Devils goalie dissection thread

[Bleedred]

The eye test is the only way to judge a goalies performance imo. Kk was slumping earlier and has since rebounded nicely . Cory has always been an avg goalie, but one could argue that over the last 2 seasons he's been slightly below average (not including this slump).
The one thing the stats don't have a way to measuer is the key save, the timely save if you will (besides wins/loss the only stat that would mean anything). You can have great stats on paper with the save % but still be a bad goalie if you can't come up with the big save at the right time, or in pressure situations. Imo a good goalie finds ways to make those saves the majority of the time....and for a while that has not been cs.
Kk has shown flashes in the past that he could make big saves, now since becoming the starter he's doing it more often leading to him winning more (offense helps, but he also helps himself out)

And the eye test usually aligns with save percentage, at least over a significant stretch. Not in single game sample sizes (like any other stat) or sometimes even small stretches.

Go and watch the highlights of the Panthers/Senators the other night and tell me that 4 of the 7 goals Sens goalies allowed weren’t stoppable. Go watch the Red Wings Flyers highlights and tell me that 2 of the 3 goals Mrazek allowed were not stoppable. Go and watch the highlights from the Oilers/Canes game on Tuesday and tell me 4 of the 7 goals that Darling allowed weren’t at least stoppable. Just go re-watch Cory against San Jose. 4 goals allowed on 14 shots, 3 of them were stoppable.

Eye test tells me they sucked those games, save percentage confirms it. All of these goalies have a mediocre to terrible save percentage this season. When Cory had his last good save percentage season in 15-16, the stoppable goals were way down from the last two years where the save percentage has been in the toilet.

 

[haak84]

can the NHL hire @Bleedred and implement the stoppable goals % stat?

 

[Bleedred]

can the NHL hire @Bleedred and implement the stoppable goals % stat.

I would love for them to hire a guy like Brian Boucher to do it.

I don’t like Valiquette, but I do think we would see eye to eye if we both did evaluations together on what were stoppable goals and what weren’t. I’ve seen Valiquette seem to have data on almost every advanced goaltending stat like you would never think of. Like a goalie’s save percentage on “Clear sighted shots” and how many dead angle goals were allowed. I remember him saying Bobrovsky allowed exactly zero goals from a dead angle the year he first won the Vezina. That was the shortened season and he only played 38 games, so maybe it would have been more in a real season.

 

[haak84]

I would love for them to hire a guy like Brian Boucher to do it.

I don’t like Valiquette, but I do think we would see eye to eye if we both did evaluations together on what were stoppable goals and what weren’t. I’ve seen Valiquette seem to have data on almost every advanced goaltending stat like you would never think of. Like a goalie’s save percentage on “Clear sighted shots” and how many dead angle goals were allowed. I remember him saying Bobrovsky allowed exactly zero goals from a dead angle the year he first won the Vezina. That was the shortened season and he only played 38 games, so maybe it would have been more in a real season.

I can safely say, you'd be an improvement over Valiquette. I still think its similar to an ill person going to a Tarot card reader for a diagnosis but I digress.

 

[Bleedred]

I can safely say, you'd be an improvement over Valiquette. I still think its similar to an ill person going to a Tarot card reader for a diagnosis but I digress.

LOL thanks.

I trust Him on goalie analysis though, just because he played goalie. I don’t care much for Kevin Weekes as a guy to give you goalie analysis. I feel like he’s way too homerish towards them and he always tries to convince me that the most mediocre goalies are not that bad.

 

[haak84]

LOL thanks.

I trust Him on goalie analysis though, just because he played goalie. I don’t care much for Kevin Weekes as a guy to give you goalie analysis. I feel like he’s way too homerish towards them and he always tries to convince me that the most mediocre goalies are not that bad.

Kevin Weekes is a color commentator more than an analyst. Valiquette is more like Dr. Oz to me than Joe Girardi in the booth.

 

[haak84]

Like if his insights were that palpable he'd be a coach of some sort. But he just feeds into the Ranger's echo chamber that Lundqvist is damn near perfect and his style of play aligns to that.

I really wish that the Rangers dumped AV and went with SV mid season. It would have been hilarious to watch. AV gets SOOOO much blame on that board its incredible.

 

[Bleedred]

Like if his insights were that palpable he'd be a coach of some sort. But he just feeds into the Ranger's echo chamber that Lundqvist is damn near perfect and his style of play aligns to that.

I really wish that the Rangers dumped AV and went with SV mid season. It would have been hilarious to watch. AV gets SOOOO much blame on that board its incredible.

He's definitely more homerish towards Lundqvist AND the Rangers.

Like he'll talk about these goalie stats, but he also likes to think Lundqvist is still really good, or at least portray him on Rangers TV to still be really good. No way he still believes it. He's good, but not great anymore. He also talks about other advanced stats, but sometimes finds silver linings in when the Rangers get outshot 80-22 or whatever.

I feel like members of the media are way too politically correct when it comes to coaches and goalies in the league. Rarely will they talk about a coach sucking. Some guy on the Sports Net Flames telecast last night was saying that Gulutzan needed to go and I was shocked that he was publicly blaming the coach so much. Then you got the analysts that tell me ''Jake Allen is a really good young goalie, the guy is solid'', but if Jake Allen is really that good, are there goalies that are not? Because I see nothing but mediocrity there. I realize these guys are professional and can't get on TV and say ''Dude, Jake Allen BLOWS!'', but I definitely notice a little more ''Professionalism'' when it comes to media guys talking about goalies and coaches.

