Confirmed Trade: [DET/VAN] Red Wings trade F David Pope to Canucks for D Alex Biega

[Cogburn]

One, LD and RD are different positions. I shouldn't have to say this.

Two, Biega was blocking exactly freaking nobody. Rafferty and Teves are complete unknowns at this point. Chatfield just plain sucks. Sautner, Brisebois and Juolevi are all lefties. Tell me what great depth the Canucks have in Utica.

Three, people were applauding Dubas for finding Leivo a new NHL home because he actually had players in-house to replace him, and he got more than a freaking ECHL player for him.

Four, if you're not capable of understanding the relative value of cheap, homegrown depth players who cost you nothing to acquire (like Benning) maybe it'll dawn on you when Tanev gets hurt, Myers gets destroyed in front-line shutdown duty, there's nobody competent to call up and Benning has to shell out more draft picks to replace the guy he just gave away for nothing of any use to the team. Or maybe you won't, I dunno.

Five, I know it's super-cool and popular for a certain segment of supposed Canucks fans to **** all over their fellow posters, but use some critical thought before posting.

Your hyperbole has convinced me. You're right. This is Bennings most heinous move. Not his drafting. Not the Kesler trade or the Miller trade or any other trade. Not Erikssons contract, not the treatment of Vrbata after his lofty contract, not even this year's newest batch of already not worth their contract signings. Hell, this is worse then Luongo, Bure, Neely and Linden all being traded away at once. Worst move ever!

They did the guy a solid, so knock off the Dubas handies or see the parallels. For all this talk about how he out performed Fantenberg and others for an NHL spot (which I agree he earned), so they found somewhere he can play. RD and LD are different but look at the number of guys that have played both sides on that list. I forgot Eliot too. Biega himself switched sides numerous times. You're saying with 100 percent certainty that none of those guys would make a suitable fill in that role? All are garbage and will never live up to Biegas status as a sheltered number 7/8 level player? Warts and all with his defensive game, I thought Rafferty outperformed Biega.

Its been mentioned too, Biegas status as a vet or overager or what ever the term is was another factor.

The incessant whining like we traded Pettersson for Lucic is ridiculous.

 

[wetcoast]

What the **** is this. So tired of garbage moves by Jim. Our youth forwards are failing to develop in Utica because we give them garbage ice time leading to trades and loans to Europe so in order to fix that problem we trade one of our best depth utility defenders for a failed NCAA signing who’s just gonna clog up the lines some more. Have fun getting ice time boys !

not that trading Biega is going to sink the canucks this year but WTF is going on with this trade?

We have annual injuries to Edler and Tanev and Biega is a very useful guy.

Pope looks like a guy who will be out of hockey soon TBH.

 

[Canuck86]

What is with Canuck fans on this forum...

Biega was a great depth guy, to me it was clear in camp with the long looks of Rafferty and Chatfield they wanted to go with a younger players as a call up.

The veteran rule would come into affect also if Biega was to report to Utica. This trade is like Leivo basically...Canuck GM albeit a bonehead of a GM wanted to give Biega a chance with another organization as he felt they had sufficient depth to replace him.

Remember, they did waive him so he could have been claimed for free, this didnt use a roster spot for detroit though. I am sad to see the workaholic Bulldog go, but we got the best of him and the team wanted to move on, so they did him a solid and found a team who was interested and took their ECHL player in return for the 31yr old veteran depth D man.

Calm the f*** down! CDC is right about the whiners on this forum, thought they could be bad but this is just crazy to read some of the comments haha!

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Aren't the Wings pretty low on the claim order right now? I guess the benefit to the Wings is that they still have a relatively high claim spot until the waiver order is revised later in the season.

I thought waivers claim order was by current win%? Did it change, if so how?

 

[Luck 6]

This one is a puzzle.

 

[clunk]

Your hyperbole has convinced me. You're right. This is Bennings most heinous move. Not his drafting. Not the Kesler trade or the Miller trade or any other trade. Not Erikssons contract, not the treatment of Vrbata after his lofty contract, not even this year's newest batch of already not worth their contract signings. Hell, this is worse then Luongo, Bure, Neely and Linden all being traded away at once. Worst move ever!

They did the guy a solid, so knock off the Dubas handies or see the parallels. For all this talk about how he out performed Fantenberg and others for an NHL spot (which I agree he earned), so they found somewhere he can play. RD and LD are different but look at the number of guys that have played both sides on that list. I forgot Eliot too. Biega himself switched sides numerous times. You're saying with 100 percent certainty that none of those guys would make a suitable fill in that role? All are garbage and will never live up to Biegas status as a sheltered number 7/8 level player? Warts and all with his defensive game, I thought Rafferty outperformed Biega.

