GDT: Devils @ Rangers - Preseason, 9/18/19, 7pm

[devilsblood]

i think they said it on TV, he would have to go back to JR, he cant going BINGO. Again, some time is needed, if not years (for some defenseman) . I think he will work out. But IF NOT, does he have any other options other then WHL? I do not understand why the devils cant sign him, and send him to BINGO on a 2 way

It's an agreement between the NHL and the CHL, guys in their +2 can't go back to Juniors(unless their b-days are prior to Jan 1st).

Which does benefit the NHL as it keeps the CHL as a a more competitive developmental league, but in specific cases like this, it makes for a difficult decision.

 

[AgentBrodeur]

thank you for making my point for me.

the game is changing. You don't need to be a hulking defensive minded DMan to be a very good NHL player. Severson's strength is the transition game which is big in today's NHL.

this is a hard topic.

We have Andy Greene right now as the defensive defensman. Anton Stralman, and others alike , who provide no offense, but somehow keep the best +- on the defensive core, with not many points, but heavy minutes, are "gold" to have. The TWD and OFD balance out the rest.

 

[NJDevs26]

Even into the early 2000s. It wasn't until 2002-2003 that he was really seen as an elite defender, then he was here for one more year and then he was gone.

Although to be fair I think he did hit another level under Burns and after he became the #1 in 2004

 

[AgentBrodeur]

Love Severson knocking Kakko down behind the net. Didn't notice that elite cycling ability from him tonight

this is why hughes probably didnt play. We want to see him play, but people will start to put targets. The bigger they are, i think more easily they can get hurt, hehe, but i want simmons on the ice if hughes is against any team right now (and all injury prone players that we have) . I would keep shifting out players wisely as possible, and do not take dangerous plays until its Regular season.

 

[Blackjack]

this is why hughes probably didnt play. We want to see him play, but people will start to put targets. The bigger they are, i think more easily they can get hurt, hehe, but i want simmons on the ice if hughes is against any team right now (and all injury prone players that we have) . I would keep shifting out players wisely as possible, and do not take dangerous plays until its Regular season.

Also it would have been really hostile and there's just no need for that when he hasn't played any reg. season games yet. He can handle the boos and jeering once he's had a dozen games or so to establish himself. I don't believe Kakko is playing in our building either and I imagine it's the same reason.

 

[AgentBrodeur]

here is what I would do:

Hall-Hischier-Palmieri
Gusev-Hughes-Bratt
Coleman-Zajac-Simmonds
Wood-Zacha-Boqvist
Hayden

Vatanen-Subban
Butcher-Severson
Greene-T. Smith
Carrick Mueller

thats a hell of a balanced lineup. I know Simmonds and Bratt will likely be switched but still

here is mine

Hall - Hischier - Palmieri
Gusev - Hughes - Simmonds/Bratt . <--Simmonds only for some protection, obviously bratt should be here offensively
Boqvist - Zajac - Coleman/Bratt
Zacha - Hayden/Coleman - Maltsev/Wood



Vatanen - Subban
Butcher - Severson
Smith - Greene (smith needs to learn from a Vet, can green play off position?)

McLeod
Carrick
Mueller

Cory
Blackwood


Thats 24!

So Maltsev might have to work himself in first, or you start Mueller,Wood, Hayden in BINGO and say we just want to see how these kids play 10 games (conditioning stint) if contractually able

 

[Blackjack]

Although to be fair I think he did hit another level under Burns and after he became the #1 in 2004

Another thing people don't remember is that Stevens took plenty of criticism too. We look back at the defense we iced in the late mid-late 90s and up to 2003 and because of the results they got, it's easy to forget these things.

Damon Severson is a great transition defenseman, great skater, has some size, and he plays with a nasty edge that doesn't always get noticed. (Although it was nice to see people talking about him dumping Kakko.) If he was to play for a championship team, he would be remembered much the way we remember Niedermayer and Rafalski today.

 

[AgentBrodeur]

It's an agreement between the NHL and the CHL, guys in their +2 can't go back to Juniors(unless their b-days are prior to Jan 1st).

Which does benefit the NHL as it keeps the CHL as a a more competitive developmental league, but in specific cases like this, it makes for a difficult decision.

why do you say CHL, do they own the WHL?

 

[Blackjack]

why do you say CHL, do they own the WHL?

