LeBrun: Devils, Hall making traction on new contract?

[Nocashstyle]

Love Hall but I don’t consider him to be a “superstar “
He’s damn good but I don’t know how I feel about giving him 11 mil or more . His play style to me is something I worry will keep him out of playing as much as his team would like him to , and also think that his effectiveness will drop off sharply as he ages . When he loses his speed , I think his game will decline sharply . Not a combination I’d like the devils to throw huge money and term at .
I’d be fine with a shorter term deal for his prime years only but that’s not going to happen . I’m just worried his contract might make it hard to resign Nico / Hughes / and hopefully Gusev and Smith while trying to improve the defence . I’d rather have depth than be very top heavy on forwards

Agreed. He doesn’t have the IQ or hockey sense to make up for any potential lost speed down the road....but he should have another 4 or 5 years of game breaking elite ability. That later years of an 8 year contract may look ugly, but we’ll see.

 

[R8Devs]

overpaying any player isn't smart. a healthy salary structure within an organization is very important. if a GM doesn't overpay his top guys, he is in a much better position in the contract negotiations with the next tier players and so on. the contracts in toronto are a prime example of such a dribble down effect costs.

Toronto is in a better position than they would be if they didn’t keep the top level guys on their team. If some mid level player wants to be paid more because of Matthews then the leafs can walk away from that but they really can’t afford to not have Matthews on their team

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Agreed. He doesn’t have the IQ or hockey sense to make up for any potential lost speed down the road....but he should have another 4 or 5 years of game breaking elite ability. That later years of an 8 year contract may look ugly, but we’ll see.

If the injuries he's had are not of a chronic nature (and none of us know one way or the other) he doesn't have a ton of mileage for someone who's been in the NHL since he was 18. If he's as good as late career Patrick Marleau in the last year of his deal when the cap could be at above $100 million if this TV deal is what it's cracked up to be and the Seattle franchise is a big hit, I don't see an issue.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I'm not worried about years 6-8 of a potential longterm contract. In today's NHL, its relatively easy to "Get out" of a contract if you really need to.

Basically, if we want Hall for the next 3-4 years we need to give him a 7-8 year contract. There is no way around it.

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

Hall's comments from yesterday:

But that’s all it is at this point: potential. From Hall’s perspective, it was a productive meeting and a part of the process, but there are still steps for both sides to make before any type of deal gets close to done.
“I know they had a meeting and I think it went well," Hall said. “There’s some amount of interest on both sides, but there was no numbers discussed or term, dollars, anything like that. I wouldn’t say there’s anything close right now, just because that hasn’t really been discussed.”

What Devils’ Taylor Hall said about latest meeting between GM Ray Shero, agent Darren Ferris

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

Toronto is in a better position than they would be if they didn’t keep the top level guys on their team. If some mid level player wants to be paid more because of Matthews then the leafs can walk away from that but they really can’t afford to not have Matthews on their team

But Hall is not like the players Toronto signed long term. Matthews, Marner and Nylander are younger players going into their prime producing years. Barring injury there is not much chance those players will decline rapidly over the course of the contract. Tavares is in his Halls age group but does not have Hall's injury history.

 

[R8Devs]

But Hall is not like the players Toronto signed long term. Matthews, Marner and Nylander are younger players going into their prime producing years. Barring injury there is not much chance those players will decline rapidly over the course of the contract. Tavares is in his Halls age group but does not have Hall's injury history.

true, but this season was the only one that Hall had a major injury with the Devils and part of the reason he missed so much time is because they couldn't diagnose the injury. Anyway the Devils are better in the foreseeable future with Hall than without, therefore I think they should try to sign him. It might hurt at the end but that's a problem to deal with then not now. Problems with the cap can be avoided by not signing other UFA's to long term deals

 

[TFHockey]

Love Hall but I don’t consider him to be a “superstar “
He’s damn good but I don’t know how I feel about giving him 11 mil or more . His play style to me is something I worry will keep him out of playing as much as his team would like him to , and also think that his effectiveness will drop off sharply as he ages . When he loses his speed , I think his game will decline sharply . Not a combination I’d like the devils to throw huge money and term at .
I’d be fine with a shorter term deal for his prime years only but that’s not going to happen . I’m just worried his contract might make it hard to resign Nico / Hughes / and hopefully Gusev and Smith while trying to improve the defence . I’d rather have depth than be very top heavy on forwards

The guy won the Hart. What does it take to make superstar status for you?

I happen to agree with the other points you make, however. Hall's style of play tends to lead to injury and after a while that catches up with a guy.

 

[Nocashstyle]

But Hall is not like the players Toronto signed long term. Matthews, Marner and Nylander are younger players going into their prime producing years. Barring injury there is not much chance those players will decline rapidly over the course of the contract. Tavares is in his Halls age group but does not have Hall's injury history.

Tavares’ game will also likely age a little more gracefully than Hall’s due to the fact he was never an elite skater and his game isn’t built on explosive speed.

 

[ADD-devil950003]

I hate to disrupt a good rant, but Nash never actually signed a contract with anyone other than the Columbus Blue Jackets. He was traded to New York two years into that eight year extension, and in his final year of that extension was sent to Boston at the deadline, and subsequently retired.

Must have slipped my mind w Nash. Point still stands. Left Gaborik off bc he was very good for two seasons in NY but again, didn’t turn out well at all. Anyone acting like the rangers ever get great home team discounts hasn’t been paying attention. Even “The King” took a contract that has had him being massively overpaid for the at least the last three seasons. All the big name free agents love to play in New York, yes. However, they also love to milk the rags for all the money they can in the process.

