Eklund Rumor: Detroit interested in Ristolainen for Mantha

[Sansbacon]

I’m on Long Island and we don’t have that around that here.

There’s an anchor bar in Manhattan, btw. W57th. Just went there the other day, in fact.

 

[54thecup]

Here, I’ll save you the trouble

Anchor Bar's Buffalo Wings: The Original Hot Wing Recipe

I'm from Niagara Falls Ontario so I've been there more than most!

I luv going to Buffalo for a game, still a Bandits fan to this day!

FWIW, the Buffalo Bandits NLL Lacrosse home games are the best bang for your buck in sports entertainment I know.... well unless you combine jello and....

 

[LarKing]

You got me. What can I say?

I'm sorry I tried to misrepresent your "not sure" with "probably wouldn't"

Yes, those are not the same things. One implies it could be either way. One implies likely not.

No need to get defensive.

 

[Sansbacon]

I'm from Niagara Falls Ontario so I've been there more than most!

I luv going to Buffalo for a game, still a Bandits fan to this day!

FWIW, the Buffalo Bandits NLL Lacrosse home games are the best bang for your buck in sports entertainment I know.... well unless you combine jello and....

Oh yeah, I’d gone to many when uncle John Tavares was dominating the league. My brother was a stats tracker for a couple years as well.

Next time you’re down in Buffalo, check out the wings at Gabriel’s gate in Allentown. I haven’t been there in 10 years or so but I don’t imagine it’s changed much. Best wings in Buffalo, imo.

Also, in an effort to stay on topic: Risto suck, Mantha good.

 

[kenfury]

Oh yeah, I’d gone to many when uncle John Tavares was dominating the league. My brother was a stats tracker for a couple years as well.

Next time you’re down in Buffalo, check out the wings at Gabriel’s gate in Allentown. I haven’t been there in 10 years or so but I don’t imagine it’s changed much. Best wings in Buffalo, imo.

Also, in an effort to stay on topic: Risto suck, Mantha good.

Gabriel's gate, 911 bar and Mamousers for wings

 

[Quiet Jack]

Gabriel's gate, 911 bar and Mamousers for wings

wrong, right, wrong

edit: and it's nine eleven tavern

 

[Sansbacon]

wrong, right, wrong

edit: and it's nine eleven tavern

I’ve had wings at Gabe’s that were so perfectly fried you could actually eat most of the bone on the flats. They just crumbled into delicious nothingness. That, and you’re at least in a fun part of town...

I think the bottom line though, is that Buffalo has a lot of very good wing spots and personal preference comes into play.

 

[Steddy33]

Yes, those are not the same things. One implies it could be either way. One implies likely not.

No need to get defensive.

Context is a thing. I don't think you get it. That was kinda the point.

 

[obey86]

If you wanna pretend player usage doesn't matter, have a blast, but, uh...You're wrong.

"Player usage" is also the only reason he can crack 40 points. Cut his minutes to a more appropriate TOI and take away the offensive opportunity that comes with all of those additional minutes and he's likely no longer a 40 point defenseman, but more like a 25-30 point guy.

 

[obey86]

Yeah, zero chance Joker should be ahead of Risto as of this season. Risto at the very least is the RD2. Between him, Miller and Montour all 3 should get around 20 mins a piece.

I am looking forward to Risto playing on a good defense for the first time in his career. Just asinine that a guy who had to carry the worst blueline in the league the last half decade playing with broken bums like Josh Gorges, who has 420+ career games, 4 straight 41+ point seasons (1 of 9 D in entire league to do that) , 3 more seasons under contract at only 5.4 mil and is only turning 25. 25 year old top 4 RHD who can play in all situations, put up 40+ ppints every season, can skate, hit, pass and shoot should not be disrespected as much as Risto is.

Now that the Sabres have arguably a top 10-15 blueline corps and Risto no longer has to play 26 minutes a game you will see Risto have a normal +/-, better possession #s and just better play period. He will still get enough ice time and PP time to put up 40+ points. When Risto puts up 40 points, a +/- near 0 and not -30 and better analytics as a whole his value will increase tenfold.

