Devils 2019-20 team discussion (news and notes) II

[NJDevs26]

A) they have no cap space and B) he would never go back there

You wouldn't think so but it IS a new management team.

I don't take much of the cap gaslighting seriously though with offseason after offseason of teams with cap issues getting hyped up and more often than not it turns out they find a way out of it without any real pain aside from Toronto trading a 1st in the Marleau deal. The cap crunch hype is on par with the trade deadline hype as another thing that usually turns into a dud.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

Yeah, you're only getting a Byram with an extended Hall.

But it would be a very rough sell to most fans. Smith and Byram aren't going to light this league up the same way a Makar or Doughty did. You're still looking at a multiyear process where you need to shield young players.

Idk, I'm very high on Byram lol and I'm starting to have 2nd thoughts on keeping Hall around.

 

[johnny pierogi]

The team needs 1) defense 2) size and 3) structure

We need to work on 3 right now because that'll help a lot. As someone said earlier, it looks like a lot of players are playing "their" game right now. They need cohesion, fast.

 

[Scintillating10]

The team needs 1) defense 2) size and 3) structure

We need to work on 3 right now because that'll help a lot. As someone said earlier, it looks like a lot of players are playing "their" game right now. They need cohesion, fast.

What do you fellows think of Subban?

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

I would like to know a few realistic players you think we can get in a trade...

Again, the Mark Stone trade is the comparable. He returned Brannstrom (good D prospect), a roster player who is already out of the NHL, and a 2nd round pick 2 drafts away at the time.

I think some of ya'll are aiming WAY too high in what we are realistically going to receive in return if Hall is traded.

Brannstrom was a top #10 prospect at the time of the deal and probably the reason why Ottawa were ok getting a 2nd round pick instead of a 1st round pick.

That’s the type of deal I’m looking for. A prospect that will help in a year or two instead of a 1st round pick that will potentially crack our roster 3 to 4 years from now.

Again, I’m fully aware that Hall alone won’t return someone like Byram, I get that, but why can’t we add another piece to make it happen? They look stacked at D and they’ve been looking to add a #2 center or a little bit more punch up front. Can someone like Zacha be of interest considering we have Hischier and Hughes locked down for the next decade in our top #6? Maybe that package can entice Sakic and at the same time help us recoup a draft pick we gave up last summer to acquire Gusev or Subban?

My ideal scenario would look something like Hall and Zacha for Byram, Wilson (cap dump for this year) and a 3rd.

Zadorov is a nice option but I don’t see them moving a key part of their top #4 when they’re trying to win now.

At some point, you have to take a risk and go for it. As good as Byram might be, he hasn’t played a second in the NHL whereas Hall has shown to be a legit stud who’s still 28 years of age.

It’s a gamble but a gamble I’m sure their fan base would approve if it made them the top team in the west for the next several years.

 

[Scooooooooooooot]

Brannstrom was a top #10 prospect at the time of the deal and probably the reason why Ottawa were ok getting a 2nd round pick instead of a 1st round pick.

That’s the type of deal I’m looking for. A prospect that will help in a year or two instead of a 1st round pick that will potentially crack our roster 3 to 4 years from now.

Again, I’m fully aware that Hall alone won’t return someone like Byram, I get that, but why can’t we add another piece to make it happen? They look stacked at D and they’ve been looking to add a #2 center or a little bit more punch up front. Can someone like Zacha be of interest considering we have Hischier and Hughes locked down for the next decade in our top #6? Maybe that package can entice Sakic and at the same time help us recoup a draft pick we gave up last summer to acquire Gusev or Subban?

My ideal scenario would look something like Hall and Zacha for Byram, Wilson (cap dump for this year) and a 3rd.

Zadorov is a nice option but I don’t see them moving a key part of their top #4 when they’re trying to win now.

At some point, you have to take a risk and go for it. As good as Byram might be, he hasn’t played a second in the NHL whereas Hall has shown to be a legit stud who’s still 28 years of age.

It’s a gamble but a gamble I’m sure their fan base would approve if it made them the top team in the west for the next several years.

If this is possible I would do it, not sure how likely it is though. But if they are comfortable with Girard, Makar, Johnson, Zadorov as their top 4 with Timmons waiting in the wing... then that would be fantastic for us to get someone as good as Byram who I love.

 

[devilsblood]

Andy Greene & Ben Lovejoy.

For all the shit these guys have gotten the past couple years, we could really use both of those guys right now.

 

[devilsblood]

What do you fellows think of Subban?

I think he is living up to the scouting report of a high energy, skilled player who takes risks.

One negative that was not in the scouting report though is that he is not fleet of foot. Is that age? Wear and tear of an NHL d-man in his 10th year in the league? Dunno, but he is currently average at best in the speed department.

 

[BahlDeep]

I think he is living up to the scouting report of a high energy, skilled player who takes risks.

