Devils ownership discussion thread (mod note: post #17)

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Better Call Sal

Salnalysis
Nov 24, 2011
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Our team is by and large the same as last year's entering the season minus Moore. We'll fill out the rest of the squad with either a trade or PTOs and start the season with a similar group. This isn't a bad thing, there was no one worth overpaying that actually made it to market.
 

Zezel22

Registered User
Mar 9, 2018
753
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So I guess that's the next talking point for the 'OMG budget team!' crowd...now that they're clearly spending on one of their teams it's well they'll spend on them but not us.

Honestly who did anyone want to spend on this offseason other than O'Reilly and deHaan? JT and Carlson never gave us a shot. They had their reasons for not going all-in on deHaan, who basically would have been just another second-pairing defenseman and not a real needle-mover. They could have had O'Reilly, if you were willing to give up a 1, a 2, Bratt (or McLeod or Zacha), Noesen and Coleman, that's basically the equivalent of what the Blues gave up for him. I wouldn't argue if you wanted to make that deal but I don't think the only reason for not making the deal is money either. The Blues have more depth to sacrifice than we did.

Trying to make this discussion about the 10 days from July 1 to today is a good tactic for the folks trying to bat this down... but this has been a discussion among a group of people for several years now. You don't have to agree with it, obviously, but you can't just take snapshots and say well its not true because there are other reasons THIS thing didnt make sense. There were only a few things that made sense THIS July 1. The Bickell Terivinen trade was not a pure cap dump. so on and so forth.

You can point to each individual instance and say well, there were reasons besides just money that it didnt happen (like maybe this player didnt sign here, or maybe this team/player didnt want to be in the metro or whatever)... but at some point they will have to spend some money. At some point. or else this will become pretty indisputable.

Some of the most vociferous defenders of the organization on this were talking months ago about what a big offseason this was going to be for the team and Ray and are now saying with a straight face (presumably) thats its a win that they have done nothing and NEXT year is the year. Ok, we'll keep playing the game.
 

Goptor

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Jun 30, 2016
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So I guess that's the next talking point for the 'OMG budget team!' crowd...now that they're clearly spending on one of their teams it's well they'll spend on them but not us.

This is incorrect. The 76ers are 25/30 in salary again this coming year. They have been in the bottom 10 for the past 5 years.
 

My3Sons

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Trying to make this discussion about the 10 days from July 1 to today is a good tactic for the folks trying to bat this down... but this has been a discussion among a group of people for several years now. You don't have to agree with it, obviously, but you can't just take snapshots and say well its not true because there are other reasons THIS thing didnt make sense. There were only a few things that made sense THIS July 1. The Bickell Terivinen trade was not a pure cap dump. so on and so forth.

You can point to each individual instance and say well, there were reasons besides just money that it didnt happen (like maybe this player didnt sign here, or maybe this team/player didnt want to be in the metro or whatever)... but at some point they will have to spend some money. At some point. or else this will become pretty indisputable.

Some of the most vociferous defenders of the organization on this were talking months ago about what a big offseason this was going to be for the team and Ray and are now saying with a straight face (presumably) thats its a win that they have done nothing and NEXT year is the year. Ok, we'll keep playing the game.


I just don't think the "or else" moment is here yet. I don't anticipate UFA signings next year either. I do expect we will learn something with the Nico, Hall and perhaps MarJo extensions. I think MarJo will be the best indicator. I expect Hall to be offered a slightly below market deal so maybe 10.5 per and Nico to get something
based on this upcoming season. If he breaks 60 points I'd look for him to be asking for something close to what Marner eventually gets in TOR. MarJo is trickier. If he plays well and the team is not contending for a playoff spot and they dump him at the TDL for futures then that says something. If they package him with a then expendable piece or two for an upgrade somewhere else that will require a new contract that says something as well.

It's easy, if disheartening, to suggest the owners are not interested in the competitive status of the team, but in hockey, it just seems to take a fair amount of time to re-stock a bare cupboard. Look at PIT, EDM, BUF, TOR, each required multiple very high picks to pan out at a very high level, and even then, the results have been mixed. I'm not saying you are necessarily wrong, but I just haven't seen anything that "moves the needle" for the team yet in UFA. I would have liked them to sign CDH but who knows if they tried and he said no or demanded an extra year and additional annual money to play in NJ. It's not easy making this assessment when we are privy to very little of the actual information the team uses to make its decisions. Additionally, there are a number of Shero and Castron guys on the way up. I imagine that they would prefer to have their guys succeed rather than have older mercenaries that just fill a role for an overpayment. Sure the young guys are cheaper, but they are also their guys. Guys like Green and Lovejoy and even Boyle do more than demand a lineup spot because of their contract status, they block younger players who would likely start out worse than the vet but with a season might surpass the vet. Of course, Hynes plays a role in that as well. We'll see. I like to think that the ownership talk about Hall was not just blowing smoke.
 

