Post-Game Talk: Detroit Red Wings @ Toronto Maple Leafs | 7PM ET | FSD

[obey86]

Did nobody notice the original post about the team close to contending put Erik Karlsson on the defensive core? With DK as his partner?

1. Signing Karlsson is a ridiculous long-shot and he is going to be so expensive I have no idea how we will need to work around that contract.
2. Dekeyser should not be sniffing top-pairing minutes on a healthy contending team.

1. It may be a long shot for Karlsson, but with the $83M projected cap the Red Wings have $17 million in cap space opening up next offseason and ANOTHER $27 million opens up the year after that. There would be no need to work around anything to make Karlsson fit at $12 million or whatever.

2. I'm no Dekeyser fan but teams don't always put their 2 best defenseman on the "top pairing" and just because he's playing with Karlsson in the hypothetical scenario does not mean anything as the lines will change numerous times in any given season and almost everyone will be paired with everyone else at some point.

 

[datsyukfan]

Did nobody notice the original post about the team close to contending put Erik Karlsson on the defensive core? With DK as his partner?

1. Signing Karlsson is a ridiculous long-shot and he is going to be so expensive I have no idea how we will need to work around that contract.
2. Dekeyser should not be sniffing top-pairing minutes on a healthy contending team.

I would just put EK with Cholo, they would be so dynamic together and would spend so much time in the o-zone. Have DK play with Hronek and find a solid partner for green

 

[Syckle78]

I was a huge EK fanboy for the last 5 years. But at this point I have zero interest in signing him to a huge contract. His body has taken a shit ton of wear and tear over the years. Elite defensemen usually hold up pretty well into their mid to late 30s but I have a bad feeling about him.

 

[KJoe88]

I was a huge EK fanboy for the last 5 years. But at this point I have zero interest in signing him to a huge contract. His body has taken a **** ton of wear and tear over the years. Elite defensemen usually hold up pretty well into their mid to late 30s but I have a bad feeling about him.

I actually feel the same.

But at the same time, who knows. He could be a consistent 50P guy for five or six seasons. Either way I don’t think he signs here. He most likely re-signs with SJ

Would be extremely exciting if he did come here though.

 

[obey86]

I was a huge EK fanboy for the last 5 years. But at this point I have zero interest in signing him to a huge contract. His body has taken a **** ton of wear and tear over the years. Elite defensemen usually hold up pretty well into their mid to late 30s but I have a bad feeling about him.

Yeah, any longterm/big deal like that is definitely a gamble.

 

[obey86]

I actually feel the same.

But at the same time, who knows. He could be a consistent 50P guy for five or six seasons. Either way I don’t think he signs here. He most likely re-signs with SJ

Would be extremely exciting if he did come here though.

I don't see him re-signing in SJ for some reason, but who knows.

 

[obey86]

I didn't see most of the game last night but just watched the highlights from awood40 on youtube and dang....larkin had so many nice chances and created so many nice chances for others in the game.

 

[Pavels Dog]

How about over 30.

23 and 30 are pretty damn far apart. Especially for sports.

And what players between the age of 23 and 30 does this board want to keep? It's essentially a non-existant list. Age should not be the only consideration for whether to keep a player or not.

To get close to 16 playoff wins, this team needs at least 2 major core pieces. Either a first or second center, and a top pair defenseman. Maybe an additional top 4 defenseman as well, but let's start with those first two pieces. Either this franchise finds a way to acquire those cornerstones outside of the top 10 of the draft, or they stockpile as many resources as they can to get as many top 10 picks as possible. Clearly, that should not extend to a firesale, dealing guys like Larkin (since he's part of the solution, and not part of the problem). But if Howard and Nyquist collectively return a late first and an early second round pick, then why not try to package those assets into a second top 10 pick?

There's a long way until June. But if this draft does shake out to include several really good centers and a few really good defensemen in the top 10-15 slots...why wouldn't you deal as many expiring contracts of veteran players as possible to load up for one more major (potential) shot in the arm, which might finalize (or nearly finalize) the rebuilding process?

If I have the choice between re-signing guys like Nyquist and Howard for stability and work ethic, or having a chance at bringing in BOTH a guy like Turcotte (or maybe even Dach or Cozens) AND one of the top 2-3 defenseman in this draft class...I take the latter without hesitation. Larkin is already leading the way for the next core to have plenty of work ethic, and the high end talent to finish this off right is best found near the top of the draft.

Why is it always "stability and work ethic" when we're talking about guys over the age of like 25? Nyquist has 26 points in 29 games and is quite clearly one of the more skilled players on our roster. If we want to become a skilled team anytime in the relatively close future, Nyquist could be part of that.
I don't believe in ever "finalizing" a rebuild though, and I think we have enough good young players and prospects that we should no longer be desperate. If we're hanging around a playoff spot, this probably isn't the year to go all-in on getting draft picks. Maybe you've fallen in love with 2019 draft prospects, but there will be new prospects in the 2020 draft. And the 2021 draft. And 2022.

