Devils 2017-18 team discussion (player news and notes) III

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NjDevsRR

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Honestly without looking at it with homer glasses, we are a great fit for JT.

I think he and Hall would coincide very well together.
Hall Tavares Bratt

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Emperoreddy

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Honestly without looking at it with homer glasses, we are a great fit for JT.

I think he and Hall would coincide very well together.

That was my thoughts and i really don’t think it is a homer statement to say that.

A one-two punch of JT-Nico has the potential to be one of the best offenses in the league for a very long time. Plus we do have a lot of talented wingers, with Hall at the top of the list, to fill it all out.

How we address that hole in D would still be a major question mark, and eventually the cap absolutely would start to become a issue, but we could contend in a hurry if he crossed the river.
 

Bleedred

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The irony is we got rid of Gionta partly cause of Nicklas Bergfors lol...or rather we didn't really get rid of him it's just Montreal overpaid dramatically for him. I think it was even you that said at one point Lou made Gionta an offer but when told of the Montreal contract said Brian had to take it for his family. But after Bergfors had a good first twenty games or so he tailed off then got traded for the Russian drama king. Plus I think we re-signed Rolston that offseason which didn't thrill me, we essentially replaced Gionta with Rolston tbh. Or it was the next offseason.
I don't think Lou ever made an offer to Gionta, but Gionta wanted to stay. He never received an offer from Lou (from what I remember), then walked. Lou did this with a lot of players back in the day, especially for monetary reasons in the pre-cap days, with Mogilny, Claude Lemieux 2.0, among others. We were fairly close to the cap in 2009, if I recall correctly and not re-signing Gionta gave us cap flexibility. I don't think we let him to give Bergfors a chance, but it just so ended up that Bergfors replaced his spot and that we needed to get Bergfors in there, as I believe he was waiver eligible starting that year. It's just like when we replaced Mogilny with Salomonsson (or whatever the old rookie's name was) back in 2001.

To me, I'd move on from Moore for monetary/cap reasons, but more because we need to upgrade the D and we can't do that without letting him go, unless we buyout Greene (I don't think we should do that right now) or trade off one of the younger guys and use their spot to upgrade the D.

I'm not convinced that Moore is as good as he's been this year either.
 

NJDevils17

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The thought of Tavares, Hall and Hischier spearheading the offense is tantilizing. That would probably put us in the top 3-5 offenses in the league.
 

Bleedred

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Actually, I think we got rid of him cause we got an offer we couldn't refuse from a team struggling with injuries... a top 4 D-man for an inconsistent 2nd/3rd line wing/center.
I was the first person on this forum (I believe?) that was very adamant that Shero was going to trade Henrique, just to avoid giving him a new deal that wouldn't have made sense from a cap/money standpoint, nor from a production standpoint. I never wanted to speculate who it could have been for, but I figured it would be at the 2018 draft, much like when he parted ways with Jordan Staal in Pittsburgh at the 2012 draft, a year before he was a UFA and his contract was to expire.

We may have kept Henrique for the rest of this year, but I don't think he was in the cards past this year.
 

Bleedred

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it is hate tho. people are so invested in their views that they wont drop it even if a player turns it around. in turn they want to do anything to make themselves seem right.... i.e. cutting moore loose.

im am not for cutting greene i am just saying there is wiggle room here. we are crossing into Feb. of 2018. there is still a trade deadline and FA to go. maybe this isnt a lou management team but i still see a move coming despite the sami/rico trade. maybe it will involve a D man.

stop with the fallacies comparing henrique to moore. its apples and oranges.

none of us are gms and this is all speculation. i would just rather see us keep moore and make a move so he fits. its really not out of the realm of possibility. maybe in the end you are right and moore is gone. i couldnt care less. this is just my two cents and i think moore has been great and is a guy you look to resign at this point. he is playing top minutes and doing well. so lets just let him go! absurd.
What I don't agree with is the assessment that the player has ''Turned it around''. We don't know if he's turned it around, as he's only been good for a little more than a half a season. This could just be an aberration. You need more than one year to say if a player has turned it around or if they're declining, etc.

To know if he's turned it around, we have to re-sign him and if this year was anomaly? We're stuck. That's a gamble right there. If he goes back to pre 17-18 Moore next year, then we have a poor defenseman signed for multiple years and we have Greene that's another year older and we have a defense that's worse than it is now.

And I don't wanna hear anybody who wants Moore re-signed to complain that ''Our D sucks! We need to fix it! Why didn't Shero fix it? What are we gonna do? He didn't do anything to fix the D this offseason!'' if we do sign Moore. Because if we sign Moore, we're probably not signing/trading for anybody else to upgrade it.
 

Oneiro

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I don't think that finding a veteran defenseman who is objectively better than both Moore and Lovejoy is a tall order. We should move on from those two.

Looking ahead, I could stomach a patchwork defense (i.e. no big-time top pairing guy) if we signed Tavares.
 

