Devils 1st round draft pick forfeiture

Discussion in 'Fugu's Business of Hockey Forum' started by TaiMaiShu, Oct 19, 2013.

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  1. TaiMaiShu

    TaiMaiShu Registered User

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    In spite of what looks like gloomy days ahead for the Devils, can any CBA junkie confirm whether the pick that needs to be forfeited has to be theirs'?


    For instance, what if they traded their pick to a team for another first in 2014 along with a first in 2015?
     
  2. Kane One

    Kane One Registered User

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    It has to be theirs and the league would veto any trade that involves their first round pick.
     
  3. jumptheshark

    jumptheshark Rebooting myself Sponsor

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    clearly has to be theres

    I have it from a good source, the devils in the new year are going to try petition the league to reverse the decision based upon the fact Kovey is gone
     
  4. TaiMaiShu

    TaiMaiShu Registered User

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    Thanks. I love Lou but his stubbornness has most of the fans on edge. What a saga and how badly this all turned out. Vanderbeek really forced his hand too much and may have really hurt this franchise.
     
  5. Drury_Sakic

    Drury_Sakic Registered User

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    I hope to god the NHL rejects any requests outright. Sucks that NJ lost Kovy, and I feel for the fans...but the stupidity/arrogance of Lou not giving that pick up the year they lost in the Cup Finals deserves the karma police stepping in and making an example of the Devils.

    If they some how get out of the punishment..... :shakehead
     
  6. TaiMaiShu

    TaiMaiShu Registered User

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    How in the world does this have anything to do with karma? This is easily Lou's biggest gaffe and is pure asinine but where are you coming from. There are still examples of cap circumvention and ridiculous that such a penalty was passed to set an example. The Flyers for years have buried guys and played the LTIR game to stay under the cap, for example, and will the league have the balls to do anything about it? No.
     
  7. Alklha

    Alklha Moderator

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    As the others have said, it has to be their selection. This is the same with all punishments and offersheets, it can only be the draft picks of that team.

    Honestly, if they appealed using that argument then they deserve a further punishment. Whether Kovalchuk is there or not has got nothing to do with anything. The League punished them for the contract they rejected, Kovalchuk could have signed with another team as an UFA and the Devils would still have been punished.

    Using this logic... the Blues signed Stevens to an illegal offersheet which the Devils matched. The Blues never got Stevens, so they shouldn't have been punished?
     
  8. Sonny Lamateena

    Sonny Lamateena Registered User

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    Burying players in the minors and the LTIR are loopholes in the old CBA and I have no problem with them, however when Daniel Alfredsson publicly admitted that he and Senators signed a contract with the intention of circumventing the cap I think both he and the Sens should of been punished. Since the NHL let it slide I see no reason why the Devils shouldn't be able to retain their pick.
     
  9. Alklha

    Alklha Moderator

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    What can the NHL do in that situation? He played the entire contract and the Senators wanted to bring him back. Alfredsson says one thing and the Senators come back and say that they wanted him to play his entire contract and that because the contract was a 35+ contract there was no way they were going to avoid the entire $ value of that contract counting towards the cap. Even removing the third year of the contract, the Senators would still have been cap compliant in each of the first 2 years with an increased Alfredsson caphit.

    So the Senators would deny it and can produce a lot supplemental stuff that goes against the logic of what Alfredsson was saying. The League has what Alfredsson said, and he will now likely be claiming as a misunderstanding because they are going after him.

    There is no logical reason for the NHL to go after that unless they want to look stupid.
     
  10. Wizeman*

    Wizeman* Guest

    NJ has no right to be let off the hook. Kovalchuk leaving has nothing to do with the act. The act was the signing of the contract which was done years ago.
     
  11. Sonny Lamateena

    Sonny Lamateena Registered User

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    The chose to not even investigate the situation, if a penalty for one team attempting to circumvent the cap costs $3 million, a 3rd and 1st round pick, isn't a confession that a team and player attempted to do it worth looking into? Their was nothing in it for Alfredsson to lie, he has a new contract on a new team, he doesn't live in Ottawa any more, from his pov all he was doing was putting himself at risk of being fined.
     
