GDT: Detroit @ New Jersey | 10/172018 | 1:00pm EST >>EARLY GAME<<

[Winger98]

I think to be elite you have to be able to go out and impose your will on games. As Mule said, Larkin was doing that a few games ago. The guy was a beast out there. His play has slipped back a bit since, though that's not exactly a big criticism. still a helluva player. Like ZetterbergEra has pointed out, though, the kid is a worker. Him getting there isn't the long shot bet it was just a year ago.

 

[CaptainZetterberg40]

With regard to the tag on larkin being elite, I believe he is close to working his way there. Certainly on the cusp. However I believe what is more important and the best compliment I can give Larkin is that he is a player and a worker that is needed to pave the way to contending for a cup. There are times where I wish Larkin would be more efficient with his play, because when I watch him, i get scared that he may burn himself out in the long run. But that is an obvious not pick of mine. In my opinion Larkin becoming the captain of this team will be more important to this team and the best thing for his career. In my opinion, the point where larkin becomes elite, is the time where he can slow down the play.

I'm am also happy with the progression of Rasmussen too. He is finding his way to impact the game in the way he is most successful at. Unless Mantha finds way to evolve his outlook on the game mentally and physically, I personally see Rasmussen taking Mantha's spot on the depth chart of this team. Plus, look at the guys expression, it's that of a serious warrior.

Cholowski is an offensive beauty. I couldn't ask for more. He shoots when most others on the team would pass, and passes when most others on the team would shoot. He has the instincts for the game. Defensively, he will continue to grow. I personally see that he needs to get a bit faster or anticipate quicker in order to close gaps on rushes. A bit stronger to create separation. But those two qualities are those that will come with time and I am patient with him in every way. He has the foundation, that is for sure.

Mantha's evolution will depend on whether or not he can develop better balance on his skates and make quicker decisions, among other things as well. He has scoring talent, but not scoring habits. Far too much I am seeing plays die in the offensive zone along the halfwall because he is getting out muscled / off balance off the puck, or passes getting deflected out of play. Also he simply doesnt compete to get to looss pucks first. Defensively he is still a poke and hope player. But one quality I feel will shadow that flaw a bit more would be if he could work on his positioning more as well as understanding the value in closing gaps quicker through anticipation, position and quicker footspeed. Maybe im not aware of his defensive assignment, but it seems to me his potential impact is that of covering the point defenders. Often i see him being positioned far too close to the middle of the dzone and closer to the net. Let your teammates do their job, position yourself a bit closer to the point defenders so that you can either intercept/deflect a pass or pressure the defender sooner and cause a breakdown in their play. The beginning to this season has shown me so far is that he didn't work on the right things this summer. Next season/summer will be the make or break for the status of his career.

 

[RedMenace]

The Wings win?

Bitch.

The Wings lose?

Bitch.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Larkin is not elite and never will be. Doesnt have the puck skills or the shot. Hes not even PPG in an era where half a dozen guys are pacing for 100+ points.

He has a good motor and good IQ which makes him a solid 1C but he's not elite.

Yep, he's not elite just like Toews isn't and never was. Still good enough for a #1C. If we find a better #1C we are in a really, really, really good position and probably poised for many cup runs.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Yep, he's not elite just like Toews isn't and never was. Still good enough for a #1C. If we find a better #1C we are in a really, really, really good position and probably poised for many cup runs.

We need more than another #1C for "many cup runs"

 

[InjuredChoker]

Yep, he's not elite just like Toews isn't and never was. Still good enough for a #1C. If we find a better #1C we are in a really, really, really good position and probably poised for many cup runs.

toews from 09-15 was definitely elite, as in top 5 center.

 

[SCD]

Larkin is a far better playmaker at this point than I ever projected him to be. The guy works pretty tirelessly on his game, I am not really sure what his peak is at this point. I think he could have a couple of real big seasons maybe, we will see. But it is hard not to believe in the guy, he works at it and he has gotten better every season, he appears to have taken another huge step this year. It's really awesome to watch.

I agree. My concern is his quickness will deteriorate with time and must be replaced with better puck handling/control, like Zetterberg. Larkin has shown improved ability in puck battles along the boards, that might be due to greater strength from physical maturity. I am confident he will always work on self improvement.

Some better line mates would greatly help as well.

