GDT: Devils vs. Penguins - 7:00 PM MSG+

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Like I said, we have different definitions of "capable backup" if you think that OVERALL, Kinkaid has been one this year.

and I have no idea what bringing other goalies who are having subpar years into this does?

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

You *do* look at stats, right? If you go one by one, (and you're not Bleed, who thinks every goal is terrible) there really aren't that many bad goals given up. The vast majority of them early on were all passes across the Royal Road. At some point, a goaltender needs to rely on his defenders to cut those passes, and we just saw the other night how terrible Vatanan can be at it, and how terrible Lovejoy is in general.

We've seen Bobrovsky and Vasilevsky both give up worse goals just in the past week or so.

Without the SV% narrative, and a couple of goals through the wickits (some of which happened to be on breakaways in the first minute of games like at Philly) - this guy has been good for us.

sorry, I cannot fathom someone saying that a goalie letting in 3 goals/game and a bad SV% has been "good for us"

There is nothing more to debate. You are never going to change your opinion so its pointless to debate.

 

[haak84]

Like I said, we have different definitions of "capable backup" if you think that OVERALL, Kinkaid has been one this year.

and I have no idea what bringing other goalies who are having subpar years into this does?

its not just another goalie its the other goalie on the same team. if you want to look at the small 25 game sample size and say he is incapable than you are being shortsighted. over the past 2 years he has been more than capable. for the last 6 games hes been excellent overall. for a 20 game stretch he was not playing up to his level.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

its not just another goalie its the other goalie on the same team. if you want to look at the small 25 game sample size and say he is incapable than you are being shortsighted. over the past 2 years he has been more than capable. for the last 6 games hes been excellent overall. for a 20 game stretch he was not playing up to his level.

WHY are we continually bringing up the "last 2 years" when I have continually said that Schneider wasn't good overall last year? I mean I know why, because it makes Kinkaid's numbers look much better, but still.

We have different definitions of capable. Kinkaid is probably in the 45-50 range of goalies overall in the NHL, and that to me isn't good enough. If you think that that is, thats fine, we disagree.

 

[billingtons ghost]

sorry, I cannot fathom someone saying that a goalie letting in 3 goals/game and a bad SV% has been "good for us"

There is nothing more to debate. You are never going to change your opinion so its pointless to debate.

Grant Fuhr

1987-88	25	EDM	NHL	75		40	24	9	246	2066	1820	.881	3.43	4	4304				99	2.26	11.3	0	8	8	16	AS-1,Hart-2,Vezina-1

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

My assertion is that we have played defense like the 87 Oilers through two months.

 

[haak84]

WHY are we continually bringing up the "last 2 years" when I have continually said that Schneider wasn't good overall last year? I mean I know why, because it makes Kinkaid's numbers look much better, but still.

We have different definitions of capable. Kinkaid is probably in the 45-50 range of goalies overall in the NHL, and that to me isn't good enough. If you think that that is, thats fine, we disagree.

because you are basing your opinion on a small sample size!

 

[Edmonton East]

Man, it's kind of shocking how much better both Kinkaid and Cory have done on 3+ days rest this year.

High-level snap conclusion: Young, fast, hard skating team needs more time to recover....makes sense. Playoffs will be interesting...if they make it.

Keith Kinkaid
Cory Schneider

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Grant Fuhr

1987-88	25	EDM	NHL	75		40	24	9	246	2066	1820	.881	3.43	4	4304				99	2.26	11.3	0	8	8	16	AS-1,Hart-2,Vezina-1

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

My assertion is that we have played defense like the 87 Oilers through two months.

we're bringing up goalies from THIRTY YEARS AGO NOW?!

oh man, now its DEFINITELY time to end this debate, whew

 

[haak84]

kinkaid post all-star has been a capable STARTING goaltender but keep up the narrative that hes not a capable backup

he's 8-4 with a 2.68 GAA and .913 save %

he's 7-2 against our playoff competition. He has stepped up big time. which is all you can ask from your backup.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

Grant Fuhr

1987-88	25	EDM	NHL	75		40	24	9	246	2066	1820	.881	3.43	4	4304				99	2.26	11.3	0	8	8	16	AS-1,Hart-2,Vezina-1

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

My assertion is that we have played defense like the 87 Oilers through two months.

Grant Fuhr?

Pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff.... LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL !!!!!!!!!!!

Someone tell me how to slide a gif in a post... the Charly Murphy gif cracking up when asked to play ball by Prince is the perfect response!!!

 

[HenriquesJawLine]

Raw save % doesn't mean much to me. Kinkaid is like Bartolo Colon with the Mets, when he's bad he's realllllly bad and that hurts the ERA/sv%. Like in that Columbus game it wouldn't have mattered if he gave up 3 instead of 6. I think for backups you need to dig deeper than raw stats and look at the games individually. The more recent Columbus game he deserved criticism though for that game winning 2nd goal.

 

[Bleedred]

We can say the defense has been bad, but it also wasn’t that great against Carolina the last time we played them, nor against the Islanders or last night. Kinkaid just personally played much better.

And since he’s been passing the eye test, he hasn’t allowed more than two goals in a game. The difference between Kinkaid of the last stretch of games and Kinkaid letting in 3+ goals per game in the stretch before that is that he was usually letting in that one (sometimes two) pretty stoppable goal. He hasn’t been doing that lately, which is both corroborated by the eye test and the paper (save percentage) stats.

