Devils 2018-19 team discussion (news and notes) - part Xll

[Hischier and Hughes]

Let’s hope Keith doesn’t get blown up or he might get Bronx cheered like the last time Cory played. Cam Johnson might receive an even louder pop than Keith did relieving Cory or what Blackwood got relieving Keith last time.

This is gonna sound mean but...
Who cares? He deserves it at this point

 

[Bleedred]

One thing I just now thought of in relation to yesterday’s discussion about Kinkaid. I didn’t even think of this yesterday.

I said Kinkaid might be more like Scott Clemmensen than anything, but he also may be more like Johan Hedberg than anything.

Hedberg fluctuated wildly from year to year and actually had one of the best seasons in his career with the Devils in 11-12 at 38 years old. He had some miserable seasons before that, especially when he played lots and lots of games. He did have a randomly good season in 09-10 playing 47 games for Atlanta. Some might also forget that he was the Pittsburgh goalie during their entire 2001 run to the conference finals when they fell to us in 5 games.

 

[Bleedred]

This is gonna sound mean but...
Who cares? He deserves it at this point

I don’t really think he does, but wouldn’t blame people for booing either.

I don’t think he deserves it because I don’t really think it’s an effort issue with him. I think it’s a talent/ability issue at this point. He’s not good enough to play over 75% if your team’s games in the NHL and to this point he’s appeared in almost 77% if he plays tonight.

 

[Bleedred]

I was actually just thinking that, if there were such a bet, I'd put money down on the Devils' starter getting pulled tonight.

Didn’t realize I didn’t post this in the GDT. But I think we’re due for something a little better tonight. Even if it’s 2-0 shutout loss to Hutchinson. But we did get blown up by the Lightning all 3 times.

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

This is gonna sound mean but...
Who cares? He deserves it at this point

Ehh.. I'm generally against cynical cheers that antagonize our own players. These guys are professionals; they know when they're not performing to expectations. Even if they don't, they'll hear it from their coaches.

I don't think they need a double-down from the fans, frankly. Keith is a nice guy with a likable personality; I don't think he deserves being further embarrassed or shamed.

 

[billingtons ghost]

This is gonna sound mean but...
Who cares? He deserves it at this point

Your $6m per year for the next baziillion years, #1 starter who can't win a game in a year behind a terrible defense may deserve to be booed.

A $1.5m backup goalie who dragged your team into the playoffs kicking and screaming and is still playing behind one of the worst defenses in Devils history probably deserves a bit of pity.

 

[mtnet]

Yeah I was at that CBJ game when there were cheers for Blackwood coming in and though no one can control what the crowd does ("you suck" chants after a goal being one of the worst), I thought it reflected a little poorly on the fans given Keith's run last year.

I've been critical of our goaltenders too and I think we all have in the moment during games, but I could never be bothered to jeer our own club at the arena. I can't remember the last time I boo'd any team actually. I can get behind a righteous "ref you suck" chant or sing-songing certain opposing goalies though.

 

[New Jersey]

the whole f***ing organization needs to be booed right now.

time and money spent watching dogshit, i will voice my displeasure when i damn well please.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

I actually NEVER once gave my opinion on what I thought about his play in his own zone. I just think some of the criticism is over the top ridiculous that's all..

Damon Severson has been on the ice for a lot of goals there is no question about that...41 of them to be precise...In fact he is top 10 in the league for Dmen that have played over 500 minutes 7th worst..or bottom 10 how ever you look at it...

But I think it is a terrible matrix of how he is actually performing. Zach Werenski(9th) and Aaron Ekblad(8th) are right behind Severson having been on the ice for 1 fewer...Werenski is one of my favorite young defenders in the league....I think the GA/60 is a clouded picture at best.

EDIT: And just note...the 1980's defenders where mostly high flying like the forwards...The type of Dman you are thinking of didn't come into prominence until 1990's. Scott Stevens played Defense sometimes in Washington...I remember.

Both guys you mentionned are actual #1's for their respective teams where as Severson isn't.

Anyways... the criticism is there and rightfully so. He'll eventually go on LTIR with a sprained neck cause he's looking around left and right way too often instead of just being in the right spot.

 

[My3Sons]

Fans here may not like what they see from Damon...But the coaching staff seems to...He leads the team in 5v5 Ice time by a pretty healthy margin.

Damon Severson 18:33
Sami Vatanen 17:47
Andy Greene 16:57
Mirco Mueller 16:38
Egor Yakovlev 16:14
Taylor Hall 16:14
Will Butcher 15:27
Kyle Palmieri 14:34
Steven Santini 14:26
Nico Hischier 14:19
Travis Zajac 13:54
Ben Lovejoy 13:20
Blake Coleman 13:03
Marcus Johansson 12:59
Miles Wood 12:27
Jesper Bratt 12:19
Pavel Zacha 11:58
Blake Pietila 11:17
Stefan Noesen 11:13
John Quenneville 10:27
Joey Anderson 10:22
Eric Gryba 10:12
Brett Seney 10:11
Drew Stafford 10:09
Jean-Sebastien Dea 9:51
Brian Boyle 8:51
Kevin Rooney 7:46
Kurtis Gabriel 5:50
Michael McLeod 5:32

Wasn’t he still being healthy scratches last season? If so he has obviously stepped up in their eyes this season regardless of the results on the ice.