Mantha for Risto is fair value. Mantha surely has not done nearly enough to somehow make people go up in arms being mentioned in a trade for Risto. 25 year old 40+ point top 4 RHD for a 25 year old 25 goal,45-50 point 2nd line winger is as fair as can be. And in general D already have a built in premium in trade value. If Mantha somehow has untapped potential being a month older then Risto then so does Rasmus since this the first year ever he has more then 1 other legit top 4 D on his team.

He can barely get over the 40 point mark playing 25 minutes a game (41, 45, 41, 43) and getting all the premium offensive/PP opportunities for the team. But cutting his ice time significantly and taking away many of those offensive opportunities he's still going to put up the same amount of points he had been? That seems like wishful thinking.

 

[tsujimoto74]

"Player usage" is also the only reason he can crack 40 points. Cut his minutes to a more appropriate TOI and take away the offensive opportunity that comes with all of those additional minutes and he's likely no longer a 40 point defenseman, but more like a 25-30 point guy.

Giving him fewer and less difficult minutes should make it easier for him to produce, if anything. Not to mention that Buffalo has been absolutely atrocious at even strength scoring as a team for the entirety of Risto's tenure here, which---as you could easily figure from looking at the difference in ROR's productivity between BUF and STL---is also definitely a limiting factor.

In b4 "but it's Risto's fault the whole team can't score at ES," as if that could ever be fairly attributed to 1 guy.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Giving him fewer and less difficult minutes should make it easier for him to produce, if anything. Not to mention that Buffalo has been absolutely atrocious at even strength scoring as a team for the entirety of Risto's tenure here, which---as you could easily figure from looking at the difference in ROR's productivity between BUF and STL---is also definitely a limiting factor.

In b4 "but it's Risto's fault the whole team can't score at ES," as if that could ever be fairly attributed to 1 guy.

I’m with you on this.

We saw what happened to Doughty when he was tasked with carrying an entire team/defence... and that’s a guy regarded as a top 3-5D in the NHL.

I think giving Ristolainen proper usage, less defensive stress, and not putting him on the ice every second shift to carry what has been a dumpster fire of a team will show a much better player.

The problem is if he were traded to Detroit, he likely will have to carry an even worse team

 

[tsujimoto74]

I’m with you on this.

We saw what happened to Doughty when he was tasked with carrying an entire team/defence... and that’s a guy regarded as a top 3-5D in the NHL.

I think giving Ristolainen proper usage, less defensive stress, and not putting him on the ice every second shift to carry what has been a dumpster fire of a team will show a much better player.

The problem is if he were traded to Detroit, he likely will have to carry an even worse team

Yeah, that's a very fair point. Detroit's blue line doesn't look to be in great shape at the moment (though there are some nice futures there). Risto likely would see little change in his usage if traded there. I'm actually looking forward to seeing Risto under new coaching here with all the depth we've added on D to help him carry the load.

 

[Moskau]

Giving him fewer and less difficult minutes should make it easier for him to produce, if anything. Not to mention that Buffalo has been absolutely atrocious at even strength scoring as a team for the entirety of Risto's tenure here, which---as you could easily figure from looking at the difference in ROR's productivity between BUF and STL---is also definitely a limiting factor.

In b4 "but it's Risto's fault the whole team can't score at ES," as if that could ever be fairly attributed to 1 guy.

Risto is a below average passer and bad at getting the puck out of the zone and up the ice. He has absolutely no discernible skills that should make anyone think a reduction in minutes would make it easier to produce. If he's not playing half the game he's not going to put up the 40+ points he has been. And you're left with a 30 point defensemen who isn't good at playing defense. And the continued comparisons to Doughty's 2018 season are comical. Someone who has never watched Hockey in their life could watch both players for 2 minutes and tell you which player knows what they're doing offensively and defensively and it wouldn't be Risto.

 

[obey86]

Giving him fewer and less difficult minutes should make it easier for him to produce, if anything. Not to mention that Buffalo has been absolutely atrocious at even strength scoring as a team for the entirety of Risto's tenure here, which---as you could easily figure from looking at the difference in ROR's productivity between BUF and STL---is also definitely a limiting factor.