One negative that was not in the scouting report though is that he is not fleet of foot. Is that age? Wear and tear of an NHL d-man in his 10th year in the league? Dunno, but he is currently average at best in the speed department.

Subban has always been a dynamic skater instead of a speedy one, if that makes sense

 

[Devilsfan118]

I think he is living up to the scouting report of a high energy, skilled player who takes risks.

One negative that was not in the scouting report though is that he is not fleet of foot. Is that age? Wear and tear of an NHL d-man in his 10th year in the league? Dunno, but he is currently average at best in the speed department.

Was he ever known as a blazing skater out there?

 

[devilsblood]

Subban has always been a dynamic skater instead of a speedy one, if that makes sense

Was he ever known as a blazing skater out there?

Maybe I was just unaware, but still, I have to believe he was quicker 5 years ago.

And maybe that should not be surprising, that a 30 year old in his 10th season has lost a step, but I am surprised.

 

[Devilsfan118]

Maybe I was just unaware, but still, I have to believe he was quicker 5 years ago.

And maybe that should not be surprising, that a 30 year old in his 10th season has lost a step, but I am surprised.

Yeah it might just be the natural progression of things, I guess.

Shifting the discussion here slightly - but how about Subban's slapper/one-timer? Have we seen a blast on the PP yet?

I can't recall seeing one. Little confused about that.

 

[devilsblood]

Yeah it might just be the natural progression of things, I guess.

Shifting the discussion here slightly - but how about Subban's slapper/one-timer? Have we seen a blast on the PP yet?

I can't recall seeing one. Little confused about that.

I remember him winding up a couple times, but I think they were feints.

 

[TrufleShufle]

I remember him winding up a couple times, but I think they were feints.

He has wound up for a slapper close to 3-4 times per PP when they actually get set up. Only once have I've seen him let it go, and it was right into a players shins causing a break away the other way.

 

[BahlDeep]

Yeah it might just be the natural progression of things, I guess.

Shifting the discussion here slightly - but how about Subban's slapper/one-timer? Have we seen a blast on the PP yet?

I can't recall seeing one. Little confused about that.

Subban should be a triggerman on the point instead of being used to feed the wingers on the PP. I feel like he should play more on the left side then in the middle on the pp.

That's how he was used in MTL and he had great numbers on the PP.

 

[devilsblood]

Subban should be a triggerman on the point instead of being used to feed the wingers on the PP. I feel like he should play more on the left side then in the middle on the pp.

That's how he was used in MTL and he had great numbers on the PP.

Wouldn't that:

1)Squeeze Palm's spot?

2)Require a 2nd d-man?

 

[My3Sons]

Andy Greene & Ben Lovejoy.

For all the **** these guys have gotten the past couple years, we could really use both of those guys right now.

they would certainly help on the penalty kill and Green seems to be playing well before getting injured. That said they are both old and slow and have no ability to help move the puck up ice. Plus I’m not sure how much Lovejoy had left outside of the penalty kill last season. NJ really needs a legit top pairing that could take pressure off the other pairs. I’m hoping PK can be half of a top pairing but it seems they need the right partner for him. I leave it to others to decide if that player is currently on the roster. Overall I’m not thrilled with the construction of the defense although I am open to the idea that it is 90% on Hynes and staff mismanaging then.

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

Brannstrom was a top #10 prospect at the time of the deal and probably the reason why Ottawa were ok getting a 2nd round pick instead of a 1st round pick.

That’s the type of deal I’m looking for. A prospect that will help in a year or two instead of a 1st round pick that will potentially crack our roster 3 to 4 years from now.

Again, I’m fully aware that Hall alone won’t return someone like Byram, I get that, but why can’t we add another piece to make it happen? They look stacked at D and they’ve been looking to add a #2 center or a little bit more punch up front. Can someone like Zacha be of interest considering we have Hischier and Hughes locked down for the next decade in our top #6? Maybe that package can entice Sakic and at the same time help us recoup a draft pick we gave up last summer to acquire Gusev or Subban?

My ideal scenario would look something like Hall and Zacha for Byram, Wilson (cap dump for this year) and a 3rd.

Zadorov is a nice option but I don’t see them moving a key part of their top #4 when they’re trying to win now.

At some point, you have to take a risk and go for it. As good as Byram might be, he hasn’t played a second in the NHL whereas Hall has shown to be a legit stud who’s still 28 years of age.

It’s a gamble but a gamble I’m sure their fan base would approve if it made them the top team in the west for the next several years.

They traded for Kadri. Sakic is a sharp GM - he looks for value contracts. I highly doubt Sakic would consider a trade where Hall would be the key piece for Byram who will be playing for 3 years on an ELC starting next year.

