News Article: Detroit Red Wings Andreas Athanasiou is the Unluckiest Player in the NHL

[SCD]

Yeah, Larkin is just lighting it up with like 7 goals and 20 points in his last 35.

Larkin is not a 1C, but is forced into that role here. But, he at least gives 100% every shift and wants to play every game despite injury.

 

[Henkka]

Both Athanasiou and Larkin missed some pre-season games because of injuries and have struggled since.

 

[Oddbob]

I like how some on here defend AA against every negative, yet want to throw Larkin under the bus. Larkin's actually got lots of value and busts his ass for this hockey club, while AA and his fans whine about ice time and usage. Larkin could have 5 goals and 10 assists this season and I would still take him over AA, even if AA had 25 goals this season.

 

[TheOtherOne]

Yah.... Detroit won't be anywhere close to winning a cup in 3 years.

Detroit would be lucky if they can compete for a wild card in 3 years.

Blah blah, semantics.

In reality, we probably won't win a Cup in 3 years, because there are 32 teams and the Stanley Cup is hard as shit to win, then you can dig up this post and say "I told you so".

But if the goal of management isn't to TRY to win a Cup in 3 years, then they need to f*** right off and let someone else more ambitious take over.

 

[TheOtherOne]

Coaching is by far his biggest liability

Okay then if that's the case, then the answer to "how do we help AA in Detroit" is "get a new coach".

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Unlucky is not the first thing that comes to mind when I think of AA.

Fragile...maybe. Unable or unwilling to play through injury...probably.

Not the same mold as Larkin.

He was a 4th round pick. He has exceeded expectations more than Larkin has for their draft positions....

 

[TheOtherOne]

Blah blah, semantics.

In reality, we probably won't win a Cup in 3 years, because there are 32 teams and the Stanley Cup is hard as **** to win, then you can dig up this post and say "I told you so".

But if the goal of management isn't to TRY to win a Cup in 3 years, then they need to **** right off and let someone else more ambitious take over.

Also: In 2010, the Cup winner and runner up were Blackhawks and Flyers. In 2007, the Blackhawks and Flyers were #26 and #30 in the league standings.

sorry, this was supposed to be an edit, not a new post.

 

[Hen Kolland]

He was a 4th round pick. He has exceeded expectations more than Larkin has for their draft positions....

And Larkin is the better player. You know what doesn't matter once you make it to the NHL? Draft position. The better player is the better player.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

And Larkin is the better player. You know what doesn't matter once you make it to the NHL? Draft position. The better player is the better player.

Unfair comparison. Larkin is better than Mantha too why aren't we saying that? AA has done more as a 4th rounder than Larkin has as a 1st...

 

[Frk It]

He was a 4th round pick. He has exceeded expectations more than Larkin has for their draft positions....

A 4th rounder that was originally viewed as a 1st rounder based on his talent level.

Guess Larkin should have had a bad work ethic so he could drop his own draft stock?

 

[Hen Kolland]

Unfair comparison. Larkin is better than Mantha too why aren't we saying that? AA has done more as a 4th rounder than Larkin has as a 1st...

AA has done less as a NHL hockey player than Larkin has done as a NHL hockey player.
Mantha has done less as a NHL hockey player than Larkin has done as a NHL hockey player.
Bertuzzi has done less as a NHL hockey player than Larkin has done as a NHL hockey player.
Zadina has done less as a NHL hockey player than Larkin has done as a NHL hockey player.
Larkin has done less than Zetterberg.
Larkin has done less than Toews.
Larkin has done less than Crosby.
Larkin has done less than McDavid.

None of this is wrong to say. The reason nobody brings it up is because nobody needs to be reminded of this. Until now apparently.

Draft position doesn't matter, actual performance does. Who the f*** would have thought?

 

[Fil Larkmanthanasiou]

Okay then if that's the case, then the answer to "how do we help AA in Detroit" is "get a new coach".

Yes

 

[Shaman464]

He was a 4th round pick. He has exceeded expectations more than Larkin has for their draft positions....