In b4 "but it's Risto's fault the whole team can't score at ES," as if that could ever be fairly attributed to 1 guy.

But Ryan O Reilly's ice time did not get cut like Ristolainen's would be. ROR went from playing 20:49 for BUF to playing 20:46 for STL.....no difference. It makes sense ROR would put up more points playing on a better roster when his ice time stays constant.

In this hypothetical scenario where Risto is being placed into a more appropriate role, his ice time is being cut by like 5 minutes per game. That's a significant difference and would be the equivalent of him essentially playing 16 less games (on an ice time basis) than he played the year before. That's a huge difference to make up, even with an increase in P/60, especially if Dahlin is taking PP time from him.

 

[obey86]

Risto is a below average passer and bad at getting the puck out of the zone and up the ice. He has absolutely no discernible skills that should make anyone think a reduction in minutes would make it easier to produce. If he's not playing half the game he's not going to put up the 40+ points he has been. And you're left with a 30 point defensemen who isn't good at playing defense. And the continued comparisons to Doughty's 2018 season are comical. Someone who has never watched Hockey in their life could watch both players for 2 minutes and tell you which player knows what they're doing offensively and defensively and it wouldn't be Risto.

Thank you, exactly what i've been saying. The same situations (boat loads of undeserved ice time) that cause him to be a -40 or whatever, are the same things that contribute to his point totals.

 

[One Winged Angel]

There’s an anchor bar in Manhattan, btw. W57th. Just went there the other day, in fact.

How is it?

 

[Hellinator]

I don't understand this theory that if he plays less minutes his points would go down. If I was a coach I wouldn't reduce his offensive zone minutes (his strength) but his defensive zone minutes. That is a coach that is trying to make something he isn't. If that is something you can't use, that's understandable.

 

[EichHart]

Risto breaks his stick on the PP nearly every game and leads to a breakaway for the other team. That alone should lower his value substantially. Oh yeah, he's also a terrible d man.

 

[Hellinator]

Risto breaks his stick on the PP nearly every game and leads to a breakaway for the other team. That alone should lower his value substantially. Oh yeah, he's also a terrible d man.

I've never heard of a player being valued by their stick breakage and even though it may have stood out in a few games I think your estimate of "nearly every game" is exaggerated quite a bit.

 

[itwasaforwardpass]

I don't understand this theory that if he plays less minutes his points would go down. If I was a coach I wouldn't reduce his offensive zone minutes (his strength) but his defensive zone minutes. That is a coach that is trying to make something he isn't. If that is something you can't use, that's understandable.

The reduction of power play minutes would be the main factor in his point totals going down. That should happen now that Dahlin is on the team.

 

[Hellinator]

The reduction of power play minutes would be the main factor in his point totals going down. That should happen now that Dahlin is on the team.

On this team maybe, but this thread is talking about a possible trade to Detroit.

As I stated in my previous post " That is a coach that is trying to make something he isn't. If that is something you can't use, that's understandable. " I think Buffalo would fall under the category "something you don't need" That being said he still got 43 points with Dahlin on the team for the whole season. So it wasn't like his point production was replaced.

 

[Sabrebuff2020]

I’d swap Mantha for Reinhardt - left winger for righty- just to get some balance in the lineup. Other than that, no interest in swapping Mantha for anyone who’s remotely available on Buff.

Not likely from the Sabres

 

[Sabrebuff2020]

Risto plus cozens for mantha plus x and plus y. X is probably mcissac. Y might be Ericsson, daley, or green.

That's about the only way I think detroit jumps at this. Rumor has it detroit liked cozens.

Lol Sabres are not trading Cozens

 

[obey86]

I don't understand this theory that if he plays less minutes his points would go down. If I was a coach I wouldn't reduce his offensive zone minutes (his strength) but his defensive zone minutes. That is a coach that is trying to make something he isn't. If that is something you can't use, that's understandable.

You really don’t understand the theory that if he’s on the ice significantly less he will have less of an opportunity to put up points?

Studies have shown that zone start percentage have little to no effect on offensive output as the large majority of shift changes occur on the fly.