Prospect Info: Devellano comments on Anthony Mantha

newfy

Registered User
Jul 28, 2010
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I think one thing to remember to is that big guys usually take longer to develop. At a younger age you get that size advantage and you lose some of that in the pros. Mantha wasnt an early bloomer that has had a lot of time to grow into his body. Add some weight to that frame to help you battle over the summer and come into camp with something to prove.
 

Run the Jewels

Make Detroit Great Again
Jun 22, 2006
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What exactly do you do over the summer that makes you move your feet more during a game? I get that increased strength and quickness will obviously help, but I think this is more about internal motivation than anything physical. Then again, if he played with a stronger motor, he wouldn't have been available at 20.

Nah, if you are in good shape then you don't tire as easily. As soon as you tire your entire body starts to fail you. In addition to weight training he probably needs to do lots of conditioning work. He played a ton of hockey last year with the playoffs and world junior championships. Hopefully once the Griffins season ends he'll take some time to recover and then work with a really good trainer to get into the best shape possible.

It won't get solved in one summer, but if he can start from a good point this summer and then build on that summer after summer after summer he'll be in a much better place. Guys used to see this in action all the time when Lidstrom and Chelios would hit the exercise bikes to maintain their conditioning.
 

Heaton

Moderator
Feb 13, 2004
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Auburn Hills
Out of curiosity, what is everyone's issue with players being called out in the media? Airing your dirty laundry in public can sometimes be in poor taste, but other times it does it's job. Mantha didn't meet expectations this year for a few reasons, but he had extremely high expectations after lighting up juniors. What other player was that hyped going to GR?

I love seeing this stuff I have no issues with players being called out. Unless for some reason you think nothing was ever said to Mantha in private. The timing seems strange, though.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
36,201
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Out of curiosity, what is everyone's issue with players being called out in the media? Airing your dirty laundry in public can sometimes be in poor taste, but other times it does it's job. Mantha didn't meet expectations this year for a few reasons, but he had extremely high expectations after lighting up juniors. What other player was that hyped going to GR?

I love seeing this stuff I have no issues with players being called out. Unless for some reason you think nothing was ever said to Mantha in private. The timing seems strange, though.

I don't really mind it with vets or established guys at all, but don't really love it with a 20 year old kid in the midst of a rough year.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
36,201
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Are you afraid this is going to scar him or something?

No, I'm just not a huge fan or anything. It's not the end of the world. Just would have preferred to keep that in-house in this case.
 

Bench

3 is a good start
Aug 14, 2011
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No, I'm just not a huge fan or anything. It's not the end of the world. Just would have preferred to keep that in-house in this case.

I think it's funny the first time we get something honest and real out of the Detroit brass and media, people want them to tone it down.

Not picking on you in particular, maybe you have a point in this instance. I don't really have much of an opinion on it.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
36,201
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I think it's funny the first time we get something honest and real out of the Detroit brass and media, people want them to tone it down.

Not picking on you in particular, maybe you have a point in this instance. I don't really have much of an opinion on it.

I hear you. I don't know, I just think a 20 year old responds to this differently than a guy who is established.

But Mantha seems to be taking it in stride.

You're right, for the most part, I do appreciate blunt honesty. It's not a huge deal.
 

YostisHome

Wet Bandits
May 7, 2010
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Out of curiosity, what is everyone's issue with players being called out in the media? Airing your dirty laundry in public can sometimes be in poor taste, but other times it does it's job. Mantha didn't meet expectations this year for a few reasons, but he had extremely high expectations after lighting up juniors. What other player was that hyped going to GR?

I love seeing this stuff I have no issues with players being called out. Unless for some reason you think nothing was ever said to Mantha in private. The timing seems strange, though.

Because I'm sure the organization would not want its leadership group airing its dirty laundry in the media. Two way street, lead by example.
 

Chex LeMeneux

Registered User
May 4, 2014
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Personally, I think this year was a recipe for disaster for Mantha. Being a kid that size playing against other kids can be beneficial at the time, but detrimental further down the road. For example, I was 6'5" going into high school. I had played football both years of junior high, but because I was so much bigger than everyone else, I never really focused on weight training like all the other guys did. When I finally did get to high school, I realized how much of a disadvantage I was at because of it.

Mantha's case is even worse, because you need strength and conditioning. He was probably always naturally stronger than his peers without even trying, and he probably didn't really have to focus on conditioning because of his play style (which has been well documented.) I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out he had offseason training issues last summer. Add to that the injury, which would make it very difficult to work on some of the most important areas hockey players need to work on.

All the other hiccups have mentioned by others (having a short offseason, loss of confidence after spending the summer thinking he'll be up with the Wings, transitioning to a much more difficult league while all this s*** is going down, etc.) but I believe the biggest issue was training, and why some think he looks gassed right now. So, I'm in total agreement, a good summer will be huge for him. Let's at least give him that before writing him off.
 