 

[billingtons ghost]

we're bringing up goalies from THIRTY YEARS AGO NOW?!

oh man, now its DEFINITELY time to end this debate, whew

Oh wow, did the definition of SV% and GAA change in 30 years? Your stats, upon which you base your *entire* argument somehow mean something different?

Look at Roy's from the next year:

1989-90	24	MTL	NHL	54		31	16	5	134	1524	1390	.912	2.53	3	3173				74	47.15	11.9	0	5	5	0	AS-1,Hart-5,Vezina-1

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Clearly your indictment of goalies based on stats alone is a terrible misrepresentation of actual goalie play - and both GAA and SV% are just as much a TEAM stat as Wins.

You can't look down your nose at Wins and simultaneously attempt to explain your position by using two other flawed stats as well.

 

[The Devil In I]

Came in to see people talking about what a big win in the playoff picture (puts us close to 90% likely to make the playoffs), found people instead found a reason to argue. Classic HF.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

yeah, the NHL is TOTALLY the same now as it was 30 years ago

great argument, my dude.

YESSSSSH.

 

[haak84]

Raw save % doesn't mean much to me. Kinkaid is like Bartolo Colon with the Mets, when he's bad he's realllllly bad and that hurts the ERA/sv%. Like in that Columbus game it wouldn't have mattered if he gave up 3 instead of 6. I think for backups you need to dig deeper than raw stats and look at the games individually. The more recent Columbus game he deserved criticism though for that game winning 2nd goal.

yes he deserved criticism but not at the rate this board piled on. and has pretty much castrated him since his stretch of poor play.

fact is, if lack or appleby were in net we might be fighting for our playoff lives. Kinkaid has posted above .900+ save % every month but december when he allowed 10 goals in 2 games (we were miserable against arizona too).

kinkaid has gone on to win 14 out of 18 possible points against our playoff competition. he has been a big part in most of those wins. the board just cant handle praise for kinkaid like they can hate for him.

 

[billingtons ghost]

We can say the defense has been bad, but it also wasn’t that great against Carolina the last time we played them, nor against the Islanders or last night. Kinkaid just personally played much better.

And since he’s been passing the eye test, he hasn’t allowed more than two goals in a game. The difference between Kinkaid of the last stretch of games and Kinkaid letting in 3+ goals per game in the stretch before that is that he was usually letting in that one (sometimes two) pretty stoppable goal. He hasn’t been doing that lately, which is both corroborated by the eye test and the paper (save percentage) stats.

I won't say he was 'good' for January, but he wasn't nearly as bad as this board had him.

 

[billingtons ghost]

yeah, the NHL is TOTALLY the same now as it was 30 years ago

great argument, my dude.

YESSSSSH.

Explain how SV% is different, maestro?

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

kinkaid has gone on to win 14 out of 18 possible points against our playoff competition. he has been a big part in most of those wins. the board just cant handle praise for kinkaid like they can hate for him.

people, including myself, have posted numerous times that he has been good lately. What more do you want?

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Explain how SV% is different, maestro?

I have nothing more to say to you if you are truly going to debate SV% from the late 80s vs 2018.

You aren't that dumb.

 

[Bleedred]

Grant Fuhr’s .881 save percentage in 87-88 was actually right above league average and not terrible. League average save percentage for the 87-88 season was .880 (thanks hockey reference) and the average team allowed 297 goals against in the 80 game regular season, so I’m assuming the average goalie GAA was probably somewhere around 3.50-3.60. 297 in 80 is about 3.71 goals against, but that also includes empty netters, which aren’t scored on goalies, thus not counting against their GAA.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

I have nothing more to say to you if you are truly going to debate SV% from the late 80s vs 2018.

You aren't that dumb.

When you pull out the Grant Fuhr card... you should automatically get a infraction!

 

[haak84]

people, including myself, have posted numerous times that he has been good lately. What more do you want?

to recognize that he is a capable back up goalie and has played like one this year but thats not happening. dude has been directly involved in us capturing 14 out of 18 possible playoff points at the most pivotal time of year. his poor play in the beginning of the season was not enough to remove us from a playoff position. his excellent post-all star play has ALLOWED us to be in a playoff spot.

this board was absolutely awful during his poor stretch. just let the kinkaid supporters have their moment. lord knows we had to endure a lot of excessive hate.

 

[billingtons ghost]

I have nothing more to say to you if you are truly going to debate SV% from the late 80s vs 2018.

You aren't that dumb.

I understand that you simply can't, and this is the way out- got it. You are saying SV% is just as bogus as I say it is.

Your argument makes Ryan Miller, Annti Raanta and Carter Hutton top 10 goaltenders this year in SV% and Holtby, Halak, Lundqvist, Varlamov , Schneider and Price are at the bottom of GAA.

C'mon man - when are you guys going to wake up to the reality that you're bringing a pop-gun to a knife fight if SV% and GAA are all you have.

I'm not arguing that list A up there haven't done their jobs as backups and that list B up there have been perfect, but don't you see a trend where it MIGHT have to do with the team's performance in front of them?

And that a 30 game sample set MIGHT be too small to use SV% for anything?

 

[haak84]

i cant believe the argument is over whether or not he is a capable backup after his post all star play. this board should be salivating over what he has meant to the team as of late.