 

[devilsblood]

they would certainly help on the penalty kill and Green seems to be playing well before getting injured. That said they are both old and slow and have no ability to help move the puck up ice. Plus I’m not sure how much Lovejoy had left outside of the penalty kill last season. NJ really needs a legit top pairing that could take pressure off the other pairs. I’m hoping PK can be half of a top pairing but it seems they need the right partner for him. I leave it to others to decide if that player is currently on the roster. Overall I’m not thrilled with the construction of the defense although I am open to the idea that it is 90% on Hynes and staff mismanaging then.

The Greene injury maybe just highlights how bad our left side was.

But he and Subban were very good together, in terms of possession and goals scored. This while the team was losing games in awful fashion.

I wonder if he were not injured, and you went

Greene Subban- Which was good for 3 games
Butcher Vat's- Also good results thus far
Mueller Sevs- Terrible, but this would be sheltered 3rd pair minutes

If we would not be more confident in the defense right now.

 

[Scooooooooooooot]

The Greene injury maybe just highlights how bad our left side was.

But he and Subban were very good together, in terms of possession and goals scored. This while the team was losing games in awful fashion.

I wonder if he were not injured, and you went

Greene Subban- Which was good for 3 games
Butcher Vat's- Also good results thus far
Mueller Sevs- Terrible, but this would be sheltered 3rd pair minutes

If we would not be more confident in the defense right now.

I would rather have carrick in there than mueller

 

[devilsblood]

I would rather have carrick in there than mueller

I'd much rather Mueller for a couple reasons

First and foremost is he is a lefty, which would be important at 5v5 as well as PK

2nd is he can play PK. Though his #'s have been terrible in that dept thus far, he has shown proficient there in years past.

Third is stylistically I think he is a better match with Sev's. Yes there #'s together have been terrible thus far, but I'll write that off as small sample, and in this lineup, they would be getting some very sheltered minutes.

 

[My3Sons]

The Greene injury maybe just highlights how bad our left side was.

But he and Subban were very good together, in terms of possession and goals scored. This while the team was losing games in awful fashion.

I wonder if he were not injured, and you went

Greene Subban- Which was good for 3 games
Butcher Vat's- Also good results thus far
Mueller Sevs- Terrible, but this would be sheltered 3rd pair minutes

If we would not be more confident in the defense right now.

I’m not a huge advanced stats guy but I think the advanced stats support your idea. The team really needs to renovate the defense from the ground up rather than use band aids and duct tape. Greene may be older than me at this point and PK is on the wrong side of 30. Butcher is a good player but limited in his skating and Sevs just hasn’t put it together and same with Mueller. Vats is headed towards an extension that may not fit the NJ time frame long term and the only obvious reinforcement is Smith at the end of his junior season who looked like he needed a longer adjustment period this past preseason. I know the team drafters a number of defenders this past draft and hopefully one or more will make it but those guys are years away. Maybe guys like BASTIAN ANDERSON and McLeod can push the bottom of the lineup and one or more extra forwards can be traded and return a competent left defender for next season.

 

[devilsblood]

Shero talked about Fitz perhaps seeing things different in terms of players being used in different roles.

Butcher, by necessity, due to Greene's injury, has gotten some tougher minutes in recent games, but I wonder if that is expanded even more. I also wonder about the PK. Could we see Butcher get a heavier load there? He has played a couple minutes recently, again by necessity, but get this, he hasn't been on for a PK goal against. Given our struggles thus far a man down, that is noteworthy.

 

[devilsblood]

I’m not a huge advanced stats guy but I think the advanced stats support your idea. The team really needs to renovate the defense from the ground up rather than use band aids and duct tape. Greene may be older than me at this point and PK is on the wrong side of 30. Butcher is a good player but limited in his skating and Sevs just hasn’t put it together and same with Mueller. Vats is headed towards an extension that may not fit the NJ time frame long term and the only obvious reinforcement is Smith at the end of his junior season who looked like he needed a longer adjustment period this past preseason. I know the team drafters a number of defenders this past draft and hopefully one or more will make it but those guys are years away. Maybe guys like BASTIAN ANDERSON and McLeod can push the bottom of the lineup and one or more extra forwards can be traded and return a competent left defender for next season.

1)I think the fact that he and Subban were good in both Corsi and Goals for, says that this is more then just advanced stat mumbo jumbo, which I agree you will see posted quite often.

2)At this point I'm really not looking ahead to next year, but I am not penciling Smith in for a spot. Maybe he earns it, but I will wait till training camp next year on this one.

 

[BahlDeep]

If Fitz can't see that:
A) Subban-Severson is an absolute terrible pair
B) Severson should be no where near our first pair
C) Mueller is a stabilizer in terms of defending (GA/60 has shown that)

He should pack his shit too and gtfo alongside Hynes.

And it's quite funny how Greene got absolutely disrespected on this board because apparently he was bringing down Severson with his play. Now that Severson plays with an actual #2 defenseman, people are quickly realizing that maybe it was Severson that was bringing down his previous partners. As someone mentioned, Greene and Subban as a pair were doing well relatively speaking.