The OHL, WHL, and QMJHL collectively form the CHL. It's an incredibly stupid rule that hurts guys like Smith that probably need a little bit of minor league finishing, but have nothing to gain from playing any more in Juniors.

 

[AgentBrodeur]

this belongs on the main board.

the game kakko was in was less then the exhibition against the canadians (price was playing). That was a C team he was against

 

[NJDevs26]

Another thing people don't remember is that Stevens took plenty of criticism too. We look back at the defense we iced in the late mid-late 90s and up to 2003 and because of the results they got, it's easy to forget these things.

Damon Severson is a great transition defenseman, great skater, has some size, and he plays with a nasty edge that doesn't always get noticed. (Although it was nice to see people talking about him dumping Kakko.) If he was to play for a championship team, he would be remembered much the way we remember Niedermayer and Rafalski today.

Stevens definitely took criticism as the C from ‘96-99 but that was partly cause Lemaire himself attributed missing the playoffs to a ‘lack of leadership’. Then you had the early exits against inferior teams. He only achieved full sainthood with the fan base after 2000.

 

[Tretyak 20]

why do you say CHL, do they own the WHL?

CHL is the governing body for the Canadian Major Junior leagues: WHL, OHL, QMJHL.

 

[Blackjack]

Stevens definitely took criticism as the C from ‘96-99 but that was partly cause Lemaire himself attributed missing the playoffs to a ‘lack of leadership’. He only achieved full sainthood with the fan base after 2000.

I could be remembering this wrong, but I swear he was getting criticism for his defense and speed in the 2000s. People would say that his offense was gone, the game was getting too fast for him, and all he could do was hit people. Only when he retired was 2000s Stevens rehabilitated.

 

[devilsblood]

There wasn’t an HF but on the old AOL message boards people crapped on Nieds all the time for never living up to his potential, at least in the late ‘90’s.

Well his potential was seen as a more offensive defensemen, and our style reigned him in in that regard, though it did make him a more well rounded player. He bristled against the restraints too, and while playing with his brother made for a convenient story, I think his desire to play a more wide open game was the driving force in him leaving.

 

[Blackjack]

Well his potential was seen as a more offensive defensemen, and our style reigned him in in that regard, though it did make him a more well rounded player. He bristled against the restraints too, and while playing with his brother made for a convenient story, I think his desire to play a more wide open game was the driving force in him leaving.

I never bought that narrative. I think he simply didn't play to his potential until 2002-2003. He was still a good defenseman because his innate ability was generational, but I never believed he didn't score because of our system.

 

[devilsblood]

I never bought that narrative. I think he simply didn't play to his potential until 2002-2003. He was still a good defenseman because his innate ability was generational, but I never believed he didn't score because of our system.

18 seasons in the league, 5 with Anaheim, his 3 best offensive seasons were with the Ducks.

 

[NJDevs26]

With a bit of an asterisk cause that was also post lockout and rule changes. He could absolutely have put up big numbers on the Devils a couple of those years, particularly 05-06

 

[devilsblood]

With a bit of an asterisk cause that was also post lockout and rule changes. He could absolutely have put up big numbers on the Devils a couple of those years, particularly 05-06

Fair, but even if we put offensive #'s aside, the Devils were certainly not a wide open style that encouraged their d-men to push the puck up ice.

Nied's was on record about his desire to play a more aggressive style

 

[Billdo]

I never bought that narrative. I think he simply didn't play to his potential until 2002-2003. He was still a good defenseman because his innate ability was generational, but I never believed he didn't score because of our system.

He was absolutely stifled offensively, that's not necessarily a bad thing though.

 

[AgentBrodeur]

I was only able to Scoreboard watch and follow the game through hfboards last night. Can anyone explain a few things to me please...

1. The Rangers badly outshot us... did they hold the tempo of play and we got lucky with score or were they getting a lot of perimeter shots?

2. I really felt like everyone was crapping on Gusev last night until he scored and then the narrative changed to that he had a good game. What is the truth here? How was his overall game with Hischier?

3. Can anyone give a rundown on the guys and how they did?

Warning
You really cannot report on a pre-season game for so many reasons
line ups, changing goalies, although normally games are more low tempo for the A team players (if playing) some step back, some dont care and think its the playoffs. As for the rookies, those guys are playing for their livelyhoods , (see maltsev)


for those who dont know.....
1st period
-----------------
Nico came out bang(nice apple from butcher and vats, but FYI boqvist tied down the ranger D in front so that shot could get through fyi . Then played great defense minded two way game.