NJDevs26

Once upon a time...
Mar 21, 2007
67,117
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I just don't think the "or else" moment is here yet. I don't anticipate UFA signings next year either.

That's the problem...we keep saying every offseason will provide an or else moment and then guys re-sign with their teams, destroying FA and the cap goes up again eliminating more chances of making a deal where only cap space is a factor. Even if you want to spend it's not always that easy when you're not the top destination on most FA lists and fewer teams need to make cap crunch trades every offseason.

Until they somehow become a cap team this is just gonna be the same old back and forth over and over again. There's never really going to be a smoking gun they won't spend unless they pass on no-brainer trades and FA signings (or the owners lose their shirt in the next recession, then it's obvious like with VBK), and there's never really gonna be proof they will spend till they find someone to shut up and take their money.

You can believe what you want, but as Bleed pointed out at some point earlier this offseason I don't think Shero comes here in the first place if this was going to be a strict small-market budget team. Especially with the shape the Devils were in at the time with the on-ice product. Granted when you're out of work you can't be too picky but still when you're a Cup-winning GM you don't take on one of the biggest overhaul jobs in hockey if you're going to have your hands tied budget-wise on top of it.
 
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My3Sons

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That's the problem...we keep saying every offseason will provide an or else moment and then guys re-sign with their teams, destroying FA and the cap goes up again eliminating more chances of making a deal where only cap space is a factor. Even if you want to spend it's not always that easy when you're not the top destination on most FA lists and fewer teams need to make cap crunch trades every offseason.

Until they somehow become a cap team this is just gonna be the same old back and forth over and over again. There's never really going to be a smoking gun they won't spend unless they pass on no-brainer trades and FA signings (or the owners lose their shirt in the next recession, then it's obvious like with VBK), and there's never really gonna be proof they will spend till they find someone to shut up and take their money.

You can believe what you want, but as Bleed pointed out at some point earlier this offseason I don't think Shero comes here in the first place if this was going to be a strict small-market budget team. Especially with the shape the Devils were in at the time with the on-ice product. Granted when you're out of work you can't be too picky but still when you're a Cup-winning GM you don't take on one of the biggest overhaul jobs in hockey if you're going to have your hands tied budget-wise on top of it.


The team is still trying to rebuild a prospect pool. Until that is finished and more Nicos and Bratts percolate up to the NHL level it's just a bunch of stop gap vets that will get paid. I'm all for paying Hall and anyone else that moves the needle like Nico, even all the RFAs like Coleman and Wood. Once NJ gets a couple of other high end young pieces then the franchise can be evaluated for spending. I think you and I are in agreement on this, just going about it from different perspectives. I agree with you that Shero is not a low rent budget GM and that it's unlikely he takes the job if his hands were tied on day 1.
 

Zajacs Bowl Cut

Lets Go Baby
Nov 6, 2005
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Trying to make this discussion about the 10 days from July 1 to today is a good tactic for the folks trying to bat this down... but this has been a discussion among a group of people for several years now. You don't have to agree with it, obviously, but you can't just take snapshots and say well its not true because there are other reasons THIS thing didnt make sense. There were only a few things that made sense THIS July 1. The Bickell Terivinen trade was not a pure cap dump. so on and so forth.

You can point to each individual instance and say well, there were reasons besides just money that it didnt happen (like maybe this player didnt sign here, or maybe this team/player didnt want to be in the metro or whatever)... but at some point they will have to spend some money. At some point. or else this will become pretty indisputable.

Some of the most vociferous defenders of the organization on this were talking months ago about what a big offseason this was going to be for the team and Ray and are now saying with a straight face (presumably) thats its a win that they have done nothing and NEXT year is the year. Ok, we'll keep playing the game.

I thought you just signed up recently?

hmm
 
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Zajacs Bowl Cut

Lets Go Baby
Nov 6, 2005
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This is incorrect. The 76ers are 25/30 in salary again this coming year. They have been in the bottom 10 for the past 5 years.

don't think thats accurate

remember they took on Wilson Chandler and JJ Redick. Thats another ~$25 million.
 

Billdo

Registered User
Oct 28, 2008
19,358
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They haven't missed out on anyone because they didn't offer a legit deal. The big names that would command big dollars either stayed with their team (Carlson) or had other motives as far as where they went (Tavares). If we don't extend Hall then maybe this holds more water but until then there's absolutely no reason to believe there is an internal cap.
 