 

[SCD]

I think to be elite you have to be able to go out and impose your will on games. As Mule said, Larkin was doing that a few games ago. The guy was a beast out there. His play has slipped back a bit since, though that's not exactly a big criticism. still a helluva player. Like ZetterbergEra has pointed out, though, the kid is a worker. Him getting there isn't the long shot bet it was just a year ago.

I am not sure Larkin is 100% right now after that fall. This little break may help him.

 

[TheMule93]

Yep, he's not elite just like Toews isn't and never was. Still good enough for a #1C. If we find a better #1C we are in a really, really, really good position and probably poised for many cup runs.

Toews was elite. He was MUCH better defensively than Larkin currently is.
So who are you arguing against? And his offense was much better than Larkin averaging 70pts a season in this high scoring era. He was ppg from 09-15 in the dead puck era 2.0 but missed games every season so didn't 80 pts. That would be like Larkin pacing for 85-90 pts a season while being Selke caliber. That would absolutely be elite. I don't think Larkin will do that, though.

Do you people have more elite players that you'd like to claim I'd say aren't elite? Keep putting words into my mouth

 

[Ezekial]

It's funny watching people say Larkin doesn't have the production to be elite like they've never seen a Bergeron stat line in their life.

Selke winning point totals for Bergeron
64
62
55
53

 

[avssuc]

hope this is the case. i like this comparison.
prime todd bertuzzi.

rasmussen is bigger tho and has the skills IMO to be even better with unreal hand eye and his skating.

I was thinking a mix of prime Gordie Howe, prime Cam Neely, and prime Jesus Christ

 

[Syckle78]

Yep, he's not elite just like Toews isn't and never was. Still good enough for a #1C. If we find a better #1C we are in a really, really, really good position and probably poised for many cup runs.

Is that better 1c playing like 3 different positions on defense too?

 

[ricky0034]

Toews was elite. He was MUCH better defensively than Larkin currently is.
So who are you arguing against? And his offense was much better than Larkin averaging 70pts a season in this high scoring era. He was ppg from 09-15 in the dead puck era 2.0 but missed games every season so didn't 80 pts. That would be like Larkin pacing for 85-90 pts a season while being Selke caliber. That would absolutely be elite. I don't think Larkin will do that, though.

Do you people have more elite players that you'd like to claim I'd say aren't elite? Keep putting words into my mouth

no he wasn't

he literally only put up a PPG pace once in that entire timeframe(and it was in the shortened lockout season),and averaged 0.90 over the entire timeframe which is a full 8 points under point per game

he also only ever lead his team in scoring if Kane missed games,and was often outscored by f***ing Patrick Sharp as well meanwhile Larkin is pretty much the only thing this team has at the moment,they're very comparable offensively if Larkin doesn't fall off a cliff

 

[KasperTheGrittyGhost]

I was thinking a mix of prime Gordie Howe, prime Cam Neely, and prime Jesus Christ

He’s bigger than all of those guys though

 

[TheMule93]

no he wasn't

he literally only put up a PPG pace once in that entire timeframe(and it was in the shortened lockout season),and averaged 0.90 over the entire timeframe which is a full 8 points under point per game

he also only ever lead his team in scoring if Kane missed games,and was often outscored by ****ing Patrick Sharp as well meanwhile Larkin is pretty much the only thing this team has at the moment,they're very comparable offensively if Larkin doesn't fall off a cliff

In toews prime, his 5 best seasons, from 09-10 to 13-14, his points per game was 0.94 which is ~77 points a season. This was good for 24th overall in the entire league. Last season, 0.94 points per game would be 35th-36th overall. This season 0.94PPG is 53rd overall in the league, though that is kinda bullshit to report at this point because numbers will come down as the season progresses.

If Larkin wanted to match toew's production he'd have to produce like Mark Scheifele who ended up 24th in PPG with an average of 1.00ppg, so basically a point per game player. On top of that he'd have to vastly improve his defense in order to get nominated for selkes.

I said that I think larkin will put up 70 pts a season with decent two way play which would be great, but not elite. Elite would be closer to ~PPG with selke level defense in this higher scoring era of hockey.

 

[waltdetroit]

I was thinking a mix of prime Gordie Howe, prime Cam Neely, and prime Jesus Christ

Prime Jesus Christ was a goalie but I see your point

 

[Konnan511]

Prime Jesus Christ was a goalie but I ee your point

And Datsyuk was the closest to Moses with the way he parted defenders.