  12. Riptide

    Riptide Registered User Sponsor

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    How can they investigate it? It's Alfies word against the Sens. Alfie can say he didn't honestly expect to play out the full contract (4 or 5 years), while the Sens will say they fully expected him to, and will point to the fact that he did... ?

    I agree completely the intent was there... but it's not really something the NHL can go after.
     
  13. Alklha

    Alklha Moderator

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    How does anyone know for sure what they did? They could have called Alfredsson, at which point he likely claims it was a misunderstanding/miscommunication/whatever and are they now meant to do what? Try to prove a 3 year old+ conversation happened with both parties denying it and the circumstantial evidence also not really supporting their theory?

    Not saying the intent to manipulate the cap wasn't there. But while the burden of proof isn't as high as in a court of law they have to have something more than an off-the-cuff remark that you know would be changed the moment it was challenged.
     
  14. Drury_Sakic

    Drury_Sakic Registered User

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    I have thought all along that Lou has never intended to give up that pick, that he thought/knew he would have some way to get out of it if he just kept delaying the penalty. Using the pick that year re-enforced that. Lou is the type of GM that simply does not make mistakes like that, using what almost certainly what was going to be the Devils worst 1st round pick in the window to actually pick someone rather than forfeiting it.

    I don't think he knew Kovy was going to leave like this or anything...I just think he thought he could game his way out of it somehow.
     
  15. Sonny Lamateena

    Sonny Lamateena Registered User

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    The same way the NHL investigates anything. Speak to anyone who was involved in the negotiations on either side, take everyone's stories and make a decision. I'm sure the Blues didn't admit to tampering when they signed Scott Stevens and the NHL still found them guilty.
     
  16. Stammer Time*

    Stammer Time* Sons of Pirates

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    I know it's been specified the Devils must give up their own first but I always found it interesting that the Maple Leafs were able to give up Carolina's 4th in 2009 for the Frogren contract.
     
  17. Jtown

    Jtown Registered User

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    I hope the NHL reinstates their pick especially with Kovy leaving.
     
  18. Scottyk9

    Scottyk9 I love to hockey.

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    Seeing as Alfie admitted that he and the Sens engaged in blatant circumvention and nothing came of it kinda pisses me off but I'm done worrying about it. Is what it is as this point.
     
  19. Kane One

    Kane One Registered User

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    Daly already said they aren't because those are two completely different things. Kovalchuk retiring doesn't mean the Devils didn't circumvent the cap.
     
  20. TheDevilMadeMe

    TheDevilMadeMe Registered User

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    Nitpick: They were punished for attempted cap circumvention. They didn't actually circumvent the cap because the NHL rejected the contract.
     
  21. Brooklanders*

    Brooklanders* Registered User

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    I for one am tired of NHL teams such as the Devils and Flyers making a mockery of the league. An example is what needed to be set. No more wrist slaps!!!!
    Lou is an arrogant little rat.
     
  22. 2525

    2525 R.I.P. Fugu

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    Not a fan of the Devils and was in the minority thinking it wasn't cap circumvention and 100% disagreed with the penalty mainly because they didn't circumvent anything as the league disallowed the contract.

    That said, the league made their decision and has to enforce it.
     
  23. njdevsfn95

    njdevsfn95 Help JJJ, Sprite.

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    You dont think the league may want to appease new BILLIONAIRE owners that bought the franchise?

    In Lou's 1st year as GM, he brought the league to court after the Schoenfeld-Koharski-Donutgate.

    Now he has the backup of the lawyers of BILLIONAIRE owners.

    lol total longshot but those are my thoughts
     
  24. mavis

    mavis Registered User

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    It's actually very lucky for NJD that Kovalchuk left. Could you imagine if he left somewhere between 2018-2020 like they had likely planned at the time of circumventing the contract? It would be what, $6M per year for 5 years of dead cap space?

    NJD and Kovy circumvented the cap, and now they circumvented the penalty for circumventing the cap by having Kovy leave the league. It's unfortunate for the NHL that it lost one of its best players, why let NJD off the hook for what they did?
     
  25. IME

    IME Registered User

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    Circumvention includes the attempt and/or intent to circumvent. It was enough that they made a significant effort to circumvent
     

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