Prospect Info: Devils Centric 2019 Mock Draft 1.01g1

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StevenToddIves

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They also just didnt do a good job scouting in any of their top end draft years. pool party and nail were complete misses. They are also just a complete disaster of an organization.

That's the key, and you could not be more correct.

The problem with Edmonton was not that Nail Yakupov was a bust. The problem was that they only had one(!!!) pick after the first round make any discernible impact over an almost decade-long span (Jeff Petry). That is AWFUL scouting.

Why? Well, their front office is basically a boys-club of ex-Oilers stars who come to work in t-shirts and have no fear of losing their jobs. Kevin Lowe is a moron. Craig MacTavish is a moron. Dallas Eakins was (and still is) a moron. Their scouting staff was almost entirely comprised of ex-teammates (not trained scouts) who would prefer to draft a big, strong Canadian kid to an actually talented hockey player. They have proven painfully ill-equipped at a management or coaching level.

When a barrage of media criticism finally put their jobs at risk, they hired the most like-minded ex-GM available in Peter Chiarelli, a guy who traded Blake Wheeler for not using his size to drop the gloves, and then Phil Kessel and Tyler Seguin for not mucking enough in the corners. What happened was predictable, in that he traded Tyler Hall and then systematically flushed the Oilers future down the toilet. How he was allowed to sign a mediocre back-up goalie to a multi-year, $4.5 million contract mere days before his firing is a perfect example of just how sorry the Oilers front office truly is. Did Kevin Lowe green-light this awful deal because he was still fighting for Chiarelli's job? Or did he actually not consider firing Chiarelli until two days before he actually did? It's just putrid management.

Also, we cannot complete this diatribe without mentioning perhaps the worst trade in NHL history, the Griffin Reinhart deal. Although Mike Milbury made several bad deals, all the players he received in those trades were, at the time, considered very good NHL players. Chiarelli gave the Isles two early picks (who became Barzal and Beauvillier) for a player whom, if you asked 29 other NHL GMs at the time, had maybe an outside chance of becoming a third-pairing defensive D despite his extremely poor skating. Why did Chiarelli make the deal, then? Because Reinhart was big, Canadian, and won a Memorial Cup with the Edmonton Oil Kings. This trade literally changed the course of the Oilers future more than anything else.
 

Nubmer6

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That's the key, and you could not be more correct.

The problem with Edmonton was not that Nail Yakupov was a bust. The problem was that they only had one(!!!) pick after the first round make any discernible impact over an almost decade-long span (Jeff Petry). That is AWFUL scouting.
To be fair, as far as I remember, Yakupov was universally touted as being the 1 OA can't miss player. Were you doing rankings back then? If so, I'm curious if you had him as your top pick too.
 

StevenToddIves

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To be fair, as far as I remember, Yakupov was universally touted as being the 1 OA can't miss player. Were you doing rankings back then? If so, I'm curious if you had him as your top pick too.

I absolutely had Yakupov first.

Where I disagreed with scouting bureaus in 2012 was with defenseman. Ryan Murray was universally #2 and Griffin Reinhart universally in the top 5 -- I had Jacob Trouba #2 overall, I was all in on him. I did not see any way that Murray or Reinhart would be a better defenseman than Trouba.

Before you compliment me too much, I also thought that Hampus Lindholm in the top 10 was an awful pick by Anaheim.
 

Nubmer6

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I absolutely had Yakupov first.

Where I disagreed with scouting bureaus in 2012 was with defenseman. Ryan Murray was universally #2 and Griffin Reinhart universally in the top 5 -- I had Jacob Trouba #2 overall, I was all in on him. I did not see any way that Murray or Reinhart would be a better defenseman than Trouba.
Ya. You can't blame the Oilers front office TOO much for the Yakupov pick. It was bad luck. Some of the others, well...
 

StevenToddIves

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Ya. You can't blame the Oilers front office TOO much for the Yakupov pick. It was bad luck. Some of the others, well...

Also, the development of Yakupov was abominable. He was robbed of the Calder Trophy as a rookie, you might remember. And then he became the fall guy after a litany of bad coaches ran the team into the ground.
 

Nubmer6

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Also, the development of Yakupov was abominable. He was robbed of the Calder Trophy as a rookie, you might remember. And then he became the fall guy after a litany of bad coaches ran the team into the ground.
True, but he never recovered, even for other coaches on different teams. Perhaps he was already damaged goods by then mentally.
 

Figgie

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- I would love to get from draft one of Hughes, Kakko or Byram!! Podkolzin would be scary pick, I don't trust Russian when we are speaking from first round pick selection, maybe if we fall out of top5 and he is still available.

