in 3 straight years. So you expect a more refine 50-is point player in the future? A 60 point player top out at 70 ish in his best year? Hardly foundational.

A 70 point center who plays a 200 ft game is absolutely a foundational piece. 100% the type of player you can build around.

 

[JimEIV]

How about 16 points in 19 games since Hall was traded? That's a 70 point pace over nearly a quarter of a season.

A lot of players have streaks in a short stretchs. ...Nico is on 3 years of nearly identical ppg.

 

[Blender]

You literally haven't seen production improvement in 3 straight years. So you expect a more refine 50-is point player in the future? A 60 point player top out at 70 ish in his best year? Hardly foundational.

I mean this is just a lie.

D+1 - 52 points in 82 games
D+2 - 47 points in 69 games (55 point pace over 82 games)
D+3 - 32 points in 46 games so far (57 point pace over 82 games). If you project his current pace since the Hall trade, he's on track to hit 58 points in 77 games (61 point pace over 82 games)

He's absolutely improved, but the thing he is still lacking is top quality power play production. His even strength production has been and continues to be among the best.

 

[Blender]

A 70 point center who plays a 200 ft game is absolutely a foundational piece. 100% the type of player you can build around.

Bergeron was one of the most important players in the league for years, for example. Every team would have killed to get that guy.

 

[JimEIV]

A 70 point center who plays a 200 ft game is absolutely a foundational piece. 100% the type of player you can build around.

70 points guaranteed is a lot different than topping out at 70 one year. Nico is miles away from being a 70 point player. And 70 points is going to be low tier 1st line production their is nothing dominant or elite about the variables we are talking about.

 

[Blender]

70 points guaranteed is a lot different than topping out at 70 one year. Nico is miles away from being a 70 point player. And 70 points is going to be low tier 1st line production their is nothing dominant or elite about the variables we are talking about.

No, he's really not "miles away". He's mediocre power play production away from hitting 70 points, which isn't that difficult of an ask if the team had anything close to a competent power play.

Even strength production is a far better indicator of future success, as power play production fluctuates wildly.

 

[Darkauron]

If you cant see that Nico has improved since being in the NHL, I have no idea what to tell you. Because everyyyyyyyything is all about putting up points.

 

[JimEIV]

I mean this is just a lie.

D+1 - 52 points in 82 games
D+2 - 47 points in 69 games (55 point pace over 82 games)
D+3 - 32 points in 46 games so far (57 point pace over 82 games). If you project his current pace since the Hall trade, he's on track to hit 58 points in 77 games (61 point pace over 82 games)

He's absolutely improved, but the thing he is still lacking is top quality power play production. His even strength production has been and continues to be among the best.

Year one .63 ppg
Year Two .68 ppg
Year 3 .69 ppg

Career .66 ppg game.

There is zero improvement in 3 years that is a flat line.

 

[Blackjack]

A lot of players have streaks in a short stretchs. ...Nico is on 3 years of nearly identical ppg.

He was on a good team, a playoff team, 2 years ago. His linemate won the Hart trophy. Are you saying that Nico today is not a better player than he was in his rookie year?

 

[JimEIV]

.06 ppg is a 5 point spread over 82 games in 3 years that his progress.

 

[Blackjack]

Year one .63 ppg
Year Two .68 ppg
Year 3 .69 ppg

Career .66 ppg game.

There is zero improvement in 3 years that is a flat line.

lol, okay man. Have it your way. You win.

 

[Blender]

Year one .63 ppg
Year Two .68 ppg
Year 3 .69 ppg

Career .66 ppg game.

There is zero improvement in 3 years that is a flat line.

0.69 is higher than 0.63. Your own post supports that he has improved while you blindly contradict that fact.

 

[devilsblood]

I mean this is just a lie.

D+1 - 52 points in 82 games
D+2 - 47 points in 69 games (55 point pace over 82 games)
D+3 - 32 points in 46 games so far (57 point pace over 82 games). If you project his current pace since the Hall trade, he's on track to hit 58 points in 77 games (61 point pace over 82 games)

He's absolutely improved, but the thing he is still lacking is top quality power play production. His even strength production has been and continues to be among the best.

Actually his 5v5 #'s were better in his rookie year, but of course that was playing alongside Hall who was having a monster offensive year.

Nico's 5v5 #'s dipped last year, but have increased this year.

 

[devilsblood]

70 points guaranteed is a lot different than topping out at 70 one year. Nico is miles away from being a 70 point player. And 70 points is going to be low tier 1st line production their is nothing dominant or elite about the variables we are talking about.

Another goal post shift.

I see someone already picked up on the "miles away" bit, so I'll leave that be.

 

[devilsblood]

Nico's PP/60 production

17/18 2.14
18/19 3.29
19/20 4.24

So he has shown significant improvement in that regard.

I think the relative straight line overall point production is very much tied to his playing with Hall as a rookie.

Once you consider that I think it's pretty clear there has been strong improvement year over year.