In the year prior to his draft year he was a dark horse top ten pick and a near consensus first half of the first round pick. Half way through his draft year he was still rated as a second half of the first round guy. AA's stock dropped for the exact reason he gets hated on here: His compete level. This article seems to be written by someone who never actually bothered to watch AA play. AA's bad luck is because he literally does nothing in the defensive zone. Most of the time he basically gives the other team a defacto 5v4 while he floats around the blue line for the off chance of a breakout pass. And that's been his MO since juniors.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

He is really unlucky in that his playing style since he was 16 hasn't become embraced league wide since they eliminated how he wants to play in the 80s.

AA has been his own worst enemy since London. He still is good enough to play a lot of games in this league and have a nice career. But the excuses are up at almost 300 games into his NHL career his issues remain the same. I am done making excuses for him and pretty disappointed since it looked like he might finally be turning a corner last year. If you don't engage in even half the games in a season that is on you.

 

[MBH]

He is really unlucky in that his playing style since he was 16 hasn't become embraced league wide since they eliminated how he wants to play in the 80s.

AA has been his own worst enemy since London. He still is good enough to play a lot of games in this league and have a nice career. But the excuses are up at almost 300 games into his NHL career his issues remain the same. I am done making excuses for him and pretty disappointed since it looked like he might finally be turning a corner last year. If you don't engage in even half the games in a season that is on you.

Why not address the facts?
The FACTS are that his underlying defensive numbers are better.
Shots/60 are down. Scoring chances/60 are down.
But goals/60 are WAY up. Save percentage is WAY down.

You can pin that on AA if you want. But where are the facts?

The major change in AA's game this year has nothing to do with all the minuses. And everything to do with his lack of scoring.

The eyeball tests say so.
The stats say so.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Why not address the facts?
The FACTS are that his underlying defensive numbers are better.
Shots/60 are down. Scoring chances/60 are down.
But goals/60 are WAY up. Save percentage is WAY down.

You can pin that on AA if you want. But where are the facts?

The facts are that he's trending for a league worst +/-, 10 goals, and less than 40 points, assuming he comes back our next game.

Facts are, he's having a f***ing bad season compared to last year. There are excuses, but he's proving that who he was in 2016-17 and 2017-18 is more real than who he was in 2018-19.

Again, these are the facts, but probably not the ones you want to gobble up like you do the ones that excuse him playing like shit.

 

[MBH]

The facts are that he's trending for a league worst +/-, 10 goals, and less than 40 points, assuming he comes back our next game.

Facts are, he's having a ****ing bad season compared to last year. There are excuses, but he's proving that who he was in 2016-17 and 2017-18 is more real than who he was in 2018-19.

Again, these are the facts, but probably not the ones you want to gobble up like you do the ones that excuse him playing like ****.

Facts:
Defensive numbers.
CA/60 - down from 62.94 to 57.97
FA/60 - down from 48.6 to 43.9
SA/60 - down from 35.7 to 32.0
GA/60 - up from 2.61 to 4.9
EXPECTED GOALS AGAINST - down from 2.66 to 2.49
High Danger Scoring Chances Against/60 - Down from 12.3 to 10.4
On Ice Save percentage - Down from .927 to .848

I haven't even read the article. But I guarantee you he's looking at the save percentage.
Why?
Because AA has the lowest on-ice save percentage in the league at .848
He has the second-lowest PDO at .910.

I suspect you'll ignore all these numbers and reply with an insult.

I've already called out AA for his poor offensive performance and sulking. You're just making stuff up again.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

He was a 4th round pick. He has exceeded expectations more than Larkin has for their draft positions....

Woohoo. Jonathan Ericsson vastly outperformed his draft position too.

Doesn’t mean that he’s a good hockey player now.

Draft position means nothing after draft night. Andreas Athanasiou was a 4th round pick because he was, rightly or wrongly, labeled a malcontent in London and in Barrie. He always had 1st round talent.

Dylan Larkin is a better hockey player than Andreas Athanasiou and it isn’t close.

 

[TCNorthstars]

The facts are that he's trending for a league worst +/-, 10 goals, and less than 40 points, assuming he comes back our next game.