The Zetterberg Era

Ball Hockey Sucks
Nov 8, 2011
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That's not really how it works. Management is the players' boss, not the other way around.

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The Wings have been hard on guys in the media in the past. They don't do it without cause very often. But yes, this is not a two-way street nor should it be. Think of every successful pro franchise in NA, name me the one that doesn't operate in a one way street fashion...
 

The Zetterberg Era

Ball Hockey Sucks
Nov 8, 2011
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Many here are ignoring how Mantha actually adjusted to the Q anyway, it took him a little time to figure that out as well. Throw in the leg injury and this isn't that stunning. He improved a lot of areas down the stretch, I am not worried he won't go hard this summer. A lot of what he was working on this year aren't the areas that earn you a lot of praise but he has made progress there.

I expect a better return offensively next year, but it is crucial he continues to make gains everywhere.
 

ap3x

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Jan 31, 2014
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Stockholm
He knows best what to do this summer. Not worrying at all. Not a fan of calling him out in the media neither though. Plenty of other ways to address that.
 

Henkka

Registered User
Jan 31, 2004
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I found some old data from this board how average Qmjhl production tranfers to Ahl production. The conversion rate is something like ~0.41

So as an example, if an average guy in Qmjhl scored 100 points in 50 games, he should score 41 points in 50 Ahl games on average.

Mantha scored 158 points (81 goals + 77 assists, including playoffs) in 81 games on his last season.

That's 1.95 points per game.

We multiply this 1.95 p/g with that 0.41 QMJhl to Ahl conversion rate and got a figure 0.80 points per game. That should be his Ahl production rate on average after changing leagues.

Mantha played 62 games at regular season and scored 15+18=33 points.

With .80 production rate he should have produced 62 games x 0.80 = ~50 points.

Mantha scored 33 points, so he underachieved with 34% of what average Qmjhl player would do in Ahl.

Considering the circumstances, injury, not the fastest guy to adjust in new leagues, it's not a bad value. The hype just went too high and people had unrealistic expectations.

Mantha is still a great great prospect. he is now in situation like Sheahan after the Tinky-winky incident. Mentally he has hit the lowest bottom, because it's not so easy to score anymore and earlier it was the name of the game and fun part of the game. Now the demands are different in pro hockey, defensive play and teamwork become more important. Only way is to climb up and work harder, learn the details. And he will. It's easier, because the hype in now gone and he can work harder in the shadows.

***

As a comparison, Qmjhl to Nhl conversion rate is ~0.28 points per game.

Jonathan Drouin scored 149 points in 62 games (including playoffs) on his last Qmjhl season. That's 2.40 points per game

With that conversion rate, Drouin should have scored 2.40 x 0.28 = 0.67 points per game in Nhl.

Drouin pleyed in 70 Nhl games and scored 32 points. he should have scored 70 x 0.67 p/g = 47 points with that conversion rate.

So Drouin underachieved with 32% vs. average Qmjhl to Nhl guy. Kind of in same level how Mantha did.

Are these bad players or weak prospects?

No.

But have people became blind because of big production numbers?

Yes.
 
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BinCookin

Registered User
Feb 15, 2012
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Devellano may be a bit harsh in this case. But where do we think Mantha's EGO might be? Does he think he is good? He could use a reality check.

Could being harsh with someone be bad? Yes if he responds poorly. Sometimes someone with a bigger Ego will respond better. But maybe how he responds will determine what the DRW will do with this player. If he starts vocalizing complaints... we know what we will do.

I like that this is a prospects site, but we get WAY too far ahead of ourselves when it comes to prospects sometimes.

Mantha is untradable for Myers
Larkin is untradable for Myers
etc
etc

Why... because they are going to be amazing... right?

We have no proof of that yet. I like to see AHL success first. Pulks to me was never going to play in the NHL. Sheahan was garaunteed to play in the NHL. Sheahan got a lucky break to make the NHL team. And then he excelled. Pulks is earning his spot with AHL production.

Its possible Tyler Bertuzzi becomes our next top prospect over Mantha. Who knows. Or maybe Mantha dominates next year. I have no idea what will happen. But I do know that whatever does happen is more important than these guys stats THIS year, OR previous years. They don't get credit from me for the past. Its about now.
 

Henkka

Registered User
Jan 31, 2004
31,077
12,078
Tampere, Finland
Devellano may be a bit harsh in this case. But where do we think Mantha's EGO might be? Does he think he is good? He could use a reality check.

Could being harsh with someone be bad? Yes if he responds poorly. Sometimes someone with a bigger Ego will respond better. But maybe how he responds will determine what the DRW will do with this player. If he starts vocalizing complaints... we know what we will do.

Very good point.

Just like that Sheahan case. It was a total silence after that Tinky-Winky (happened in November 2012), and year after (in November 2013) Sheahan is an Nhl-guy and never looked back. Riley took that reality check in a perfect way.

