Devils 2018-19 team discussion (news and notes) - Preseason

[devilsblood]

Prospects go off in pre-season all the time. Speers did it two years ago, Lappin went off three years ago. Bratt and Hischier last year.

There was an open spot for anyone that was able to step up going against a mix of other prospects, career AHLers and NHLers just going through the motions. What does it say about the players' effort and determination if they look outmatched against that?

Speers looked solid 2 years ago, but had one assist.

Bratt's play last year was a different beast, he had 2g's 2 a's and I'd say his play was far better then his #'s.

Year prior Lappin had 2g's and and assist, but his play wasn't anywhere near the level of Bratt's last year.

 

[Blender]

Lol last year people said the preseason doesn't matter because Stafford had like 8 pts in 4 games

Yup, and the same people pushing this narrative about the preseason tanking our season were pushing the opposite narrative last year.

 

[devilsblood]

What an argument...

If it's not Greene, then who is it? The only other person it possibly even could be is Butcher and he's never played more than the third pairing.

Ya, and maybe Butcher is better, on the PP he clearly is, but Greene had as tough a usage as any player in the league last year, while Butcher had super easy minutes. Using stats( I'm assuming he's talking corsi) from last year to compare the 2 is as superficial as you can get.

 

[MartyOwns]

I missed it. Steal and breakaway?

steal, yeah...probably over half the attempts. i wonder if that’s tracked

What an argument...

If it's not Greene, then who is it? The only other person it possibly even could be is Butcher and he's never played more than the third pairing.

please say smith please say smith

 

[Cult of Hynes]

What an argument...

If it's not Greene, then who is it? The only other person it possibly even could be is Butcher and he's never played more than the third pairing.

It's clearly Butcher at this point. Greene can't pass, can't shoot, makes horrible choices with the puck, takes too long to make that horrible choice, has a hard time clearing the puck at this point too.

How he played prior to the past few seasons, and Hyne's insistence on over playing him and relying on him doesn't mean he is our best dman.

And yea, pointing to the stats of his is a good arguement. You have no actual positive one except, well, he gets played on the top pairing so he must be good.

He drags every pairing he plays with down at this point in his career. He is an anchor, and not in a good way now.

 

[devilsblood]

And yea, pointing to the stats of his is a good arguement. You have no actual positive one except, well, he gets played on the top pairing so he must be good.

It was pointed out to you the other day that he played top 5 in the league PK minutes for a PK that was amongst the best in the league.

But of course you glossed over it.

And the argument is not "he plays tough minutes thus he is good", but you have to take into consideration that he plays ridiculously difficult minutes, while at times chaperoning a rookie through those minutes. That's why his stats don't look good. And the easy minutes are why Butchers minutes do look so good.

So not only should we not compare stats because of the difficulty of minutes, but Greene should get credit for taking those tough minutes which allows Butcher, who is clearly more talented offensively, to succeed in a much easier role.

 

[Missionhockey]

Is Wyshynski even a Devils fan anymore? His lust for Vegas makes me want to puke. Having a season that Fleury did at his age most certainly is an aberration. Hand in your fan card, Greg, and go cheer for that Nazi Bill Foley’s team in Vegas instead.

Wysh acknowledges that he's tougher on them than he is on other teams. I guess it's his counter to internet people claiming he's biased.

 

[Missionhockey]

It's clearly Butcher at this point. Greene can't pass, can't shoot, makes horrible choices with the puck, takes too long to make that horrible choice, has a hard time clearing the puck at this point too.

How he played prior to the past few seasons, and Hyne's insistence on over playing him and relying on him doesn't mean he is our best dman.

And yea, pointing to the stats of his is a good arguement. You have no actual positive one except, well, he gets played on the top pairing so he must be good.

He drags every pairing he plays with down at this point in his career. He is an anchor, and not in a good way now.

You just claimed an NHL player "can't pass, can't shoot."

I don't think I need to respond to an argument like that.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

what people are also forgetting is that like 4 of our top 7-10 prospects aren't even in training camp

Boqvist, Zetterlund, Davies, Walsh, and Talvitie are all out there with their schools/teams already.

 

[Cult of Hynes]

You just claimed an NHL player "can't pass, can't shoot."

I don't think I need to respond to an argument like that.

He can't at the NHL level anymore lol.

Watch how he botches passes to wide open players time and time again. Watch how horrible his shot selection is and how weak of a shot they usually are when they get through once in a while.

In OT last game he botched a 4 foot pass to a wide open player with no pressuring player on his ass.

You're in denial. It's okay, I understand.

He shouldn't be on this team next year. He's going to be really bad once mid season comes around this year. Even worse than the past two seasons.

 

[OmNomNom]

He can't at the NHL level anymore lol.

Watch how he botches passes to wide open players time and time again. Watch how horrible his shot selection is and how weak of a shot they usually are when they get through once in a while.

In OT last game he botched a 4 foot pass to a wide open player with no pressuring player on his ass.

You're in denial. It's okay, I understand.

That would mean more if he were a forward

 

[Bleedred]

I think Greene sucks at this point, but I do think he's still decent enough to play reliable minutes in a bottom pairing role.

Now, that was as of last year and based on last year's play. We haven't seen enough of him yet this year to know if he's declined even further and he's only played a couple preseason games anyway.