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

Yeah I was at that CBJ game when there were cheers for Blackwood coming in and though no one can control what the crowd does ("you suck" chants after a goal being one of the worst), I thought it reflected a little poorly on the fans given Keith's run last year.

I've been critical of our goaltenders too and I think we all have in the moment during games, but I could never be bothered to jeer our own club at the arena. I can't remember the last time I boo'd any team actually. I can get behind a righteous "ref you suck" chant or sing-songing certain opposing goalies though.

I booed my balls off after the Game 5 no-show against the Flyers, which eliminated us in 2009-10.

Haven't booed the Devils since then. It takes a lot for me to antagonize our own.

 

[My3Sons]

I go away for one day and this board is talking about trading hall.

C’mon now, you know you are over simplifying it. The discussion presumes Hall wants out. I don’t recall anyone saying the team would be better off without Hall or that the team should trade him because he returning assets would make for a better team.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Fans are booing the on ice product, not the person for who they are

Paying customers have every right to boo for whatever reason. Philadelphia fans boo everything yet keep showing up and rooting for the team - one game theyre booed the next theyre cheered

They are fanatics afterall

 

[mtnet]

I booed my balls off after the Game 5 no-show against the Flyers, which eliminated us in 2009-10.

Haven't booed the Devils since then. It takes a lot for me to antagonize our own.

Yeah I will say some games I watch from home and I'm like, ok they were asking for that when the crowd turns on them. By comparison to some teams our fans have been relatively tame in that regard.

I watch some philly games and boy are those some entitled and impatient f***ers. Their team is doing poorly yes but man they turn on the team in-game so quick it's comical, doesn't take much.

 

[Wingman77]

I booed my balls off after the Game 5 no-show against the Flyers, which eliminated us in 2009-10.

Haven't booed the Devils since then. It takes a lot for me to antagonize our own.

Brian Rolston backing out of the corner when Chris Pronger was zoning in sums that series up pretty well.

 

[NJDevs26]

They’re also embracing the tank it appears. I guess they don’t want to bring McLeod, Studenic or Gignac into this **** show

Who cares about a forward playing on a bad team? If anything that's when they should be getting pressure-free minutes. The only guy they really could 'protect' is Blackwood, but I've already gone through that in the Blackwood thread.

Your $6m per year for the next baziillion years, #1 starter who can't win a game in a year behind a terrible defense may deserve to be booed.

A $1.5m backup goalie who dragged your team into the playoffs kicking and screaming and is still playing behind one of the worst defenses in Devils history probably deserves a bit of pity.

Well I'm kind of with you on this...I couldn't really blame the crowd at all for destroying Cory, but they were a bit too quick abandoning KK a month ago. Now he's burned through his goodwill (for lack of a better word) with sustained bad play since, so I'd have less sympathy for him now than I did early December.

 

[Monsieur Verdoux]

“It’s possible,” allowed Dreger. “But you’re right. If I look at the Eastern Conference, I mean there are teams that we haven’t heard from yet. Toronto plays the New Jersey Devils tonight. I’m getting the sense the New Jersey Devils are real close to moving out some pieces.

“Now, we’re not talking about the big boys like Hall or Palmieri or anything like that. New Jersey is a team that - Ray Shero is a veteran, experienced general manager. Maybe he wants to dip into the market, or take advantage of someone else who wants to dip into the market early.

“Because the ask on good players - specifically defensemen - is always the same this time of year. If you’re talking about a Top-4 defenseman, you’re talking about a first-round draft pick, you’re talking about a good prospect, and then you’re talking about an NHL roster player.

“That doesn’t seem to change until somebody dives into the market until someone either overpays or underpays, and then I think people have to kind of embrace reality after that.”

 

[haak84]

Your $6m per year for the next baziillion years, #1 starter who can't win a game in a year behind a terrible defense may deserve to be booed.

A $1.5m backup goalie who dragged your team into the playoffs kicking and screaming and is still playing behind one of the worst defenses in Devils history probably deserves a bit of pity.

Ding ding ding. We have a winner

 

[NJDevils17]

If we’re close to moving players I would venture to guess Boyle would be a hot commodity around the league.

 

[Bleedred]

the whole ****ing organization needs to be booed right now.

time and money spent watching dog****, i will voice my displeasure when i damn well please.

I do agree that as a paying customer, we should be entitled to boo whoever we want. As long as it's within reason and we're not threatening the guy or starting to bring his wife/girlfriend or kids into it. When you start doing that, that's when it goes off limits. It doesn't mean I'll necessarily participate in it, but I do think as paying customers, it's not off limits.

