Devils 2019-20 team discussion (news, notes and speculation) in limbo part II

[Ripshot 43]

Just wait until Schneider goes 8 games over .500 next year with a sub 2.75 GAA and a .918 save percentage.

for Bing?

 

[My3Sons]

Shero’s biggest mistake last year was having faith in Schneider.

That and Subban having such a poor season and scoring at a sub-Adam Larsson pace were the biggest nukes in our season. Shero probably paid for that and maybe even the Hall saga and not being able to keep him. I’m sure the extended faith in Hynes did him no favors.

The Subban slump was not something to be foreseen, but the Schneider blow up had been evident for 3 years before this one.

Four more years! Four more years!

 

[MadDevil]

Cory will rebound...right when we don't want him to.

 

[Pitaya]

So now that the layout of the potential playoffs has been established this past week...

Im guessing we have to have a GM named before the draft (September?) so what are the odds we dont have a coach named by then? Im constantly reminded about interviewing coaches who may have jobs right now but I dont understand that logic since we dont know whos available until theyre fired

Every month that passes without knowing if Fitzgerald is the permanent GM gives me less and less confidence in this ownership group

 

[Forge]

Im guessing we have to have a GM named before the draft (September?) so what are the odds we dont have a coach named by then?

Not a guarantee. It's not unprecedented to do the draft without a GM. Toronto did it a few years back in 2015 (and also in 2008, I'm pretty sure). Boston did it in 2006 (and Gorton killed that draft lol).

 

[beekay414]

Not a guarantee. It's not unprecedented to do the draft without a GM. Toronto did it a few years back in 2015 (and also in 2008, I'm pretty sure). Boston did it in 2006 (and Gorton killed that draft lol).

Didn't Gorton also kill it in free agency that year? He's arguably the reason why they won the Cup in '11.

 

[Bleedred]

There were some warning signs with Subban if you look at his last season with Nashville, but not enough to think his production would nosedive as badly as it did with us. I'm not ready to write him off completely yet though. He was asked to do a lot on a weak defense corps on a team that was a complete disaster for the first ~30 games.

Subban wasn't a disaster. He had a little bit of a down year but was still a capable top-4 defender. His scoring was down but our top scorer had like 50 points so I don't know that you can necessarily blame him for that.

Subban definitely wasn’t a disaster and I don’t understand why some want him off the team so bad. He’s only had one poor year so far and I’ll consider it a down year unless it’s repeated next year.

But I do think everyone from Shero to the fans thought we’d get much more offensive production out of him and his poor offensive season wasn’t something Shero or anyone saw coming. I think he still scored at a 0.5 PPG or so pace the year before in Nashville.

 

[Forge]

Didn't Gorton also kill it in free agency that year? He's arguably the reason why they won the Cup in '11.

Yep. Believe that was the year they signed Chara. Also traded Rycroft for Rask

 

[beekay414]

Yep. Believe that was the year they signed Chara. Also traded Rycroft for Rask

God damn, what a parting gift lol.

 

[Forge]

God damn, what a parting gift lol.

My favorite part is the guy they replaced him with was chia lol

 

[beekay414]

My favorite part is the guy they replaced him with was chia lol

HAHAHAAHAHAH I forgot about that lol

 

[MadDevil]

Subban definitely wasn’t a disaster and I don’t understand why some want him off the team so bad. He’s only had one poor year so far and I’ll consider it a down year unless it’s repeated next year.

But I do think everyone from Shero to the fans thought we’d get much more offensive production out of him and his poor offensive season wasn’t something Shero or anyone saw coming. I think he still scored at a 0.5 PPG or so pace the year before in Nashville.

Yeah he was just barely under at .49 PPG. Which at the time was tied for the second lowest in his career. But I don't think anybody saw him dropping to .26 PPG with us. And I don't think he was nearly as bad defensively as some made him out to be either. I wouldn't say he was great, or even all that good really, but he certainly wasn't so bad to where we need to get rid of him.

 

[Nubmer6]

The biggest gripe I can have with Shero is not addressing the defense. Forward-wise and goaltending I have no complaints. It's not like he hasn't tried with the assets he had (Moore, Vatanen, Mueller, Subban, Butcher). He tried to address it without mortgaging the future as we didn't have the assets to spare to go after any of the bigger names who were dealt for packages.

Actually, I have a gripe about how he handled the drafting. First, he decided that we forwards and arguably bypassed BPA and took all Fs early, then realized we had nothing at LD and drafted a ton of them leaving us with few RHD in Bing, then he realized our D was too soft so he spent the better part of an entire draft picking up huge defenders, passing up some good forwards to trade down and to accumulate more.

It's the classic over-reaction.

 

[MadDevil]

Actually, I have a gripe about how he handled the drafting. First, he decided that we forwards and arguably bypassed BPA and took all Fs early, then realized we had nothing at LD and drafted a ton of them leaving us with few RHD in Bing, then he realized our D was too soft so he spent the better part of an entire draft picking up huge defenders, passing up some good forwards to trade down and to accumulate more.

It's the classic over-reaction.

Hindsight is 20/20, but man you look at that 2016 draft and you've got McAvoy and Chychrun who went within 4 picks of McLeod, and then Girard who went 6 picks after Bastian and wonder what could have been for our defense.

 

[Oneiro]

Yeah, that’s assuming that McAvoy, Chychrun and Girard all become the same player in NJ.