- trade Johansson for 1 round pick. Draft Spencer Knight with that pick if he is still available.

- Bring @StevenToddIves our next GM!!

(sorry my English are not perfect hope you all understand)
 

StevenToddIves

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- I would love to get from draft one of Hughes, Kakko or Byram!! Podkolzin would be scary pick, I don't trust Russian when we are speaking from first round pick selection, maybe if we fall out of top5 and he is still available.

- trade Johansson for 1 round pick. Draft Spencer Knight with that pick if he is still available.

- Bring @StevenToddIves our next GM!!

(sorry my English are not perfect hope you all understand)

Ha, thanks, but I must say that Ray Shero is doing a terrific job in my mind. If he wants to bring me on as an advisor, I'd be glad to switch careers.

That being said, I would have been far superior to Chiarelli in Edmonton or Dorion in Ottawa or Fenton in Minnesota.
 

Ripshot 43

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Ha, thanks, but I must say that Ray Shero is doing a terrific job in my mind. If he wants to bring me on as an advisor, I'd be glad to switch careers.

That being said, I would have been far superior to Chiarelli in Edmonton or Dorion in Ottawa or Fenton in Minnesota.

If you and Ray are looking for a highly paid “yes man” then I would just like to say that I am available :nod::D
 

nugg

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Ha, thanks, but I must say that Ray Shero is doing a terrific job in my mind. If he wants to bring me on as an advisor, I'd be glad to switch careers.

That being said, I would have been far superior to Chiarelli in Edmonton or Dorion in Ottawa or Fenton in Minnesota.
Ray should've fleeced Fenton of Niederreiter himself.
 
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StevenToddIves

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Ray should've fleeced Fenton of Niederreiter himself.

Bad GMs (like Fenton) don't always do due diligence before making a deal, whereas good GMs (like Poile, Yzerman, Cheveldayoff) always make certain to maximize value on their assets.

Honestly, do you really think that if Fenton had emailed even 5 other GMs and said "I've been offered Viktor Rask for Nino Neiderreiter, can you top that?" no one would top that? It was just an absurdly bad deal. If I were asked to name the 30 best bottom-6 Fs in the NHL, Rask's name would not even be in consideration. Nino N. has 30+goal upside, and plays a phenomenal two-way, physical game.
 

StevenToddIves

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The fluidity when projecting the draft is just incredible. A two game win-streak, and all of a sudden the Devils currently sit in the 5th draft position. Moreover, with Edmonton drafting 3rd and Detroit 4th, this would create a fascinating hypothetical where Hughes/Kakko/Cozens/Byram go 1 through 4 OA and the Devils wind up choosing between Podkolzin/Turcotte/Zegras.
 

devilsblood

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Bad GMs (like Fenton) don't always do due diligence before making a deal, whereas good GMs (like Poile, Yzerman, Cheveldayoff) always make certain to maximize value on their assets.

Honestly, do you really think that if Fenton had emailed even 5 other GMs and said "I've been offered Viktor Rask for Nino Neiderreiter, can you top that?" no one would top that? It was just an absurdly bad deal. If I were asked to name the 30 best bottom-6 Fs in the NHL, Rask's name would not even be in consideration. Nino N. has 30+goal upside, and plays a phenomenal two-way, physical game.
Rask actually has more 45+ point seasons under his belt then Niederreiter does.
 

StevenToddIves

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Rask actually has more 45+ point seasons under his belt then Niederreiter does.

If you want to make a gentleman's wager about which of these players will have more 45+ point seasons in the future, I'd love to.

Rask is a borderline 4th line C who plays an ok two-way game devoid of physicality. Niederreiter has been PPG since finally getting traded to a team which gives him opportunity on the PP1 and in a top-six role. He is better defensively than Rask, dictates possession better, and plays far more physical. Fenton basically made a "shake things up" deal without due diligence of player values, both to his own team and the teams which might be willing to deal.

It's too early to evaluate Fenton's acumen entirely, but judging on the facts that he made the worst pick in the 2018 draft (Filip Johansson) and that he made the worst in-season deal all season (Niederreiter), I'd be very wary were I a Minnesota fan.
 
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devilsblood

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If you want to make a gentleman's wager about which of these players will have more 45+ point seasons in the future, I'd love to.

Rask is a borderline 4th line C who plays an ok two-way game devoid of physicality. Niederreiter has been PPG since finally getting traded to a team which gives him opportunity on the PP1 and in a top-six role. He is better defensively than Rask, dictates possession better, and plays far more physical. Fenton basically made a "shake things up" deal without due diligence of player values, both to his own team and the teams which might be willing to deal.