Its been mentioned too, Biegas status as a vet or overager or what ever the term is was another factor.

The incessant whining like we traded Pettersson for Lucic is ridiculous.

It's not this one trade alone.. It's the collective **** ups all put together that fuel the fire with this trade; death by 1000 cuts, to put it more in perspective. This is just another example of where the Canucks lose on value in a trade and also lose a valuable depth option that would have came cheaper than the guys that were competing against him for jobs, supposedly. (Benn and Fantenberg).

It's pretty clear by this trade that Benning wanted 'his guys' in there. He's severed ties with many of Gillis'/previous GMs acquisitions and replaced them with downgrades just so he could have 'his guys'. This has been a running theme with Jim Benning. The only real guys he can't trade would be Horvat + Markstrom, for obvious reasons. He tried, supposedly, with Edler and Tanev. Everyone else has been replaced with an arguably worse player if we're talking about trades and FA acquisitions.

So, instead on focusing on this one deal, look at the grand scheme of things. THAT is why people are miffed, because it follows a pattern of incompetence that sums up the Jim Benning reign here. Biega was a very good depth d-man that did his due diligence in the minors and NEVER complained. He did well on call-ups, often outplaying at least two of our d-men every time. That is something that should be rewarded if you want to run a competent organisation, but that's just not how the Canucks function.

 

[mouser]

Aren't the Wings pretty low on the claim order right now? I guess the benefit to the Wings is that they still have a relatively high claim spot until the waiver order is revised later in the season.

What are you talking about?

The waiver order doesn't change if a claim is made.

Yes it does.

The NHL waiver priority order doesn’t change because a team claimed a player on waivers.

That only happens in fantasy sports or video games, not the real NHL world.

 

[Ciao]

Doesn't mean you have to trade a serviceable 6-7D for a career minor leaguer who has no hope of ever playing in the NHL.

If the Canucks thoughtbBiega were a 6-7 D, he would still be on the Canucks.

Apparently, they did think that and they waived him. He cleared waivers. Remember?

 

[innitfam]

If the Canucks thoughtbBiega were a 6-7 D, he would still be on the Canucks.

Apparently, they did think that and they waived him. He cleared waivers. Remember?

I understand the reasoning for trading Biega. It's mostly for Biega to stick with another team. But it's a valueless trade. In a couple months, I feel like a team would be more inclined to give up something a little more valuable, once injuries deplete depth.

 

[Cogburn]

It's not this one trade alone.. It's the collective **** ups all put together that fuel the fire with this trade; death by 1000 cuts, to put it more in perspective. This is just another example of where the Canucks lose on value in a trade and also lose a valuable depth option that would have came cheaper than the guys that were competing against him for jobs, supposedly. (Benn and Fantenberg).

It's pretty clear by this trade that Benning wanted 'his guys' in there. He's severed ties with many of Gillis'/previous GMs acquisitions and replaced them with downgrades just so he could have 'his guys'. This has been a running theme with Jim Benning. The only real guys he can't trade would be Horvat + Markstrom, for obvious reasons. He tried, supposedly, with Edler and Tanev. Everyone else has been replaced with an arguably worse player if we're talking about trades and FA acquisitions.

So, instead on focusing on this one deal, look at the grand scheme of things. THAT is why people are miffed, because it follows a pattern of incompetence that sums up the Jim Benning reign here. Biega was a very good depth d-man that did his due diligence in the minors and NEVER complained. He did well on call-ups, often outplaying at least two of our d-men every time. That is something that should be rewarded if you want to run a competent organisation, but that's just not how the Canucks function.

It's a different kind of **** up from when the idiot was hired. We have players Biega outplayed I agree and I'd say other guys outplayed him too. Benn has a different skill set then a few of the others and I don't know what the deal with Fantenberg is.

I don't see that take. Biega was with Utica the whole season before being called up...under Benning's leadership (for lack of a better term). I don't see him as a "Gillis guy". My take away is the same thing as what happened with Leivo. He paid his dues and wasn't in the future of the team. I feel Rafferty outplayed Biega who outplayed Fantenberg. We have options. Leivo was superfluous on the Leafs roster last year...and would have fit in perfectly with what they needed this off season (a cheap replacement level player).