I don’t know how true that would be considering the massive underachievement that’s gone on here. Sometimes careers really come down to luck and context. These guys are not fixed properties on draft day - they get introduced into a much larger more complex puzzle. We’ll never know how many careers turned just on the fact that this guy’s locker was next to this other guy.

 

[MadDevil]

Yeah, that’s assuming that McAvoy, Chychrun and Girard all become the same player in NJ.

I don’t know how true that would be considering the massive underachievement that’s gone on here. Sometimes careers really come down to luck and context. These guys are not fixed properties on draft day - they get introduced into a much larger more complex puzzle. We’ll never know how many careers turned just on the fact that this guy’s locker was next to this other guy.

True, and I'm not passing judgement on the actual picks so much as playing the "what if" game, which can be fun (or sad and painful) sometimes.

 

[SJinNewJersey]

True, and I'm not passing judgement on the actual picks so much as playing the "what if" game, which can be fun (or sad and painful) sometimes.

It's been more painful than fun for a while.

 

[glenwo2]

Yeah, that’s assuming that McAvoy, Chychrun and Girard all become the same player in NJ.

I don’t know how true that would be considering the massive underachievement that’s gone on here. Sometimes careers really come down to luck and context. These guys are not fixed properties on draft day - they get introduced into a much larger more complex puzzle. We’ll never know how many careers turned just on the fact that this guy’s locker was next to this other guy.

In other words : "The Grass is always greener"

Same old story here.

 

[Zippy316]

Actually, I have a gripe about how he handled the drafting. First, he decided that we forwards and arguably bypassed BPA and took all Fs early, then realized we had nothing at LD and drafted a ton of them leaving us with few RHD in Bing, then he realized our D was too soft so he spent the better part of an entire draft picking up huge defenders, passing up some good forwards to trade down and to accumulate more.

It's the classic over-reaction.

That's fair. I feel like for the McLeod pick that is definitely how the Devils had the board ranked.

They were dead set on the fast, attacking, supportive. If you're going with that kind of mantra, the scouting department needs to emphasize those traits and find you the best players to fit your system. McLeod looked like that at the time.

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

Actually, I have a gripe about how he handled the drafting. First, he decided that we forwards and arguably bypassed BPA and took all Fs early, then realized we had nothing at LD and drafted a ton of them leaving us with few RHD in Bing, then he realized our D was too soft so he spent the better part of an entire draft picking up huge defenders, passing up some good forwards to trade down and to accumulate more.

It's the classic over-reaction.

Tough to say. The reality is the only players that can be reasonably be expected to become high end type of players are higher picks. The Devils had 4 1st round picks with Shero/Castron. 3 F's and one DMan. That seems like a reasonable grouping for a team that had no elite talent in the system.

Teams need to hit on some picks outside of the first round. Good teams always have those. But IMO a team should just pick a player that they think can succeed in the league. For better or worse, it seemed like Shero was building using the philosophy of finding high producing forwards first. We will find out in the next few years if they did.

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

Yeah he was just barely under at .49 PPG. Which at the time was tied for the second lowest in his career. But I don't think anybody saw him dropping to .26 PPG with us. And I don't think he was nearly as bad defensively as some made him out to be either. I wouldn't say he was great, or even all that good really, but he certainly wasn't so bad to where we need to get rid of him.

I will play "the broken record" one more time. No surprise this was the case IMO.

 

[Devils731]

I will play "the broken record" one more time. No surprise this was the case IMO.

I mean, the chart says to expect a defenseman to get a little worse at Subban’s age, not see his offensive production cut in half as a 30 year old.

Watching a younger Subban play versus Subban now and he looks like a guy with a bad back that makes his upper body very stiff, killing his agility and hurting his power.

His back is more concerning than his age, to me. I’d happily take a 26 year old Subban that is now 31 and sliding down the age curve over a 31 year old Subban that has a deep spike down due to injuries.

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

I mean, the chart says to expect a defenseman to get a little worse at Subban’s age, not see his offensive production cut in half as a 30 year old.

Watching a younger Subban play versus Subban now and he looks like a guy with a bad back that makes his upper body very stiff, killing his agility and hurting his power.

His back is more concerning than his age, to me. I’d happily take a 26 year old Subban that is now 31 and sliding down the age curve over a 31 year old Subban that has a deep spike down due to injuries.

WAR/GAR do not do as good of a job with DMen. I should have put a PPG chart up. Thy are a more smooth curve. I was more posting it for posters thinking he could have a big upsurge moving forward. IMO the best use of these charts is for teams to project and plan around that projection.

 

[Devilsfan118]

Cory will rebound...right when we don't want him to.

When the games mean absolutely nothing and there's no pressure on him whatsoever - book it.

Love Cory (the person) but he's the most mentally fragile goalie I've ever seen in my life.

 

[Bleedred]

When the games mean absolutely nothing and there's no pressure on him whatsoever - book it.

Love Cory (the person) but he's the most mentally fragile goalie I've ever seen in my life.

Hopefully we never see him play in a Devils uniform again, since this season is over for us and he needs to be off the team next year. So let’s not book it.

This mentally fragile thing is kind of dumb.

He’s not mentally fragile, he’s physically fragile these days.

His hot streaks that he has in garbage time and putrid streaks when games still matter aren’t because he’s mentally fragile. They’re merely a matter of chance and the guy was never gonna sustain the .852% save percentage that he had over his first 9 games played in both of the last two seasons.

He’s just a bad goalie anymore due to injuries, but he’s not .850% bad and he’s certainly not .920% good anymore or whatever he was to end the 18-19 season or what he was pacing for to end this past season with.