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JrFischer54

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Apr 4, 2017
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Shero would absolutely take this job even knowing there was a cap in place he would be a fool not too. Zero absolute zero expectation small market. So even if he failed no one would blame him and if he succeeded he would have any job he wanted.

I’m in the group of being cautious on the owners intentions. Until given a reason to believe they are legit about winning I will keep being skeptical. They have had time and excuses on their side. 1 rebuilding patience. 2 no ufa our there to peruse. However time is quickly running out on them. In two years they can offer hall 15 million a year and he will still walk if this team isn’t substantially better I 100% would put money on him bouncing.

A great chance for them benefiting with their cap space any day now with the karlsson trade. Will the owners sign off on bringing Ryan for prospects and picks? 7 million worth it for that? We will see but time is def ticking for them
 

ScottyK

Hi, I'm mat.
Aug 28, 2008
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If this team has a restrictive internal cap..... someone in the media would of talked about it. I doubt Shero would be willing to run the show if he was handcuffed.
 
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Camille the Eel

Registered User
Why would we pay big money for a worn out Bobby Ryan?

Last time I looked, the 76ers were - despite the playoff series with Boston (a very close series with OT games and buzzer beaters being the difference) - one of the best young teams in the NBA. They are coming off an awesome, breakout season. What’s to blame the ownership with there at the moment? You are at least 2 or 3 years too late. For the first time in years, the city that loved Hal Greer, Billy Cunningham, Charles Barkley, etc., has raucous crowds for basketball and its sights on title competitiveness. Has what to genuinely cheer about.

Now we also turned our franchise around last year, both in objective performance, but even more in fan dedication and attendance and the atmosphere in the Rock by the end of the season. Huge for the franchise. The house was rocking and we’ve got a promising young team led by a Hart Trophy winner.

Now I like a good offseason cool air conditioner (or hot stove) discussion as much as the next person here, but there’s nothing to blame our owners about here at the moment.
 
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JrFischer54

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Apr 4, 2017
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I don’t know anything bout b ball but do the sixers have a soon to be free agent that really really wants to play on a winning team ? Or are they a bunch of young kids playing well and growing together?

Bobby Ryan would bring in assets that will help the team that’s why you bring him in. It’s basically paying 7 million dollars to get extra picks and prospects or young nhl players.
 

Blender

Registered User
Dec 2, 2009
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There are people who seriously, literally, and unironically think that every day this offseason, Shero drives to his office and sits in a chair saying DURRRRRRRRRRRRRRR for 9 hours and then drives home.
Wait, I thought he just didn't even bother going into the office since no one has seen him?
 

My3Sons

Nobody told me there'd be days like these...
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I don’t know anything bout b ball but do the sixers have a soon to be free agent that really really wants to play on a winning team ? Or are they a bunch of young kids playing well and growing together?

Bobby Ryan would bring in assets that will help the team that’s why you bring him in. It’s basically paying 7 million dollars to get extra picks and prospects or young nhl players.

If Bobby Ryan would bring in assets why haven’t OTT moved him for those assets?
 

MadDevil

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Lol, Shero has literally said there’s no internal cap

He's a liar.:sarcasm:

People need to stop equating not spending with not being able to spend. It's great that we finally got back to the playoffs, but this team is still being built, and teams get themselves into trouble trying to fast track their build after a surprisingly good season. Sometimes the hardest thing to do is to do nothing, even if it is ultimately the right decision. I have enough faith in the management of this team that they'll spend significant money when the time is right to do so.
 

Oneiro

Registered User
Mar 28, 2013
9,438
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This is what happens when people get the fiscal "discipline" they want. They still complain because actions observed are a lot easier to appreciate than actions not taken.

Chicago should still be wrecking this league, but they're not. If you're a GM with a shred of self-respect, you look at that scenario and, despite three cups, you can see how to improve on that process. Sticking to the plan, showing some restraint - the benefits of doing these things compound over time.
 

New Jersey

(pacmanghost x) sad again
Sep 7, 2009
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has it occurred to anyone that maybe shero has a plan with the owners to continue developing the franchise without veering towards a fiscal cliff where the potential gains of having high-priced stars aren't clearly justified by what they would cost up front? like, it seems like both a hockey AND financial decision.

why would we trade young assets or mortgage the future to spend like $16m annually between two high-priced signings? i would rather the organization spend within its means and continue to invest in developing young players and keeping prudential center a premier nhl venue, effectively growing and keeping strong the njd brand and basically guaranteeing they'll be in newark forever.

have we not been paying attention to what has become of zach parise?
 
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