Also Benning has had no problem moving "his" guys as well. Horvat Markstrom Edler and Tanev are a 1/5th of the overall roster. But this has also been 5 years. The Sedins and Malhotra retired. Kesler demanded a trade. Burrows Higgins Hamhuis Bieksa and Hansen all had their play fall off a cliff. I mean it's not like Benning has been entirely responsible the whole core being moved out. Miller and Vrbata were both let loose without any fan fare. Bonino Prust Dorsett Vey Gudbranson Dowd Leipsic Pouliot Gagner Spooner Nilsson Del Zotto Schenn and Dahlen have all been moved out or left to walk in free agency too. That is a lot of turn over but I don't see Biega being moved as an anti-Gillis move any more.

Biega being dumped off the roster (unceremoniously) isn't a good move for the Canucks but there is a difference between moving a depth player to a team that he will play a role on (rightly or wrongly assuming previously acquired depth will cover the loss) and...the Sutter trade. Or Gudbranson trade. Or Garrison-2nd-Vey. Or not moving Hamhuis or Vrbata. Or this years Miller trade. Or signing Eriksson. Or Myers. Or what ever the most popular cherry on top of Bennings time here. Benning could win GM of the year the next 3 years and deserve it and it won't even out for the previous five. He's gotta go. Doing Biega a solid is simply a non-factor to me compared to his other screw ups. People are still reacting to this like we traded an bluechip asset for a massive cap dump here.

 

[Nucker42]

One, LD and RD are different positions. I shouldn't have to say this.

Two, Biega was blocking exactly freaking nobody. Rafferty and Teves are complete unknowns at this point. Chatfield just plain sucks. Sautner, Brisebois and Juolevi are all lefties. Tell me what great depth the Canucks have in Utica.

Three, people were applauding Dubas for finding Leivo a new NHL home because he actually had players in-house to replace him, and he got more than a freaking ECHL player for him.

Four, if you're not capable of understanding the relative value of cheap, homegrown depth players who cost you nothing to acquire (like Benning) maybe it'll dawn on you when Tanev gets hurt, Myers gets destroyed in front-line shutdown duty, there's nobody competent to call up and Benning has to shell out more draft picks to replace the guy he just gave away for nothing of any use to the team. Or maybe you won't, I dunno.

Five, I know it's super-cool and popular for a certain segment of supposed Canucks fans to **** all over their fellow posters, but use some critical thought before posting.

Great post. In it of itself, not a huge loss when it comes to Biega. However, the Canucks got crushed on this deal which has become common place with Benning.

Beyond the unknown Rafferty the Canucks next best righty might be in junior still in Woo.

Would have been far more comfortable trading a lefty than a righty. The Canucks are one bad injury string away from turning to guys that have zero nhl experience.

 

[RandV]

Biega being dumped off the roster (unceremoniously) isn't a good move for the Canucks but there is a difference between moving a depth player to a team that he will play a role on (rightly or wrongly assuming previously acquired depth will cover the loss) and...the Sutter trade. Or Gudbranson trade. Or Garrison-2nd-Vey. Or not moving Hamhuis or Vrbata. Or this years Miller trade. Or signing Eriksson. Or Myers. Or what ever the most popular cherry on top of Bennings time here. Benning could win GM of the year the next 3 years and deserve it and it won't even out for the previous five. He's gotta go. Doing Biega a solid is simply a non-factor to me compared to his other screw ups. People are still reacting to this like we traded an bluechip asset for a massive cap dump here.

Depends on what the player thinks and we don't have that insight but personal I wouldn't really call it doing Biega a solid when the situation started with a kick in the balls by sending him to the minors.

The process issue here that will cause a divide in opinion is whether or not Canucks have the defensive depth to accommodate giving Biega away, a long time vet who's always been content sitting in the press box until injuries hit then provides serviceable bottom pairing defense - to some Canuck fans on here often playing better than the guys he's replacing (ex: Gudbranson). The guys on the farm right now I believe are: Juolevi, Chatfield, Teves, Rafferty, Brisebois, and Sautner. Benning and Green must think there's enough call up depth there for when injuries hit, with that list I'm sure would make fans of other teams jealous. Most Canuck fans on here having a problem with the trade though don't think there's anyone there cutout for it, so giving up Biega now probably means trading a draft pick for a new scrub dman later in the season when injuries hit.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

It's a different kind of **** up from when the idiot was hired. We have players Biega outplayed I agree and I'd say other guys outplayed him too. Benn has a different skill set then a few of the others and I don't know what the deal with Fantenberg is.