Whereas before the team had no identity, the youngsters are now building a team identity and it seems clear that Gus doesn't really fit the mold. It may be just as well to trade him for a guy with a little more hair down there.

The youngsters lead the way in many respects but doesn't mean there's not room for veterans that seem to fit in. I don't know how you can say Nyquist doesn't seem to fit right now. He's been one of our best players this year and, imo, he was really good last year too even if his numbers didn't reflect it as much.

 

[kook10]

The youngsters lead the way in many respects but doesn't mean there's not room for veterans that seem to fit in. I don't know how you can say Nyquist doesn't seem to fit right now. He's been one of our best players this year and, imo, he was really good last year too even if his numbers didn't reflect it as much.

...great reason to sell high on him. It's not so much as he doesn't fit right now -nobody is banking on this season. He clearly is participating in/benefiting from the renewed energy on the squad. The future (as reflected in the play in the youngsters) looks a little more intense, grindy and gritty though, and he is just always on the outside of scrums. Personally, I don't have particular loyalty towards him, so it would be nice to get a premium on him while he is playing well.

 

[Heaton]

...great reason to sell high on him. It's not so much as he doesn't fit right now -nobody is banking on this season. He clearly is participating in/benefiting from the renewed energy on the squad. The future (as reflected in the play in the youngsters) looks a little more intense, grindy and gritty though, and he is just always on the outside of scrums. Personally, I don't have particular loyalty towards him, so it would be nice to get a premium on him while he is playing well.

Agreed. Nyquist has no future on the team and with the plethora of young offensive wingers coming up, it's time to sell high and make room for the kids.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Agreed. Nyquist has no future on the team and with the plethora of young offensive wingers coming up, it's time to sell high and make room for the kids.

I have the time of day for Nyquist if he doesn't get what he wants on the open market and reaches out in July.

He must be dealt though in season.

 

[lilidk]

2 months ago yes ,but now team finally playing. Why are you try to trade away important players

 

[raymond23]

I've rewatched the Larkin goal like ten timea already. Ken Daniel's calls are one of a kind.

 

[The Zermanator]

I didn't see most of the game last night but just watched the highlights from awood40 on youtube and dang....larkin had so many nice chances and created so many nice chances for others in the game.

And he does it while shutting down the other team's top lines.

I have the time of day for Nyquist if he doesn't get what he wants on the open market and reaches out in July.

He must be dealt though in season.

Yeah this is my thinking as well. Nyquist is really upping his trade value right now, it's the best case scenario.

 

[FMichael]

2 months ago yes ,but now team finally playing. Why are you try to trade away important players

As others have mentioned Holland should move guys while their stock is high.

Nyquist, and Howard really don't have 'long term' projections with this current team, and it's best to move them for draft picks.

If the Wings could manage a repeat of the 2018 draft for the 2019 draft - I think this team is set for a long stretch of success.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Agreed. Nyquist has no future on the team and with the plethora of young offensive wingers coming up, it's time to sell high and make room for the kids.

Who are all the young offensive wingers coming up?

 

[Oddbob]

My worry with Nyquist is this is a contract year, and magically he is producing again, after 2 and bit years of being an afterthought. Last thing I want, is he gets a high money 5+ year deal and then returns to the Nyquist we are used to. I love that he is producing don't get me wrong, just seems like so many players are kind of meh, and then contract year kicks in, and they are all in, until they get their money.

 

[InjuredChoker]

nyquist has career high individual point % (% of points player gets for all the goals his team scores), save for his short stint in 11-12 and career high on-ice sh%. both of them are going to regress towards mean, sooner or later.

bobby ryan, mathieu perreault, nick foligno, kris versteeg, drew stafford, teddy purcell, clarke macarthur, milan michalek, tomas fleischmann, dustin brown, tuomo ruutu, brooks laich, r.j. umberger, brad boyes, rene bourque, jason williams, alexei ponikarovksy, jussi jokinen, jiri hudler, jiri stempniak, ryan malone, chris kunitz, radim vrabata, micahel ryder, scott hartnell. all wingers (some played also C) and scored between 0.55 and 0.65 ppg from their age (as of feb 1st that season) 25 to 29 seasons and had those years postlockout. and all of them, except the last 4, saw their ppg decline dramatically and/or became washed over the following 5 years. granted, some haven't finished that 5 year period yet and some are still season on their age 31 season but on the other hand, it's already looking bad for them.

chris kunitz was traded to the pens and spent most of the next 5 years playing with sidney crosby. michael ryder maintained his ppg and NHL in general valued his contributions so much that he spent his age 30-34 years playing for 4 different teams. and for relatively small salary compared to his contributions, just like kunitz. hartnell and vrbata didn't see a big bump in linemate quality and maintained their scoring prowess as they aged.

most likely nyquist won't maintain not only his current ppg this season but one he's had over the last 5. if he gets paid about the same and it doesn't have NMC and is 4-5 years i'm ok with him coming back after he's traded at TDL. 0.6ppg wingers who don't play complete game aren't that hard to find that keeping and extending him is the better option than getting the trade assets and not locking 30+ year old to long-term deal that he most likely won't live up to. even if he'd be unwilling to come back in FA after being traded. don't even want him back if the contract would be something like 6x6.

we're soon or relatively soon going to get rid of the bad contracts holland signed between '13 and '16. let's not make more.

