Discussion in 'New Jersey Devils' started by StvBroDan, Jan 5, 2019.
This is gonna sound mean but...
Who cares? He deserves it at this point
One thing I just now thought of in relation to yesterday’s discussion about Kinkaid. I didn’t even think of this yesterday.
I said Kinkaid might be more like Scott Clemmensen than anything, but he also may be more like Johan Hedberg than anything.
Hedberg fluctuated wildly from year to year and actually had one of the best seasons in his career with the Devils in 11-12 at 38 years old. He had some miserable seasons before that, especially when he played lots and lots of games. He did have a randomly good season in 09-10 playing 47 games for Atlanta. Some might also forget that he was the Pittsburgh goalie during their entire 2001 run to the conference finals when they fell to us in 5 games.
I don’t really think he does, but wouldn’t blame people for booing either.
I don’t think he deserves it because I don’t really think it’s an effort issue with him. I think it’s a talent/ability issue at this point. He’s not good enough to play over 75% if your team’s games in the NHL and to this point he’s appeared in almost 77% if he plays tonight.
Didn’t realize I didn’t post this in the GDT. But I think we’re due for something a little better tonight. Even if it’s 2-0 shutout loss to Hutchinson. But we did get blown up by the Lightning all 3 times.
Ehh.. I'm generally against cynical cheers that antagonize our own players. These guys are professionals; they know when they're not performing to expectations. Even if they don't, they'll hear it from their coaches.
I don't think they need a double-down from the fans, frankly. Keith is a nice guy with a likable personality; I don't think he deserves being further embarrassed or shamed.
Your $6m per year for the next baziillion years, #1 starter who can't win a game in a year behind a terrible defense may deserve to be booed.
A $1.5m backup goalie who dragged your team into the playoffs kicking and screaming and is still playing behind one of the worst defenses in Devils history probably deserves a bit of pity.
Yeah I was at that CBJ game when there were cheers for Blackwood coming in and though no one can control what the crowd does ("you suck" chants after a goal being one of the worst), I thought it reflected a little poorly on the fans given Keith's run last year.
I've been critical of our goaltenders too and I think we all have in the moment during games, but I could never be bothered to jeer our own club at the arena. I can't remember the last time I boo'd any team actually. I can get behind a righteous "ref you suck" chant or sing-songing certain opposing goalies though.
the whole ****ing organization needs to be booed right now.
time and money spent watching dog****, i will voice my displeasure when i damn well please.
Both guys you mentionned are actual #1's for their respective teams where as Severson isn't.
Anyways... the criticism is there and rightfully so. He'll eventually go on LTIR with a sprained neck cause he's looking around left and right way too often instead of just being in the right spot.
Wasn’t he still being healthy scratches last season? If so he has obviously stepped up in their eyes this season regardless of the results on the ice.
I booed my balls off after the Game 5 no-show against the Flyers, which eliminated us in 2009-10.
Haven't booed the Devils since then. It takes a lot for me to antagonize our own.
C’mon now, you know you are over simplifying it. The discussion presumes Hall wants out. I don’t recall anyone saying the team would be better off without Hall or that the team should trade him because he returning assets would make for a better team.
Fans are booing the on ice product, not the person for who they are
Paying customers have every right to boo for whatever reason. Philadelphia fans boo everything yet keep showing up and rooting for the team - one game theyre booed the next theyre cheered
They are fanatics afterall
Yeah I will say some games I watch from home and I'm like, ok they were asking for that when the crowd turns on them. By comparison to some teams our fans have been relatively tame in that regard.
I watch some philly games and boy are those some entitled and impatient ****ers. Their team is doing poorly yes but man they turn on the team in-game so quick it's comical, doesn't take much.
Brian Rolston backing out of the corner when Chris Pronger was zoning in sums that series up pretty well.
Who cares about a forward playing on a bad team? If anything that's when they should be getting pressure-free minutes. The only guy they really could 'protect' is Blackwood, but I've already gone through that in the Blackwood thread.