I don't see that take. Biega was with Utica the whole season before being called up...under Benning's leadership (for lack of a better term). I don't see him as a "Gillis guy". My take away is the same thing as what happened with Leivo. He paid his dues and wasn't in the future of the team. I feel Rafferty outplayed Biega who outplayed Fantenberg. We have options. Leivo was superfluous on the Leafs roster last year...and would have fit in perfectly with what they needed this off season (a cheap replacement level player).

Also Benning has had no problem moving "his" guys as well. Horvat Markstrom Edler and Tanev are a 1/5th of the overall roster. But this has also been 5 years. The Sedins and Malhotra retired. Kesler demanded a trade. Burrows Higgins Hamhuis Bieksa and Hansen all had their play fall off a cliff. I mean it's not like Benning has been entirely responsible the whole core being moved out. Miller and Vrbata were both let loose without any fan fare. Bonino Prust Dorsett Vey Gudbranson Dowd Leipsic Pouliot Gagner Spooner Nilsson Del Zotto Schenn and Dahlen have all been moved out or left to walk in free agency too. That is a lot of turn over but I don't see Biega being moved as an anti-Gillis move any more.

Biega being dumped off the roster (unceremoniously) isn't a good move for the Canucks but there is a difference between moving a depth player to a team that he will play a role on (rightly or wrongly assuming previously acquired depth will cover the loss) and...the Sutter trade. Or Gudbranson trade. Or Garrison-2nd-Vey. Or not moving Hamhuis or Vrbata. Or this years Miller trade. Or signing Eriksson. Or Myers. Or what ever the most popular cherry on top of Bennings time here. Benning could win GM of the year the next 3 years and deserve it and it won't even out for the previous five. He's gotta go. Doing Biega a solid is simply a non-factor to me compared to his other screw ups. People are still reacting to this like we traded an bluechip asset for a massive cap dump here.

Completely off topic but reading all those names just made me sad. I still miss pretty much all of them. Sure, the way Kesler handled his NTC was crappy but damn if I didn't miss his swagger.

 

[TCNorthstars]

I thought waivers claim order was by current win%? Did it change, if so how?

Until November 1, order is based on last seasons standings.

 

[Marcel]

One, LD and RD are different positions. I shouldn't have to say this.

Two, Biega was blocking exactly freaking nobody. Rafferty and Teves are complete unknowns at this point. Chatfield just plain sucks. Sautner, Brisebois and Juolevi are all lefties. Tell me what great depth the Canucks have in Utica.

Three, people were applauding Dubas for finding Leivo a new NHL home because he actually had players in-house to replace him, and he got more than a freaking ECHL player for him.

Four, if you're not capable of understanding the relative value of cheap, homegrown depth players who cost you nothing to acquire (like Benning) maybe it'll dawn on you when Tanev gets hurt, Myers gets destroyed in front-line shutdown duty, there's nobody competent to call up and Benning has to shell out more draft picks to replace the guy he just gave away for nothing of any use to the team. Or maybe you won't, I dunno.

Five, I know it's super-cool and popular for a certain segment of supposed Canucks fans to **** all over their fellow posters, but use some critical thought before posting.

Your irrational bias against this management group is obvious, so don't you think its an oxymoron to demand critical thinking before posting?

Biega is a 31 year old try hard depth defenceman who is creating the same embarrassing outcry from a minority of Canucks fans much like the Corrado situation a few years ago.

Biega has little impact on outcomes and was outplayed by some of those unknowns you referenced in camp, good on Benning to find him a team that might be able to give him some NHL minutes.

The selfish side of me wishes the team had kept him in Utica to mentor the kids.

 

[MaxDummy]

Kulak 2.0

 

[Guardian452]

5 pages for waiver fodder who I haven't heard of before the wings traded for him.

Relax guys.

If you go to the Canucks forum, you would think they traded away P.K. Subban or Erik Karlsson. And if you think this discussion has gotten out of hand, you should see the discussions about P.K.’s brother Jordan when he was a Canucks prospect. He never amounted to anything more than an AHL player with average offensive skills and absolutely no ability to play defence.

 

[tantalum]

Your irrational bias against this management group is obvious, so don't you think its an oxymoron to demand critical thinking before posting?

Biega is a 31 year old try hard depth defenceman who is creating the same embarrassing outcry from a minority of Canucks fans much like the Corrado situation a few years ago.