AveryQuietMan

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What I don't agree with is the assessment that the player has ''Turned it around''. We don't know if he's turned it around, as he's only been good for a little more than a half a season. This could just be an aberration. You need more than one year to say if a player has turned it around or if they're declining, etc.

To know if he's turned it around, we have to re-sign him and if this year was anomaly? We're stuck.

And I don't wanna hear anybody who wants Moore re-signed to complain that ''Our D sucks! We need to fix it! Why didn't Shero fix it? What are we gonna do? He didn't do anything to fix the D this offseason!'' if we do sign Moore. Because if we sign Moore, we're probably not signing/trading for anybody else to upgrade it.

Well i thought some of the criticism was off base in the first place regarding the past 2 years. This is the guy i thought we wouldve seen in the past. Now we are seeing it and i dont think its an aberration. IMO hes just found his game.

So fine, if we dont re-sign him and he goes elsewhere and proves he's turned it around we have egg on our face. This is not an easy situation. It's a crossroads. Personally im in the keep him camp. Might be alone in that camp but im in it.

Dont worry you wont see me doing that. Its not because you said that. I have faith in the management more than myself. If we let moore go and the d sucks is it possible i will say 'see shouldve signed moore'? Absolutely. I still wont destroy the management for not doing it. I have my views and i will stay true to them. Im just a guy giving my opinion and would like to continue to do so if you guys will have me.

i said I alot there..... i get your point bleed. im just on the other side of the aisle for this one. Would love to have a brew with you. Something tells me it would be a good time.
 
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My3Sons

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I’m skeptical Shero traded multiple picks for Mueller to not give him a real shot at a spot. I speculate that Butcher took the spot earmarked for Mueller. The choice to re-sign Moore probably hinges on whether the team believes Mueller can play in that spot. I don’t see re-signing Moore as any sort of improvement. The defense has struggled at times with him playing as well as he ever has. How much better is he going to get in his own end? Maybe he has additional defensive game to unveil but if he commands a three year deal do you want to roll that dice? As for a current trade I’m not sure that anything other than a real 2C is worth the cost of a young player or premium draft pick. At the end of the day I’d rather have Santini at 3RD over Lovelessjoyless and I’m skeptical that a package of JQ and Santini brings back a needle moving forward or defender. I’d just as soon trade Moore for whatever draft pick he returns and play Mueller and then play out the season. If a team has a decent but overpaid player whose deal ends next season maybe I’d consider moving Clowe’s deal and Gibbons or STAFFORD or Hayes to suggest to the current roster that the team will spend money to add a player but I still don’t see the valuable or expendable assets to make a push for a real upgrade.
 

AveryQuietMan

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I’m skeptical Shero traded multiple picks for Mueller to not give him a real shot at a spot. I speculate that Butcher took the spot earmarked for Mueller. The choice to re-sign Moore probably hinges on whether the team believes Mueller can play in that spot. I don’t see re-signing Moore as any sort of improvement. The defense has struggled at times with him playing as well as he ever has. How much better is he going to get in his own end? Maybe he has additional defensive game to unveil but if he commands a three year deal do you want to roll that dice? As for a current trade I’m not sure that anything other than a real 2C is worth the cost of a young player or premium draft pick. At the end of the day I’d rather have Santini at 3RD over Lovelessjoyless and I’m skeptical that a package of JQ and Santini brings back a needle moving forward or defender. I’d just as soon trade Moore for whatever draft pick he returns and play Mueller and then play out the season. If a team has a decent but overpaid player whose deal ends next season maybe I’d consider moving Clowe’s deal and Gibbons or STAFFORD or Hayes to suggest to the current roster that the team will spend money to add a player but I still don’t see the valuable or expendable assets to make a push for a real upgrade.

If moore is now trade bait so be it. We havent seen enough of mueller to even make a judgement call.

My opinion on moore is a judgement call as much as anyone else. We might have to ride out the season and let the chips fall. for all i/we know mueller comes in a blows moore out of the picture. then throw in santini and the prospects and we have options, not saying only for trades... just options. also clowe comes off the books this year.

looking at things before the deadline..... all things considered we are in a really good spot with a bunch of assets despite being a bottom 5 cap team. shero is clearly a type A personality. crazy what he has built in minutes using the hockey timeframe.
 
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Bleedred

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Resting up for us tomorrow :(
Why is that anything to be scared of? Guy blows, but I guess he's due for a good game.

He hasn't even been good against us in his career. We scored 3 goals on him last time, but lost because we allowed 5 or 6 goals.
 

MichaelJ

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That was my thoughts and i really don’t think it is a homer statement to say that.

A one-two punch of JT-Nico has the potential to be one of the best offenses in the league for a very long time. Plus we do have a lot of talented wingers, with Hall at the top of the list, to fill it all out.

How we address that hole in D would still be a major question mark, and eventually the cap absolutely would start to become a issue, but we could contend in a hurry if he crossed the river.

If the Devils add Tavares for free they’ll have a deep forward group. Adding him legitimizes the Devils as a contender and I’d bet we’d become an attractive destination for free agents. One way or another Ray would be able to fill out the defense.
 
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