Well I'm kind of with you on this...I couldn't really blame the crowd at all for destroying Cory, but they were a bit too quick abandoning KK a month ago. Now he's burned through his goodwill (for lack of a better word) with sustained bad play since, so I'd have less sympathy for him now than I did early December.
“It’s possible,” allowed Dreger. “But you’re right. If I look at the Eastern Conference, I mean there are teams that we haven’t heard from yet. Toronto plays the New Jersey Devils tonight. I’m getting the sense the New Jersey Devils are real close to moving out some pieces.
“Now, we’re not talking about the big boys like Hall or Palmieri or anything like that. New Jersey is a team that - Ray Shero is a veteran, experienced general manager. Maybe he wants to dip into the market, or take advantage of someone else who wants to dip into the market early.
“Because the ask on good players - specifically defensemen - is always the same this time of year. If you’re talking about a Top-4 defenseman, you’re talking about a first-round draft pick, you’re talking about a good prospect, and then you’re talking about an NHL roster player.
“That doesn’t seem to change until somebody dives into the market until someone either overpays or underpays, and then I think people have to kind of embrace reality after that.”
Ding ding ding. We have a winner
If we’re close to moving players I would venture to guess Boyle would be a hot commodity around the league.
I do agree that as a paying customer, we should be entitled to boo whoever we want. As long as it's within reason and we're not threatening the guy or starting to bring his wife/girlfriend or kids into it. When you start doing that, that's when it goes off limits. It doesn't mean I'll necessarily participate in it, but I do think as paying customers, it's not off limits.
But see, I think it's the same thing with him. He also sucks nowadays due to limited ability. So to really crucify him in person at games would be to me like booing a disabled person, because I truly believe that he has physical impairments that make him unable to play anymore, at least at a consistently competent level. I know @billingtons ghost disagrees and thinks it's because the defense has ruined him, but he played great behind some bad defenses here, especially that 14-15 team.
I've been his biggest critic on here, after being one of his biggest supporters for years, so I've done my share of *****ing about him, but I don't think he necessarily deserves any more vocal backlash than Kinkaid does, due to his poor play also being because of lack of ability (and lack of mobility) and not lack of effort. He probably deserved to be booed more during 16-17, when we didn't know that he was physically breaking down. Now it's become a trend and it's pretty clearly him being broken down physically.
How bout don’t boo either.
Yeah, we disagree, Bleed - and that's ok... I wish we could tell if the guy is really physically beat, or if it was a mercy killing because of his lack of confidence. I look at the WPG game and I see a pretty good goalie for the first part of the game making some great saves like he did in 2014 - but with the same rebound control issues he had from the start. He got beaten only by tap-ins and no-chancers.
Then, that last goal, that one that looked terrible - that was a classic capitulation by a goalie. Unfortunately, I can say I've been there - when you've gotten diced up, your team isn't doing anything right, (in fact they are scoring on you) and you cannot even trust your legs anymore. It's the 'I have no idea if I should stack the pads, challenge the shot or play deep, splits, barrel-roll, 1/2 butterfly or full-butterfly for this next shot, because it won't matter, I'm going to get beat.' It's a sucky place to be. That was a classic flail by a goalie who's confidence is shot.
You're starting to see the same kind of capitulation goals from KK at the end of games.
I think that's fair. I'm not sure I would, but I don't fault paying customers for doing so.
I think if I were in attendance for the Vegas game, I would have roared for the goalie change after Cory let in that horrific third goal. And if I were in attendance for that Columbus game, I probably would have roared for the goalie change after that really bad Panarin goal.
Now that doesn't mean I would have booed either of our guy's off the ice.
Test the market for Vatanen. We suck anyway, he might be shopped in the offseason, and I don’t know that he’ll be signed long-term. That type of return could be leveraged on draft day (with other pieces added) to bring in a real top pairing defenseman.
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