Devils Team Discussion (current team/player news and notes) ‎2014-2015 Part XVIII

[NJDevs26]

It boggles my mind how much people complain about bottom six forwards around here. As if Zubrus or Ruutu or Gionta are what are holding this team back.

A) The best Devil teams do tend to have strong fourth lines
B) They're the most disposable players
C) Fourth liners become a problem when they get played above the fourth line, that's generally what brings on the complaining

 

[Missionhockey]

But how does that collectively hold us back? Their existence on this team doesn't stop us from having higher quality forwards for the top 6.

They are bottom 6 guys not playing well.

They have zero to do with us not having enough top guys or going to get those forwards in the offseason.

This isn't Earth shattering stuff but as a whole, the Devils forward group is old, slow, and lacking in skill. Pretty much everyone falls in that category except Henrique and Cammalleri. And while it's true, their existence doesn't prevent higher quality forwards from playing, it's still the reality of the situation because unfortunately, the Devils don't have anyone better. I've been saying (just like almost everyone else) that the entire top 9 needs a makeover.

 

[Emperoreddy]

This isn't Earth shattering stuff but as a whole, the Devils forward group is old, slow, and lacking in skill. Pretty much everyone falls in that category except Henrique and Cammalleri. And while it's true, their existence doesn't prevent higher quality forwards from playing, it's still the reality of the situation because unfortunately, the Devils don't have anyone better. I've been saying (just like almost everyone else) that the entire top 9 needs a makeover.

But how are they the problem. If they can be replaced they will be and they will be relegated to bottom 4 and scratches.

I don't believe anyone currently in the organization believe they are the answer.

I feel like everyone is afraid a new coach is just going to do the same **** Pete did.

 

[Bleedred]

I was after the scouting staff for a while, but they've softened the blow with a few good draft picks recently. Mostly defensemen.

Still mad at that Tedenby pick that year, we got Henrique so that may as well have been our first round pick that year.

 

[Hockey Sports Fan]

Bernier is now 3rd on the team in goal scoring.

Christ....

Speaking of super sad stats, Fraser already has more assists than Harrold on the season. Harrold has 1 assist.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

this is the same Lou that offered a ridiculous contract to a guy with mush for brains and also called Ruutu a scoring forward when we acquired him last year

don't put anything past this guy

 

[JimEIV]

I was after the scouting staff for a while, but they've softened the blow with a few good draft picks recently. Mostly defensemen.

Still mad at that Tedenby pick that year, we got Henrique so that may as well have been our first round pick that year.

They have been doing really well lately. If you produce a quality NHL player every year or every other year you are doing a pretty good job...It is pretty interesting that the entire 2011 draft class is all still very much a possibility to have NHL careers.


2011 Entry 4 1 Adam Larsson D Skelleftea AIK [SEL] 182 6 42 48 70
2011 Entry 75 3 Blake Coleman F Indiana Ice [USHL]
2011 Entry 99 4 Reid Boucher L U.S. National Development Team [USHL] 27 2 5 7 4
2011 Entry 129 5 Blake Pietila F U.S. National Development Team [USHL]
2011 Entry 159 6 Reece Scarlett D Swift Current Broncos [WHL]



It's a little to soon to judge 2012 onward in my opinion but Severson comes out of 2012 and that is fantastic...Had we been able to keep our players, Our drafting has been good enough to keep this competitive..plus add Greene, Oduya and Clarkson as diamond in the rough finds...In a 5 year span we added Parise, Zajac, Clarkson and Henrique, we should be reaping those rewards today




2012 Entry 60 2 Damon Severson D Kelowna Rockets [WHL] 41 4 11 15 18

The ENTIRE 2011 Class

2010 Entry 38 2 Jon Merrill D U.S. National Development Team [USHL] 110 4 20 24 32

2009 Entry 20 1 Jacob Josefson C Djurgardens IF Stockholm [SEL] 170 12 23 35 34
2009 Entry 54 2 Eric Gelinas D Lewiston MAINEiacs [QMJHL] 113 13 32 45 56
2009 Entry 114 4 Seth Helgeson D Sioux City Musketeers [USHL] 21 0 2 2 16

2008 Entry 82 3 Adam Henrique C Windsor Spitfires [OHL] 259 68 82 150 59

2007 Entry NOTHING YEAR

2006 Entry NOTHING YEAR - *Added Andy Greene, Johnny Oduya and David Clarkson

2005 Entry 155 5 Mark Fayne D Noble and Greenough H.S. (Mass.) 314 15 41 56 111

2004 Entry 20 1 Travis Zajac C Salmon Arm Silverbacks [BCHL] 615 126 219 345 205

2003 Entry 17 1 Zach Parise L U. of North Dakota [WCHA] 682 269 291 560 264

 

[Missionhockey]

But how are they the problem. If they can be replaced they will be and they will be relegated to bottom 4 and scratches.

I don't believe anyone currently in the organization believe they are the answer.

I feel like everyone is afraid a new coach is just going to do the same **** Pete did.

They are the problem because we have nobody better so they're forced to play more minutes than they should be.

 

[Feed Me A Stray Cat]

A) The best Devil teams do tend to have strong fourth lines
B) They're the most disposable players
C) Fourth liners become a problem when they get played above the fourth line, that's generally what brings on the complaining

Yeah, but generally speaking, fourth liners have a very, very small effect on overall team quality. If your top six is rubbish, and your goaltending is poor, you won't be any good no matter how good the fourth liners are.