Rangers got allot of power plays, kakko hit the post which came out(in an odd direction still want to see close up) directly out front to zibanejad and cory robbed him. In the same play cory robbed krieder in front with a redirect. All with the stacking the pads on first, second save Cory somehow had it under his legs (half way in trapped) and kicked it out which was then , Trouba taking another shot and rang the post. So very high scoring chance power plays. 1 Goal missed by inches 3 times on all rags players mentioned.

Then at end of period, Maltsev used his arm to protect, but actually hit smith in the face and stopped playing defense trying to get a call? dude has a shield? Also smith's skate hit Maltsevs skate causing him to fall(not sure it was a trip)

Anyway didnt seem like smith complained, but i think it hurt him. leaving him all alone for a spectacular knee deke

2nd period . (backup of rangers came in after goose scored a goal on him, but it was just due to the 10 minute mark)
---------------------
Rangers get another power play, but the bread man would not be denied on a partial screen one timer (ovi style) top corner (nobody is going to stop that) and only true goal that Cory let up. Kakko got an secondary apple that was basically worthless, yet he celebrated it. whatever. ok for you.

The goose scored on a perfect pass, due to a sliding rags defensman (that was paired with trouba) Baddock outwaited the slide, and curled the pass around him. Goose , not only put it on on the far side he got it 50% up so great snapper as well.

Rangers score on a freak play. With a rookie Ty Smith that should make the team. This cannot be blamed on Cory, it was a dump in with two fore checkers with only ty smith to handle this. He should have slapped it, not try to play the puck. He will learn. I must say nobody was waiting on the boards for a pass from Ty on looking at a replay just now.


Third period . (all backup goalies now cory is out)
---------------------
Devils score, due to Hayden power move backhand to the net low (which i hate personally as a goalie) Seney cleans up the garbage and scores




Overall i can say the rangers had more quality shots, shots, possession time, (wish power play time was even so i could compare) but Rangers of course have a sexy power play since they had enough for a full PP 1, and full defensive A team played.
The devils cashed in when it counted. Ty Smith had a bad game with 3 turnovers, wood as well. Devils did not possess the puck enough, and allowed way too many shots, But this is only 1 game. See warning off summarizing a pre-season game.

For the rags, the 3rd string goalie looked outstanding. They might have something there. As well as Kratsov, I cant speak for any other rookie rags that stuck out to me. Fox looked bad.

 

[AgentBrodeur]

the game kakko was in was less then the exhibition against the canadians (price was playing). That was a C team he was against

will post

 

[Blackjack]

Fair, but even if we put offensive #'s aside, the Devils were certainly not a wide open style that encouraged their d-men to push the puck up ice.

Nied's was on record about his desire to play a more aggressive style

He was absolutely stifled offensively, that's not necessarily a bad thing though.

Sure, I'll concede that he probably would have gotten more points in a more open system, but I think the effect is exaggerated, 10-12 points per year.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Damon Severson is a great transition defenseman, great skater, has some size, and he plays with a nasty edge that doesn't always get noticed.

Replace the above with, "good", "good", "NHL average weight & height", and "soft", and you'd be correct.

Still doesn't negate all his glaring defensive deficiencies for my money.

I will concede towards the last 1/4 of the season last year Severson noticeably started taking the body more, which is a huge positive & encouraging, but he's still below average in this category for an NHL defenseman.

 

[devilsblood]

Sure, I'll concede that he probably would have gotten more points in a more open system, but I think the effect is exaggerated, 10-12 points per year.

Consider from the 99-00 season to the 03-04 season he put up sub 40 point totals in each of those years. Ya injuries played into that a little, but meanwhile in Detroit Lidstrom posted two 70+ point seasons a 60+ season and a 59 point season. Even though he had 2 cup's in NJ and a 3rd appearance during that time, I think he wanted some of that freedom Lidstrom was enjoying.

 

[Blackjack]

Consider from the 99-00 season to the 03-04 season he put up sub 40 point totals in each of those years. Ya injuries played into that a little, but meanwhile in Detroit Lidstrom posted two 70+ point seasons a 60+ season and a 59 point season. Even though he had 2 cup's in NJ and a 3rd appearance during that time, I think he wanted some of that freedom Lidstrom was enjoying.

Niedermayer was not in the universe as Lidstrom