 

[haak84]

He's definitely more homerish towards Lundqvist AND the Rangers.

Understatement of the year,

Like he'll talk about these goalie stats, but he also likes to think Lundqvist is still really good, or at least portray him on Rangers TV to still be really good. No way he still believes it. He's good, but not great anymore. He also talks about other advanced stats, but sometimes finds silver linings in when the Rangers get outshot 80-22 or whatever.

he's catering to his audience there and he probably is a member of his own audience. He really believes Lundqvist is still a top 5 goalie and will present any stats to show it. He just happens to have more credibility than most.

I feel like members of the media are way too politically correct when it comes to coaches and goalies in the league. Rarely will they talk about a coach sucking. Some guy on the Sports Net Flames telecast last night was saying that Gulutzan needed to go and I was shocked that he was publicly blaming the coach so much. Then you got the analysts that tell me ''Jake Allen is a really good young goalie, the guy is solid'', but if Jake Allen is really that good, are there goalies that are not? Because I see nothing but mediocrity there. I realize these guys are professional and can't get on TV and say ''Dude, Jake Allen BLOWS!'', but I definitely notice a little more ''Professionalism'' when it comes to media guys talking about goalies and coaches.

well, goaltending is a precarious position. every goalie sets out with the right intention and can only respond to outside opposing factors. calling goalies out after the fact is like telling a dog that they've made a mistake when it's painfully obvious that they have. they're intention is to always do the right thing but instincts and situational luck will get in the way of that.

 

[bobilly45]

Kk is our starter... team knows he will have their back and make the tough saves

 

[JimEIV]

I changed my mind... Keith a starter....Why the hell not?

 

[Emperoreddy]

Way I would do it is start Keith tomorrow assuming tonight’s score holds. Might still start him if it doesn’t.

Then Cory Tuesday against a Carolina team that has a very poor offense. If Cory can’t figure something out against them at home...well.

Either way gives Keith a quick breather so he is fresh for the much tougher Penguins and ready to go for the Isles.

Ideally Cory finally gets a win against Carolina and we can feel good about giving him the Montreal game (another awful team) and maybe we finally get two goalies going assuming we get results in most of those games.

 

[mtnet]

Whatever happens tonight, Kinkaid played a HUGE game

Gave the team a real chance to win

Kind of like Nashville where the team was similarly under siege

 

[Emperoreddy]

Still say play Keith tomorrow. Cory Tuesday.

I would not play Keith in both though. Especially with Pitt coming to town and another back to back looming. It is just too much.

 

[devilsblood]

Do they keep stats for the # of play stoppages by a goalie?

 

[devilsblood]

Still say play Keith tomorrow. Cory Tuesday.

I would not play Keith in both though. Especially with Pitt coming to town and another back to back looming. It is just too much.

If Kink plays and wins tomorrow I have no issue giving him the Canes game on Tuesday. That's a 2 day rest, and he just had 2 days off, really only played a half a game in the previous 4 days.

Then there is a day off after Tuesday too.

 

[Emperoreddy]

If Kink plays and wins tomorrow I have no issue giving him the Canes game on Tuesday. That's a 2 day rest, and he just had 2 days off, really only played a half a game in the previous 4 days.

Then there is a day off after Tuesday too.

And then a back to back which we might need him to play both.

Don’t think it is worth it.

 

[devilsblood]

And then a back to back which we might need him to play both.

Don’t think it is worth it.

Actually game Tuesday, Thursday and then Sat. I'll worry about next weekends back to back next weekend.

If Kink plays and wins tomorrow Tuesday is an easy call.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

We're playing our season as of now... let's play the hot goalie and try not to overthink anything.

 

[JimEIV]

Keith is 15-7-1 in 2018.

 

[135ace]

Still say play Keith tomorrow. Cory Tuesday.

I would not play Keith in both though. Especially with Pitt coming to town and another back to back looming. It is just too much.

Absolutely not. Cory should not play another game this season. All KK. If you want to rest him one game do it against the Canadiens, but call up one of the AHL goalies because Cory is a steaming pile of dog excrement right now and should not play under any circumstances.

 

[Billdo]

Absolutely not. Cory should not play another game this season. All KK. If you want to rest him one game do it against the Canadiens, but call up one of the AHL goalies because Cory is a steaming pile of dog excrement right now and should not play under any circumstances.

That’s not going to happen, you know that, don’t be silly.

 

[Bleedred]

I'd like to take it game by game.

I think I'd sooner give Cory the Carolina game if we won against Tampa, because the situation then becomes a little less dire. Especially if Arizona can take care of Florida for us tomorrow.

I feel tonight's 1st period was either as bad or worse than the 1st period against the Sharks, but the difference was Keith held it to 1-0 and allowed a goal he really didn't have a chance on, while Cory allowed two pretty stoppable goals and one he didn't have a chance on, which led to 3 goals against already by the end of the 1st period.

 

[haak84]

kinkaid is the starter. he decides whether he wants a day off or not. hes earned it.

 

[Emperoreddy]

The solution is to call Lack up and see if he can do it one more time against Tampa.