 

[The Tank]

While this team lacks in overall skill it looks like it doesn't lack heart. This trend won't continue forever but I love to see them constantly overcome early deficits. One of the brightest things is that it's the young guns that lead the team and steps up in the right moments. We probably won't make the playoffs and we probably won't end up with the highest chances on the #1 pick but I love the way this team responds to adversity at the moment.

 

[Invictus12]

While this team lacks in overall skill it looks like it doesn't lack heart. This trend won't continue forever but I love to see them constantly overcome early deficits. One of the brightest things is that it's the young guns that lead the team and steps up in the right moments. We probably won't make the playoffs and we probably won't end up with the highest chances on the #1 pick but I love the way this team responds to adversity at the moment.

I don't think it's skill we lack. More like consistent ability to put it to full use. We have speed, we have guys who see the ice well, we have guys that can shoot. A lot of them are still young and not poised yet when dealing in defensive situations. AA has been playing great for instance but, he does often makes 10 unnecessary moves just to make a play. Kind of goes back to Datyuk telling a story how Bowman once told him after he made Foote do the dance behind the net how 'you only need to beat him once'. It's kind of the same thing I'm seeing from many guys on the ice.

 

[Pavels Dog]

In toews prime, his 5 best seasons, from 09-10 to 13-14, his points per game was 0.94 which is ~77 points a season. This was good for 24th overall in the entire league. Last season, 0.94 points per game would be 35th-36th overall. This season 0.94PPG is 53rd overall in the league, though that is kinda bull**** to report at this point because numbers will come down as the season progresses.

If Larkin wanted to match toew's production he'd have to produce like Mark Scheifele who ended up 24th in PPG with an average of 1.00ppg, so basically a point per game player. On top of that he'd have to vastly improve his defense in order to get nominated for selkes.

I said that I think larkin will put up 70 pts a season with decent two way play which would be great, but not elite. Elite would be closer to ~PPG with selke level defense in this higher scoring era of hockey.

Reality is he cracked 70 points ONCE. And tbh, the way Larkin is playing this season is not on some much lower level defensively than Toews. Slightly lower? Perhaps. But remember Toews had arguably the best defensive winger in the game by his side, along with the strongest top 4D in the NHL.
Larkin will likely get Selke votes this season. How many is hard to say, but that award has a lot to do with reputation and being on a good team drastically increases your odds of getting recognition.

I refuse to accept a definition of "elite" that includes a player with ONE 70 point season but rules Larkin out as an elite player now or in the future.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Reality is he cracked 70 points ONCE. And tbh, the way Larkin is playing this season is not on some much lower level defensively than Toews. Slightly lower? Perhaps. But remember Toews had arguably the best defensive winger in the game by his side, along with the strongest top 4D in the NHL.
Larkin will likely get Selke votes this season. How many is hard to say, but that award has a lot to do with reputation and being on a good team drastically increases your odds of getting recognition.

I refuse to accept a definition of "elite" that includes a player with ONE 70 point season but rules Larkin out as an elite player now or in the future.

during toews' prime, he had fairly close shot/goal metrics with and without hossa, with hossa goal metrics went up in later prime years, but they were still among the best without hossa. hossa also had his numbers go down when he wasn't playing without toews, which applies to almost everyone on those hawks teams.

he didn't have great raw point totals but he was top among all Cs in 5on5 scoring. and pretty much the best in relative goals %, and that's despite playing on great teams which should hurt him in that stat.

larkin right now definitely isn't elite but wouldn't completely rule out that he becomes one in the future. however, i don't personally see the same hockey IQ or high end puck skill that other elite Cs have had and have.

 

[Nut Upstrom]

Loving Rasmussen's intensity. Some serious fist-pumping after he scores and then that look... Kid just looks like and acts like he wants to lead and be a factor. Very happy with his improved play and to see that the goals are starting to go in for him. He's only going to get better, I hope his ceiling his higher than most have projected, but if not, he seems the type to find other ways to make a difference.

 

[ricky0034]

honestly if Larkin can be a consistent 70+ point guy which while not guaranteed seems fairly likely at this point then whether or not he is "elite" is mostly just semantics

 

[ArGarBarGar]

I don't particularly care that much about arguing the definition of elite.

If Larkin scored 70 points or more and is able to be a top defensive center, then we will be put in a good spot to win most nights and should be all we need (as far as a #1 C is concerned) for the team to be a contender.

 

[SoupGuru]

We all need to agree on what an elite player is before we yell at each other anymore.

How many elite forwards are there currently? Name them.