Facts are, he's having a ****ing bad season compared to last year. There are excuses, but he's proving that who he was in 2016-17 and 2017-18 is more real than who he was in 2018-19.

Again, these are the facts, but probably not the ones you want to gobble up like you do the ones that excuse him playing like ****.

Blasphemy! AA is a PROVEN 30 goal scorer.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Facts:
Defensive numbers.
CA/60 - down from 62.94 to 57.97
FA/60 - down from 48.6 to 43.9
SA/60 - down from 35.7 to 32.0
GA/60 - up from 2.61 to 4.9
EXPECTED GOALS AGAINST - down from 2.66 to 2.49
High Danger Scoring Chances Against/60 - Down from 12.3 to 10.4
On Ice Save percentage - Down from .927 to .848

I haven't even read the article. But I guarantee you he's looking at the save percentage.
Why?
Because AA has the lowest on-ice save percentage in the league at .848
He has the second-lowest PDO at .910.

I suspect you'll ignore all these numbers and reply with an insult.

I've already called out AA for his poor offensive performance and sulking. You're just making stuff up again.

Nobody is making anything up. The stats I provided to you are readily available on hockey-reference. You can feel free to fact check me.

The article did talk extensively about PDO, the defense, and the goaltending. Nobody is denying that. He's still statistically worse in total than he was last year.

 

[MBH]

Nobody is making anything up. The stats I provided to you are readily available on hockey-reference. You can feel free to fact check me.

The article did talk extensively about PDO, the defense, and the goaltending. Nobody is denying that. He's still statistically worse in total than he was last year.

Right. And that's due to his offensive decline. He went from being an ELITE 5-on-5 goal scorer to very, very average. Or even below average.
His defense is actually better in most metrics than last year.
That's the point.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Both Athanasiou and Larkin missed some pre-season games because of injuries and have struggled since.

Someone gets it!

 

[TheOtherOne]

The facts are that he's trending for a league worst +/-, 10 goals, and less than 40 points, assuming he comes back our next game.

Facts are, he's having a ****ing bad season compared to last year. There are excuses, but he's proving that who he was in 2016-17 and 2017-18 is more real than who he was in 2018-19.

Again, these are the facts, but probably not the ones you want to gobble up like you do the ones that excuse him playing like ****.

Even if you want to pretend like last year didn't happen and 17-18 was his peak, that still leaves a pretty good player. He was 79th in G/60 that year and 2nd on our team behind Nyquist. Not gamebreaking, but decent for a guy who was getting 4th line ice time with shit linemates and shit defensemen.

 

[Oddbob]

Right. And that's due to his offensive decline. He went from being an ELITE 5-on-5 goal scorer to very, very average. Or even below average.
His defense is actually better in most metrics than last year.
That's the point.

Metrics are often times not helpful or fully truthful. Brendan Smith and other mediocre to bad players have had decent advanced stats, but their performance didn't suggest as such. An unbiased eye watching AA play tells them he is not trying very hard in the defensive end, which is on him, not on how poor the team is. Get back there and play like you care, everyone else on the team does this, except him. Then you add that he is providing next to no offence this season, and he is completely having a brutal season, which also matches his mostly brutal effort. Luck has played very little into it.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Right. And that's due to his offensive decline. He went from being an ELITE 5-on-5 goal scorer to very, very average. Or even below average.
His defense is actually better in most metrics than last year.
That's the point.

To some extent I am sure, but we aren’t really talking about the emergence of Athanasiou as a plus defensive forward in the league. He went from being completely disengaged to somewhat engaged. Unfortunately, when you are starting at the lowest of lows, signs of growth are still only going to push you closer to being average.

We don’t know the causality of his offensive decline for certain, but could it be in part that he’s sacrificed his offensive potency to become more reliable defensively? And could it be the unfortunate reality that he will never be more than a game breaking offensive threat that needs to be sheltered down the lineup? We can’t confirm anything, but the way things look now, that’s what his performance is hinting at. Some people were willing to come to terms with that potential reality quicker than others.