It's too early to evaluate Fenton's acumen entirely, but judging on the facts that he made the worst pick in the 2018 draft (Filip Johansson) and that he made the worst in-season deal all season (Niederreiter), I'd be very wary were I a Minnesota fan.
Borderline 4th line center? Rask has averaged 39 points a season in his 4 year career prior to this year.

Nino played over 2 minutes a game of PP time in Minny. He's at about 2:30 now. So a bit of a jump. Rask over the past 3 seasons averaged about 2 minutes of pp time as well.

And Nino's most common linemate with Minny last year? Eric Staal and his 76 points.

I'm not arguing it was a good trade for Minny, and certainly with Nino's hot start in Carolina, and Rask's slow start in minny, it does look pretty bad for Minny early, but your take seems pretty off base.
 
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StevenToddIves

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Borderline 4th line center? Rask has averaged 39 points a season in his 4 year career prior to this year.

Nino played over 2 minutes a game of PP time in Minny. He's at about 2:30 now. So a bit of a jump. Rask over the past 3 seasons averaged about 2 minutes of pp time as well.

And Nino's most common linemate with Minny last year? Eric Staal and his 76 points.

I'm not arguing it was a good trade for Minny, and certainly with Nino's hot start in Carolina, and Rask's slow start in minny, it does look pretty bad for Minny early, but your take seems pretty off base.

Ok, take my gentleman's bet. You have nothing to lose. I will add that, on the Devils, Rask may not have even cracked the roster until the Boyle deal, whereas Niederreiter would be playing in our top 6 all year long. I'm not trying to rip on Rask, I just think he's an average 4th liner at best, while Niederreiter is a very good top-6 F with the ability to play either wing with a high level of two-way acumen and physicality. I feel confidently that most NHL GMs and experts would agree with me on this.
 

Nubmer6

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The fluidity when projecting the draft is just incredible. A two game win-streak, and all of a sudden the Devils currently sit in the 5th draft position. Moreover, with Edmonton drafting 3rd and Detroit 4th, this would create a fascinating hypothetical where Hughes/Kakko/Cozens/Byram go 1 through 4 OA and the Devils wind up choosing between Podkolzin/Turcotte/Zegras.
You underestimate the power of Taylor Hall. With him as our good luck charm, we have a 117% chance to win a lottery slot.
 

devilsblood

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Ok, take my gentleman's bet. You have nothing to lose. I will add that, on the Devils, Rask may not have even cracked the roster until the Boyle deal, whereas Niederreiter would be playing in our top 6 all year long. I'm not trying to rip on Rask, I just think he's an average 4th liner at best, while Niederreiter is a very good top-6 F with the ability to play either wing with a high level of two-way acumen and physicality. I feel confidently that most NHL GMs and experts would agree with me on this.
I find this a very odd take given that at age 25 he has posted 2 45+ seasons in his career.
 

MichaelJ

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Nico is an outstanding player, and he's getting better every game. Every Devils fan should be thrilled to have him in the organization. I'm thrilled to root him on for the next decade-plus.


Steve, in looking at Zegras/Turcotte/Krebs, they all seem very similar. How would you separate them?
 

Smitty426

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The fluidity when projecting the draft is just incredible. A two game win-streak, and all of a sudden the Devils currently sit in the 5th draft position. Moreover, with Edmonton drafting 3rd and Detroit 4th, this would create a fascinating hypothetical where Hughes/Kakko/Cozens/Byram go 1 through 4 OA and the Devils wind up choosing between Podkolzin/Turcotte/Zegras.
Devs Feb/March Sked: New Jersey Devils Schedule
and once Shero makes any move(s) for assets then what? For instance MoJO is moved. There goes half of the guys who can get zone entry. Leaving Nico as the only guy not on inured reserve. If KK gets moved for pylons and Cory reverts back to anytime in the last year then what. If Ray moves Rev half of the nest PK d tandem in the league is gone, then what. You are absolutely right about the movement in the division. But if we expect this team to get better after being worn down all season and losing assets that kept us where we were all season (bottom of the pack) We should be fine in the top 5 IMO
 
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Nubmer6

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Devs Feb/March Sked: New Jersey Devils Schedule
and once Shero makes any move(s) for assets then what? For instance MoJO is moved. There goes half of the guys who can get zone entry. Leaving Nico as the only guy not on inured reserve. If KK gets moved for pylons and Cory reverts back to anytime in the last year then what. If Ray moves Rev half of the nest PK d tandem in the league is gone, then what. You are absolutely right about the movement in the division. But if we expect this team to get better after being worn down all season and losing assets that kept us where we were all season (bottom of the pack) We should be fine in the top 5 IMO
We're probably going to get Hall and Vatanen back from IR. I think that more than makes up for MoJo and Lovejoy.
 
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