Biega has little impact on outcomes and was outplayed by some of those unknowns you referenced in camp, good on Benning to find him a team that might be able to give him some NHL minutes.

The selfish side of me wishes the team had kept him in Utica to mentor the kids.

I don't think the concern is irrational at all.

Biega has entered every season as the 7-8 guy...nothing has changed that. In that role he got ample NHL time so it's not really a move to get him ice because the last 4 years have told us that he will get that time in the NHL to the tune of 40 or so games. So that popular argument isn't a real one IMO.

So the argument becomes "well they are making room". As stated by others...making room for what? What many maybe don't understand, as they likely didn't watch much of the canucks camp/pre-season, is that those young guys showed exactly why they are NOT ready for the NHL. Most are far away from being able to handle any sort of regular shift in the NHL. They weren't ready a week ago and they aren't ready now. That doesn't mean they won't be ready 40 games from now but they aren't ready now if a D-man were to go down.

This is a management team that believes they can make the playoffs. To do that they will need competent blueline depth as they typically have 9 or 10 guys getting appreciable NHL game at that position. Well, I can tell you guys #8-10 as I write this are not NHL players. Not even part time ones. Put those guys in the lineup and you are going to be going with 5 D-men and giving them 6th spot and sheltered duty.

So what us irrational canuck fans find hard to understand is why wouldn't you keep Biega around for 40-50 games while those kids develop and show they can play top AHL minutes in competent fashion?...i.e. show they are ready to give the NHL a try. In the meantime Biega will get into games and get his ice unless they somehow stay healthy. Then move Biega to make room if you truly have guys showing they are ready. It's little to do with the return that causes people angst but rather the entire thought process and player evaluations behind the move. This management team has a horrid track record with pro scouting and appraisals. I think they are greatly inflating the quality of the farm blueline and this move will bite them...even though it does seem minor on the surface.

edit: Friedman has the canucks looking into acquiring Pysyk to replace Biega....

 

[ijuka]

TBH, I've thought Biega was good in the limited Canucks games I watched last season where he played in. David Pope seems like a nothing asset, so I think this is good for Detroit.

 

[Cogburn]

Completely off topic but reading all those names just made me sad. I still miss pretty much all of them. Sure, the way Kesler handled his NTC was crappy but damn if I didn't miss his swagger.

Hard to believe it's already been 8 years and some since they took us to the finals.

 

[Cogburn]

Depends on what the player thinks and we don't have that insight but personal I wouldn't really call it doing Biega a solid when the situation started with a kick in the balls by sending him to the minors.

The process issue here that will cause a divide in opinion is whether or not Canucks have the defensive depth to accommodate giving Biega away, a long time vet who's always been content sitting in the press box until injuries hit then provides serviceable bottom pairing defense - to some Canuck fans on here often playing better than the guys he's replacing (ex: Gudbranson). The guys on the farm right now I believe are: Juolevi, Chatfield, Teves, Rafferty, Brisebois, and Sautner. Benning and Green must think there's enough call up depth there for when injuries hit, with that list I'm sure would make fans of other teams jealous. Most Canuck fans on here having a problem with the trade though don't think there's anyone there cutout for it, so giving up Biega now probably means trading a draft pick for a new scrub dman later in the season when injuries hit.

We will burn that bridge when we get to it. I'm not a fan of Benning or his process. However saying this move, and many of his other moves lately follow "the same pattern", as other have put it, is bunk.

As for my contrived narrative of find him a place to play and contribute, I'm just reading the same information everyone else has. He played better that a guy who made the team in his spare D spot, and I feel others out played him for a call up spot given their better offensive or physical games. We found him a team that can use his skills, and I wish Biega all the best.

As for injuries, I think we have the depth to cover the inevitable injury bug. I'm not saying this as a brag, infact I think it weakens my position, but management and the coaching staff see it that way too. It stinks he's gone, but considering how man games he played for us, and how most fans have been howling about how bad our D was last year, I don't get the outrage.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

If the Canucks thoughtbBiega were a 6-7 D, he would still be on the Canucks.

Apparently, they did think that and they waived him. He cleared waivers. Remember?

Totally..the over reaction from some posters is ridiculous..Frankie Corrado all over again.

 

[Numba9]

Totally..the over reaction from some posters is ridiculous..Frankie Corrado all over again.

As a Canuck fan, it's getting a little embarrassing; like a drunk uncle at a wedding embarrassing.

 

[TeddyBare]

5 pages of comments over these guys????