Most fourth liners in the NHL are exactly like one another. Gionta is no better than most other fourth liners and probably no worse. They come and go, and can be replaced pretty easily from the minors. They go on really hot stretches and then suck for the next season.

Don't fixate too much on them.

 

[JimEIV]

Yeah, but generally speaking, fourth liners have a very, very small effect on overall team quality. If your top six is rubbish, and your goaltending is poor, you won't be any good no matter how good the fourth liners are.

Most fourth liners in the NHL are exactly like one another. Gionta is no better than most other fourth liners and probably no worse. They come and go, and can be replaced pretty easily from the minors. They go on really hot stretches and then suck for the next season.

Don't fixate too much on them.

This is an effect of the Salary cap...Pre Cap your bottom 6 was much more important. I mean Holik, McKAy and Peluso and Madden, Pandolfo and B. Gionta were often used against teams top pairings. It wasn't unusual for Holik or Madden to be right up at the top in TOI at the end of the game...You could afford to pay special players to play in your bottom 6 then....I don't believe that is an option anymore.

 

[MartyOwns]

What specifically has been wrong with Gionta and further, what is wrong with his speed?

yeah the problem still isn't gionta. he's still the perfect 4th liner, sans faceoff skills

Focusing on the bottom six without first fixing the top six is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic, especially because the biggest reason this team is losing is an inadequate top six. We'd be in a much better situation than we are now if Gionta, rather than our top six, was our biggest problem.

agreed...and more importantly, lou agrees with you as well given his recent comments.

Marner would be a keystone to this organization

he's the one i wanted at the lowest depths of this season...now that we're probably picking outside the top 5, i dont know who i want. either boeser (never seen him play, just going off of stats) or crouse.

I just figure if we are stuck with his massive contract, we might as well try all steps necessary to get him to produce offensively. The guy just hasn't been very good since Parise left....

agreed 100%, but in all fairness the team hasn't been the same since ZP (and kovy) left. looking back, that zajac contract was/is just awful. had to be done to lock him up, but man are we forked now. would love to deal him, but we'd have to retain salary. forget about the 'opening holes to plug others' stigma. zajac fills the need of a 3rd line center at this point, and not much else.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=758763&navid=nhl:topheads

A nice article on Kelowna and how they've been pumping out NHL defensemen, including Severson. Here's a little blurb regarding Sevs.

thats really awesome to hear. i still say merrill will be the best of the crop when all is said and done, but damn it all do i love me some competition.

 

[Wingman77]

Just to add a small tidbit to that +/- discussion from the other day - I have Yandle on my fantasy team so I'm well aware of his +/- as it is a stat in the league and prior to coming to the Rangers, he was a -32. He's been a +6 since.

 

[Bologna 1]

Stafford is ryder 2.0, just a little better on the walls and not quite as good a shot.

 

[Missionhockey]

Stafford is ryder 2.0, just a little better on the walls and not quite as good a shot.

That seems like a huge oversimplification. I doubt there is much that Ryder and Stafford have in common. For starters, Stafford is a former first round pick, younger, better skater, bigger and supposedly more physical.

 

[Billdo]

Stafford just screams Devils FA signing.

 

[Rhodes 81]

yeah the problem still isn't gionta. he's still the perfect 4th liner, sans faceoff skills

the entire forward group is made out of perfect 4th liners. that's the problem. Add a top line in replace of any random three forwards in this group and we'd have a really solid team, but unfortunately it isn't that easy.

 

[Billdo]

the entire forward group is made out of perfect 4th liners. that's the problem. Add a top line in replace of any random three forwards in this group and we'd have a really solid team, but unfortunately it isn't that easy.

Aside from Cammalleri I'm not sure any of our forward would be guaranteed top 6 on any other team.

 

[New Jack City]

Saw Rico, Gelly, Larsson and Fraser at a bar Saturday Night in Hoboken. Nice dudes

 

[OmNomNom]

Saw Rico, Gelly, Larsson and Fraser at a bar Saturday Night in Hoboken. Nice dudes

they say anything? what'd you hear about em?

 

[Cowbell232]

And if people keep talking about it, they won't ever go anywhere twice.

Don't ruin it guys, don't make their lives difficult...

 

[Devils Dominion]

Hard to take things serious when Harrold is in at RW as a choice and not due to a player shortage.

 

[New Jack City]

they say anything? what'd you hear about em?

I chatted it up with them for a while. They seemed to enjoy talking with a season ticket holder and true fan, grabbed a picture then just let them enjoy their night

 

[GhostofKenKlee]

I won't say where I met them, but Harrold/Gionta couldn't of been classier and better to my family. Only cooler Devils I met in the past where Brookbank and Oduya and I've met alot of them over the last 20 years.

All time best is Dano...

 

[GhostofKenKlee]

I chatted it up with them for a while. They seemed to enjoy talking with a season ticket holder and true fan, grabbed a picture then just let them enjoy their night

That's cool...

 

[Brodeur]

NHL.com article about how Kelowna became a factory of defensemen: http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=758763&navid=DL|NHL|home

Starts with Scott Hannan and eventually gets to Damon Severson.