As far as the top pairing goes, I expect him to continue to get crushed in that role. And he seemed to get worse at last season went on. I remember him not being that bad in October and November. You could tell he was getting older, but he wasn't that bad. By December or January is when I really started noticing him just breaking down and there was one point where he started to look worse just by the game. I joked (even though it probably wasn't a joke, I think it might have been the truth) that Greene probably hit his minutes played capabilities by game 65 of the season, with all the minutes he played every game.

Hopefully he hasn't declined any further. I thought he was still decent in 2016-2017. He also had to carry Lovejoy's weight around for most of that season. Maybe that did him in, but I think the minutes and wear and tear really caught up to him last year, especially the further into the season that we went.

 

[Missionhockey]

He can't at the NHL level anymore lol.

Watch how he botches passes to wide open players time and time again. Watch how horrible his shot selection is and how weak of a shot they usually are when they get through once in a while.

In OT last game he botched a 4 foot pass to a wide open player with no pressuring player on his ass.

You're in denial. It's okay, I understand.

He shouldn't be on this team next year. He's going to be really bad once mid season comes around this year. Even worse than the past two seasons.

What am I "in denial" of exactly?

 

[MadDevil]

Greene is still fine as a 2nd/3rd pairing guy. I'm hoping that they can spread the minutes around a little more this year so he doesn't have to be a punching bag like he has the last couple years.

 

[devilsblood]

He drags every pairing he plays with down at this point in his career. He is an anchor, and not in a good way now.

When you say things like this is just shows you don't understand what is happening with the stats.

Greene is not dragging his partners #'s down. But when guys play with Greene they are playing against much tougher competition then when they don't play with him. That is why their #'s fall off. Not Greene, it's the comp.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

to say Greene isn't even an NHL player anymore is just plain false

Cult of Hynes has some sort of weird vendetta against Greene

 

[Oneiro]

Wow, this place is in mid-season form, it's great. I see you guys have gotten some serious reps in. Congratulations.

You guys make me want to hang out with Gritty.

 

[Better Call Sal]

Wow, this place is in mid-season form, it's great. I see you guys have gotten some serious reps in. Congratulations.

You guys make me want to hang out with Gritty.

Can I come? Gritty's awesome.

 

[theoptimist]

I wish we all got laid tonight

 

[Devils Dominion]

Can I come? Gritty's awesome.

Figures you're a Philly fan

 

[Better Call Sal]

Figures you're a Philly fan

Ya got me.

 

[My3Sons]

Greene as a third pairing defender is worse than Lovejoy as a third pairing defender. At least Lovejoy makes less.

The third pairing has to be kept clear for young developing defenders. Sending a $5 mil per guy out there to hide in sheltered minutes is the antithesis of good team management.

If your vets can’t havk it in the run of play they have to go. I’d rather play Smith on the third pair all season than Greene for one game.

I’m fine if Greene is somewhat below even in advanced stats as long as NJ isn’t getting killed with him out there against other team’s first and second lines. If he can’t do that then the team has to internally accept it and start working on plan B even if they don’t tell the fans.

If Mueller can somehow play reasonable defense against the other team’s best players and Butcher can play effective defense against other teams’ second. Lines then you can hide Greene but that assumes everything goes right with Butcher and Mueller.

 

[Cage Helmet]

I never for the piss of me could understand the hype over Santini. Hear me out, I don’t think he’s as bad as his fancy stats from last year, but I don’t see any top-2 potential and very little top-4 potential. I see him as a solid #5-#6 and that’s okay. It will keep him cost controlled, also.

 

[Bleedred]

Greene as a third pairing defender is worse than Lovejoy as a third pairing defender. At least Lovejoy makes less.

The third pairing has to be kept clear for young developing defenders. Sending a $5 mil per guy out there to hide in sheltered minutes is the antithesis of good team management. .

I just don't agree with this logic at all. It's like saying ''Zajac shouldn't be playing in the bottom 6 because he's a $6 million dollar (almost) player and has 3 years left'' or ''Schneider can't be the backup or 1b goalie, because he makes $6 million per year''.

I want the best guys in the best spots. So if Greene sucks, we need to keep him on the top pairing or middle pairing for the duration of his contract just because he's making over $5 million per? I mean, he's only got 2 years left, so it's not like we're paying him $5 million for the next 4-5 years to play on the bottom pairing.

Now you did say if the vets can't hack it, they have to go, but how do you make them go? Buy them out? Trade them? Who wants them? So I think we're better off playing him in the role that best suits him NOW and not worry about his salary, which was a salary that was given to him 4 years ago when he was still a pretty good player.

 

[devilsblood]

Greene as a third pairing defender is worse than Lovejoy as a third pairing defender. At least Lovejoy makes less.

The third pairing has to be kept clear for young developing defenders. Sending a $5 mil per guy out there to hide in sheltered minutes is the antithesis of good team management.

If your vets can’t havk it in the run of play they have to go. I’d rather play Smith on the third pair all season than Greene for one game.

I’m fine if Greene is somewhat below even in advanced stats as long as NJ isn’t getting killed with him out there against other team’s first and second lines. If he can’t do that then the team has to internally accept it and start working on plan B even if they don’t tell the fans.

If Mueller can somehow play reasonable defense against the other team’s best players and Butcher can play effective defense against other teams’ second. Lines then you can hide Greene but that assumes everything goes right with Butcher and Mueller.

Plan B has been in effect. Started with Mueller, then Butcher, then Smith.

But these guys are young players and you don't just throw young players to the wolves.

Now hopefully those guys have made strides and will start to handle tougher minutes. But until then Greene on the top pair will have to suffice.