 

[The Zermanator]

Who are all the young offensive wingers coming up?

Zadina, AA, Mantha, Bertuzzi, Rasmussen. You only need 4 wingers in your top 6. There's also Berggren hopefully.

 

[SCD]

2 months ago yes ,but now team finally playing. Why are you try to trade away important players

Despite the team playing better and making it more enjoyable to watch, they are not a competitive playoff team. Not embracing the rebuild will only delay, and might prevent the team from ever becoming competitive with this group of young players. The current core of young players and prospects are not enough. Frankly, they are overachieving.

 

[pz29]

Despite the team playing better and making it more enjoyable to watch, they are not a competitive playoff team. Not embracing the rebuild will only delay, and might prevent the team from ever becoming competitive with this group of young players. The current core of young players and prospects are not enough. Frankly, they are overachieving.

So, should they start playing below their ability and start throwing games? Heck, ask Kenny to write Bettman an e-mail and tell him that the Wings are withdrawing from the season and will just take last place. I get the whole "rebuild" thing, but if this team is better than last place, what are they supposed to do? In addition to being hockey players, they are employees of a business who have to do their job every day, now, not for some shiny future 10 years down the road.

 

[SCD]

So, should they start playing below their ability and start throwing games? Heck, ask Kenny to write Bettman an e-mail and tell him that the Wings are withdrawing from the season and will just take last place. I get the whole "rebuild" thing, but if this team is better than last place, what are they supposed to do? In addition to being hockey players, they are employees of a business who have to do their job every day, now, not for some shiny future 10 years down the road.

Hockey players should play hockey every night to the best of their ability. They should try to win games. In doing so, they will demonstrate (or not) their true value to the organization for the future.

But if Holland and Co. worry more about winning in the moment, like he did 5+ years ago, then the future will not be as bright as many of us hope. They need to move assets now when they have value, for future assets. A lot of it is about timing. Having the right group of players together at the right time. A mix of high valued veterans and cheap RFAs.

IMO, if a player doesn't project to be a key contributor in 3 yrs, he is expendable now.

 

[pz29]

Hockey players should play hockey every night to the best of their ability. They should try to win games. In doing so, they will demonstrate (or not) their true value to the organization for the future.

But if Holland and Co. worry more about winning in the moment, like he did 5+ years ago, then the future will not be as bright as many of us hope. They need to move assets now when they have value, for future assets. A lot of it is about timing. Having the right group of players together at the right time. A mix of high valued veterans and cheap RFAs.

IMO, if a player doesn't project to be a key contributor in 3 yrs, he is expendable now.

Can you name some names? I am guessing you are thinking Nielsen and Gus, and, maybe, Howard? So by getting rid of them, we are guaranteed a tank and a number one pick?

 

[ArGarBarGar]

And what players between the age of 23 and 30 does this board want to keep? It's essentially a non-existant list. Age should not be the only consideration for whether to keep a player or not.

True, but age should be taken into consideration. At what point do you start asking "how long will this player be a contributor and worth the money we are going to have to pay him?"

Why is it always "stability and work ethic" when we're talking about guys over the age of like 25? Nyquist has 26 points in 29 games and is quite clearly one of the more skilled players on our roster. If we want to become a skilled team anytime in the relatively close future, Nyquist could be part of that.
I don't believe in ever "finalizing" a rebuild though, and I think we have enough good young players and prospects that we should no longer be desperate. If we're hanging around a playoff spot, this probably isn't the year to go all-in on getting draft picks. Maybe you've fallen in love with 2019 draft prospects, but there will be new prospects in the 2020 draft. And the 2021 draft. And 2022.

Why not? Why should we at all be entranced by the possibility of maybe making a playoff spot? The team's current place in the standings is a mirage and isn't sustainable over multiple seasons. There are serious flaws in the roster that have to be addressed.

The youngsters lead the way in many respects but doesn't mean there's not room for veterans that seem to fit in. I don't know how you can say Nyquist doesn't seem to fit right now. He's been one of our best players this year and, imo, he was really good last year too even if his numbers didn't reflect it as much.

Veterans can fit in. But Nyquist is 29. He is only just now on pace for 60+ points. Do you anticipate him continuing this type of production on a consistent enough basis to justify keeping him?

How much do you think Nyquist is going to ask for in free agency? Do you think the team should risk losing him for nothing because he could possibly be a solid veteran down the line?

 

[SCD]

NHL has changed the rules to eliminate the guaranteed first pick. But, a top five pick is close to a guaranteed top six forward or top four defense. All keys to the puzzle. The more top 60 picks you have, the more likely you will find a future core player.

I have stated before, my no-trade policy would only extend to Larkin and Cholowski for those on the current roster.