 

[Bleedred]

Your $6m per year for the next baziillion years, #1 starter who can't win a game in a year behind a terrible defense may deserve to be booed.

A $1.5m backup goalie who dragged your team into the playoffs kicking and screaming and is still playing behind one of the worst defenses in Devils history probably deserves a bit of pity.

Ding ding ding. We have a winner

But see, I think it's the same thing with him. He also sucks nowadays due to limited ability. So to really crucify him in person at games would be to me like booing a disabled person, because I truly believe that he has physical impairments that make him unable to play anymore, at least at a consistently competent level. I know @billingtons ghost disagrees and thinks it's because the defense has ruined him, but he played great behind some bad defenses here, especially that 14-15 team.

I've been his biggest critic on here, after being one of his biggest supporters for years, so I've done my share of bitching about him, but I don't think he necessarily deserves any more vocal backlash than Kinkaid does, due to his poor play also being because of lack of ability (and lack of mobility) and not lack of effort. He probably deserved to be booed more during 16-17, when we didn't know that he was physically breaking down. Now it's become a trend and it's pretty clearly him being broken down physically.

 

[haak84]

But see, I think it's the same thing with him. He also sucks nowadays due to limited ability. So to really crucify him in person at games would be to me like booing a disabled person, because I truly believe that he has physical impairments that make him unable to play anymore, at least at a consistently competent level. I know @billingtons ghost disagrees and thinks it's because the defense has ruined him, but he played great behind some bad defenses here, especially that 14-15 team.

I've been his biggest critic on here, after being one of his biggest supporters for years, so I've done my share of *****ing about him, but I don't think he necessarily deserves any more vocal backlash than Kinkaid does, due to his poor play also being because of lack of ability (and lack of mobility) and not lack of effort. He probably deserved to be booed more during 16-17, when we didn't know that he was physically breaking down. Now it's become a trend and it's pretty clearly him being broken down physically.

How bout don’t boo either.

 

[billingtons ghost]

But see, I think it's the same thing with him. He also sucks nowadays due to limited ability. So to really crucify him in person at games would be to me like booing a disabled person, because I truly believe that he has physical impairments that make him unable to play anymore, at least at a consistently competent level. I know @billingtons ghost disagrees and thinks it's because the defense has ruined him, but he played great behind some bad defenses here, especially that 14-15 team.

I've been his biggest critic on here, after being one of his biggest supporters for years, so I've done my share of *****ing about him, but I don't think he necessarily deserves any more vocal backlash than Kinkaid does, due to his poor play also being because of lack of ability (and lack of mobility) and not lack of effort. He probably deserved to be booed more during 16-17, when we didn't know that he was physically breaking down. Now it's become a trend and it's pretty clearly him being broken down physically.

Yeah, we disagree, Bleed - and that's ok... I wish we could tell if the guy is really physically beat, or if it was a mercy killing because of his lack of confidence. I look at the WPG game and I see a pretty good goalie for the first part of the game making some great saves like he did in 2014 - but with the same rebound control issues he had from the start. He got beaten only by tap-ins and no-chancers.

Then, that last goal, that one that looked terrible - that was a classic capitulation by a goalie. Unfortunately, I can say I've been there - when you've gotten diced up, your team isn't doing anything right, (in fact they are scoring on you) and you cannot even trust your legs anymore. It's the 'I have no idea if I should stack the pads, challenge the shot or play deep, splits, barrel-roll, 1/2 butterfly or full-butterfly for this next shot, because it won't matter, I'm going to get beat.' It's a sucky place to be. That was a classic flail by a goalie who's confidence is shot.

You're starting to see the same kind of capitulation goals from KK at the end of games.

 

[Bleedred]

How bout don’t boo either.

I think that's fair. I'm not sure I would, but I don't fault paying customers for doing so.

I think if I were in attendance for the Vegas game, I would have roared for the goalie change after Cory let in that horrific third goal. And if I were in attendance for that Columbus game, I probably would have roared for the goalie change after that really bad Panarin goal.

Now that doesn't mean I would have booed either of our guy's off the ice.

 

[MichaelJ]

“It’s possible,” allowed Dreger. “But you’re right. If I look at the Eastern Conference, I mean there are teams that we haven’t heard from yet. Toronto plays the New Jersey Devils tonight. I’m getting the sense the New Jersey Devils are real close to moving out some pieces.



“Because the ask on good players - specifically defensemen - is always the same this time of year. If you’re talking about a Top-4 defenseman, you’re talking about a first-round draft pick, you’re talking about a good prospect, and then you’re talking about an NHL roster player.”

Test the market for Vatanen. We suck anyway, he might be shopped in the offseason, and I don’t know that he’ll be signed long-term. That type of return could be leveraged on draft day (with other pieces added) to bring in a real top pairing defenseman.