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

If Hall was willing to do the Panarin contract or even the Panarin contract plus 1 million AAV I think this would be done.

 

[McShogun99]

You guys are making it sound like Hall is 30+. He’s going to be 27 when he signs his UFA contract. I doubt his game will fall off that much by the time he’s 34. Anytime you get a chance to sign an elite UFA that’s still in his mid to late 20’s is a gamble worth taking.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

Something something play the trap in New Jersey

Is that like something something dark side?

 

[Hisch13r]

You guys are making it sound like Hall is 30+. He’s going to be 27 when he signs his UFA contract. I doubt his game will fall off that much by the time he’s 34. Anytime you get a chance to sign an elite UFA that’s still in his mid to late 20’s is a gamble worth taking.

Not exactly true. He'll start next year at 28 and will turn 29 a month into the season. I do agree that you sign him because he should still be damn good for at least the first 5 or 6 years and it isn't super hard to get out of bad deals if he trails off

 

[Lindys Lazy Eye]

Choose one:

1. See? He's not going to leave the Devils. It's about time this got acknowledged.
2. Yeah, they said the same thing about Panarin this time last year. He's gone. Deal with it.
3. That's somewhat encouraging, but I'll believe it when I see it.
4. We could really use Hall on my team. What would it take?
5. The Devils will actually be good this year. Hughes is going to do quite a bit to help, and Hischier will be showing improvement, and PK Subban is going to make the blueline better, and nobody ever gives Palmieri any credit but he'll also be awesome and etc. etc.
6. The Devils will suck with or without him. Whatever.
7. Something something playing the trap in New Jersey.
8. He'll get paid too much anyways because Kyle Dubas ruined everything.
9. He's injury prone so I don't care.
10. lol adam larsson

EDIT:
BONUS CHOICE: Something about draft lotteries and first overall picks.

Hmm, option three or option five...

I prefer optimism over pessimism and indifference so five it is.

 

[Hisch13r]

Hmm, option three or option five...

I prefer optimism over pessimism and indifference so five it is.

I've been generally more pessimistic about the team for years now even during 17-18 because I saw nothing to be optimistic about. That's completely different this year. Optimism it is

 

[TBF1972]

But Hall is not like the players Toronto signed long term. Matthews, Marner and Nylander are younger players going into their prime producing years. Barring injury there is not much chance those players will decline rapidly over the course of the contract. Tavares is in his Halls age group but does not have Hall's injury history.

Neither Matthews, nor Marner, nor Nylander have to regress to be overpaid. Hall's Hart season beats all their peaks seasons so far:
If Matthews remains a PPG player, but only manages to appear in around 65 games a season because of injuries, he will be slightly overpaid.
If Marner can't repeat last year's performance and settles in as a 75 points winger, he will be slightly overpaid.
If Nylander doesn't improve upon last season, his contract will be a dumpster fire. If he returns to his 60 points production, he will be slightly 'overpaid' (actually only his cap hit will be a little high, as the overpayment in form of signing bonuses has already happened).
I agree, it is very unlikely, that all ifs will materialize. But those young stars of the TML have to progress and improve over the live time of their contracts to be worth the money.

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

Neither Matthews, nor Marner, nor Nylander have to regress to be overpaid. Hall's Hart season beats all their peaks seasons so far:
If Matthews remains a PPG player, but only manages to appear in around 65 games a season because of injuries, he will be slightly overpaid.
If Marner can't repeat last year's performance and settles in as a 75 points winger, he will be slightly overpaid.
If Nylander doesn't improve upon last season, his contract will be a dumpster fire. If he returns to his 60 points production, he will be slightly 'overpaid' (actually only his cap hit will be a little high, as the overpayment in form of signing bonuses has already happened).
I agree, it is very unlikely, that all ifs will materialize. But those young stars of the TML have to progress and improve over the live time of their contracts to be worth the money.

No kidding - those players have not hit their peak yet. Hall's MVP is well above his career norms. Hall was never an MVP candidate in any other year. You pay players for what they will do in the future.

 

[tony d]

The Devils have had a very good off season, if they can get Hall signed long term then I think you can say they won the off season.

 

[Classic Devil]

The Devils have had a very good off season, if they can get Hall signed long term then I think you can say they won the off season.

Depends on what the contract is. Too rich and we seriously undermine our franchise's future starting as soon as next offseason.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Depends on what the contract is. Too rich and we seriously undermine our franchise's future starting as soon as next offseason.

we aren't going to "undermine" anything with an "extra" $1-2 million if that happens

much rather overpay a star than overpay a bottom 6 player

 

[Jersey Fresh]

we aren't going to "undermine" anything with an "extra" $1-2 million if that happens

much rather overpay a star than overpay a bottom 6 player

Yeah, what exactly is the alternative there? Don't sign him because of that $2M and then...what exactly?

 

[SladeWilson23]

No kidding - those players have not hit their peak yet. Hall's MVP is well above his career norms. Hall was never an MVP candidate in any other year. You pay players for what they will do in the future.

Yea if we're gonna be realistic, Hall is more likely a 75-85 point player.

 

[SladeWilson23]

Yeah, what exactly is the alternative there? Don't sign him because of that $2M and then...what exactly?

As good as he is, the Devils future doesn't hinge on Taylor Hall. The Devils future would still be bright without him.

 

[HBK27]

As good as he is, the Devils future doesn't hinge on Taylor Hall. The Devils future would still be bright without him.

Definitely not as bright though. Losing a player that good leaves a hole in your lineup no matter how good the team is.

If they can trade him for a decent return, maybe it's not so bad. But having him walk for nothing is a tough pill to swallow.