This is a different reality check for Mantha, but he has all the tools to turn this for a positive, career-turnaround thing like Sheahan did. Take all negative things out from your life and became a pro.

It's kind of funny how Ken holland raised these Sheahan and Tatar names up in the discussion. Sheahan had a former party-boy reptutation and same rumours were heard also about Tatar. I think both did leave that life behind and became 100% professionals. No partying, just hard work. Every, freaking, day. Look where they are now.
 
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RedWingsDad

Registered User
Jul 30, 2013
163
68
I vote for senile. What is it that Devellano does these days, besides make stupid comments in the media?

That's pretty harsh - what other 'stupid comments' are you referring to? I personally liked a lot of his statements during the lockout.
 

lilidk

Registered User
Mar 4, 2008
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Mantha isn't Red Wings type of player . He needs to learn a lot how to become 2 way player like 19-91 and 44-13
 

DarkReign

Registered User
Jan 30, 2008
4,714
98
Mantha isn't Red Wings type of player . He needs to learn a lot how to become 2 way player like 19-91 and 44-13

Mantha is 20 years old. Pump the damn brakes.

Only Yzerman played in the NHL on or before the age of 20 of the players you (intended) to list.
 

lilidk

Registered User
Mar 4, 2008
9,592
3,426
Mantha is 20 years old. Pump the damn brakes.

Only Yzerman played in the NHL on or before the age of 20 of the players you (intended) to list.

Let's see : 2013 draft

Round 1

NHL Totals

Round Num. Drafted By Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM Last Season

1 1 Colorado Nathan MacKinnon C Halifax Mooseheads [QMJHL] 146 38 63 101 60 2014-15
1 2 Florida Aleksander Barkov C Tappara Tampere [SM-liiga] 125 24 36 60 26 2014-15
1 3 Tampa Bay Jonathan Drouin L Halifax Mooseheads [QMJHL] 70 4 28 32 34 2014-15
1 4 Nashville Seth Jones D Portland Winterhawks [WHL] 159 14 38 52 44 2014-15
1 5 Carolina Elias Lindholm C Brynas IF Gavle [SEL] 139 26 34 60 18 2014-15
1 6 Calgary Sean Monahan C Ottawa 67's [OHL] 156 53 43 96 20 2014-15
1 7 Edmonton Darnell Nurse D Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds [OHL] 2 0 0 0 0 2014-15
1 8 Buffalo Rasmus Ristolainen D TPS Turku [SM-liiga] 112 10 14 24 32 2014-15
1 9 Vancouver Bo Horvat C London Knights [OHL] 68 13 12 25 16 2014-15
1 10 Dallas Valeri Nichushkin R Chelyabinsk Traktor [KHL] 87 14 21 35 10 2014-15
1 11 Philadelphia Samuel Morin D Rimouski Oceanic [QMJHL]
1 12 Phoenix Max Domi C London Knights [OHL]
1 13 Winnipeg Josh Morrissey D Prince Albert Raiders [WHL]
1 14 Columbus Alexander Wennberg C Djurgardens IF Stockholm [Swe-1] 68 4 16 20 22 2014-15
1 15 NY Islanders Ryan Pulock D Brandon Wheat Kings [WHL]
1 16 Buffalo Nikita Zadorov D London Knights [OHL] 67 4 12 16 55 2014-15
1 17 Ottawa Curtis Lazar C Edmonton Oil Kings [WHL] 67 6 9 15 14 2014-15
1 18 San Jose Mirco Mueller D Everett Silvertips [WHL] 39 1 3 4 10 2014-15
1 19 Columbus Kerby Rychel L Windsor Spitfires [OHL] 5 0 3 3 2 2014-15
1 20 Detroit Anthony Mantha R Val d'Or Foreurs [QMJHL]
1 21 Toronto Frederik Gauthier C Rimouski Oceanic [QMJHL]
1 22 Calgary Emile Poirier L Gatineau Olympiques [QMJHL] 6 0 1 1 0 2014-15
1 23 Washington Andre Burakovsky L Malmo Redhawks [Swe-1] 53 9 13 22 10 2014-15
1 24 Vancouver Hunter Shinkaruk L Medicine Hat Tigers [WHL]
1 25 Montreal Michael McCarron R U.S. National Development Team [USHL]
1 26 Anaheim Shea Theodore D Seattle Thunderbirds [WHL]
1 27 Columbus Marko Dano C Bratislava Slovan [KHL] 35 8 13 21 14 2014-15
1 28 Calgary Morgan Klimchuk L Regina Pats [WHL]
1 29 Dallas Jason Dickinson C Guelph Storm [OHL]
1 30 Chicago Ryan Hartman R Plymouth Whalers [OHL] 5 0 0 0 2 2014-15
 
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