GDT: DET @ TOR| 7:00pm EST | 3/24/18 | FS-D

[Lampedampe]

i know it's best for the team, but i have a hard time really celebrating a goal by an opposing team.

Key word here is best for the team.

For most of the season i've gone into most games i've watched hoping for a win. But with these last few games of the season with the standings being so close i can't help but to hope for a loss.'

It was a fun game to watch nonetheless though.

 

[Scott Malkinson]

Rooting for a tank is a lot more fun than cheering for your team when you subconsciously know your team isn't very good.

Good luck at the lottery.

I hope you guys get Rasmus Dahlin.

 

[Nut Upstrom]

Rooting for a tank is a lot more fun than cheering for your team when you subconsciously know your team isn't very good.

Good luck at the lottery.

I hope you guys get Rasmus Dahlin.

I'll disagree. Rooting for my team to tank and lose is not fun. It's easy to get excited about picking up a great player at the draft and I'm hoping for that, but it is not easy for me to want my team to lose under any circumstance.
I read all the posters in here waving their maple leaf pom-poms and it's disheartening.

It's sad to see such a great tradition of supportive fandom crash and burn like this. We've lost our winning culture.

 

[Hadoop]

I'd say rooting for the tank is easy when you don't watch them play. Unfortunately I got to see them on TV today and.... well losing is no fun.


That said mission accomplished today

 

[jkutswings]

I have zero problem watching a bad product while actively rooting against it, in order to facilitate change and boost draft stock.

Really, with where things are now, the only other option is apathy. Which is where I'd probably go if they end up extending Kenny, but for now it's easy to cheer for as high a pick as possible.

 

[Redder Winger]

I'll disagree. Rooting for my team to tank and lose is not fun. It's easy to get excited about picking up a great player at the draft and I'm hoping for that, but it is not easy for me to want my team to lose under any circumstance.
I read all the posters in here waving their maple leaf pom-poms and it's disheartening.

It's sad to see such a great tradition of supportive fandom crash and burn like this. We've lost our winning culture.

Well... if we ever get good before the Leafs implode, we can have good reason to hate them again.

 

[Amadeus]

Red Wings played well tonight. I think Jeff Blashill is the right coach for you guys!

Just need to keep adding talent.

 

[Nut Upstrom]

I have zero problem watching a bad product while actively rooting against it, in order to facilitate change and boost draft stock.

Really, with where things are now, the only other option is apathy. Which is where I'd probably go if they end up extending Kenny, but for now it's easy to cheer for as high a pick as possible.

Well that's great for you, I feel differently. I see that uniform on the ice and I want them to win, I guess there's a passion here that overrides that logical part of my mind that would be telling me "losing this game will increase our chances of a lottery pick by some minuscule amount, so go maple leafs!"

 

[Red Stanley]

I'll disagree. Rooting for my team to tank and lose is not fun. It's easy to get excited about picking up a great player at the draft and I'm hoping for that, but it is not easy for me to want my team to lose under any circumstance.
I read all the posters in here waving their maple leaf pom-poms and it's disheartening.

It's sad to see such a great tradition of supportive fandom crash and burn like this. We've lost our winning culture.

This is how I feel as well. Glad I missed most of tonight's game. Also glad Bert and Larks scored.

 

[jkutswings]

Well that's great for you, I feel differently. I see that uniform on the ice and I want them to win, I guess there's a passion here that overrides that logical part of my mind that would be telling me "losing this game will increase our chances of a lottery pick by some minuscule amount, so go maple leafs!"

Fair enough. From my perspective, the collective decision makers of this organization have killed the franchise I once loved, so there's not really anything left for me to cheer for. At least not until I see a plan that makes sense, and one or more fruits of those labors truly worth being excited about.

Otherwise it's just a lousy hockey team without any reason to hope, and I'm definitely not gonna waste my time on that.

 

[Scott Malkinson]

I'll disagree. Rooting for my team to tank and lose is not fun. It's easy to get excited about picking up a great player at the draft and I'm hoping for that, but it is not easy for me to want my team to lose under any circumstance.
I read all the posters in here waving their maple leaf pom-poms and it's disheartening.

It's sad to see such a great tradition of supportive fandom crash and burn like this. We've lost our winning culture.

When the alternative is cheering for your team to win meaningless games and draft 11th overall, instead of top 5, it becomes much easier to hope your team plays well but somehow manages to lose by a goal or two.

The Maple Leafs walked away with Matthews, Nylander and Marner. It set us up for maybe a decade.

It's possible to lose and be happy with the direction of the team.

 

[TatarTangle]

The decision makers haven't killed this organization. Being [once] one of the top teams for 20 years has, and with it, all the late 1st round draft picks.

Chicago is already on a downward spiral and that lasted all of eight years.

 

[Flowah]

The decision makers haven't killed this organization. Being [once] one of the top teams for 20 years has, and with it, all the late 1st round draft picks.

Chicago is already on a downward spiral and that lasted all of eight years.

Wasn't their starting goalie down for like... all season?

That'll do some of it.

Plus they're in the damn Central. I think any other division, with their starter, they are a bubble team at least.

 

[Red Stanley]

When the alternative is cheering for your team to win meaningless games and draft 11th overall, instead of top 5, it becomes much easier to hope your team plays well but somehow manages to lose by a goal or two.

The Maple Leafs walked away with Matthews, Nylander and Marner. It set us up for maybe a decade.

It's possible to lose and be happy with the direction of the team.

Well, the way we cheer, especially when not physically at the arena, has no effect on the scoreboard. With that in mind, cheering for a win, but being less upset to indifferent about the end result isn't illogical in any sense. #fallinfordahlin

 

[Scott Malkinson]

Well, the way we cheer, especially when not physically at the arena, has no effect on the scoreboard. With that in mind, cheering for a win, but being less upset to indifferent about the end result isn't illogical in any sense. #fallinfordahlin

We lost out on a top 3 pick because the team got hot with 10 or 15 games left in an absolutely disastrous season.

When that happens, you understand how valuable a well played regulation loss actually is.

 

[TatarTangle]

Wasn't their starting goalie down for like... all season?

That'll do some of it.

Plus they're in the damn Central. I think any other division, with their starter, they are a bubble team at least.

Crawford was, yea. But the way the media talks about them it seems like they are on the downswing, I can't say I pay any attention to them but I do have a buddy from Chicago I can talk to about it. Just seems the general consensus is that they're on their way down, could be wrong.

To expand on the previous post, as much as we all want to sit here and watch them win all the time, that doesn't happen. Or say management hasn't done X or Y. We can sit here and hoot and holler about all the bad contracts Holland has thrown out (which he absolutely has) but any Stanley Cup team is built through the draft now (as is common knowledge) and that's a luxury the Red Wings haven't had for a long time. Show me a GM and scouting staff that can build a Stanley Cup team through late 1st round draft picks and I'll show you a road without a pothole in Michigan

*edit* The highly humorous, and ironic, thing about all of this is that Holland has set the team up for future success through all the crap contracts

 

[Red Stanley]

We lost out on a top 3 pick because the team got hot with 10 or 15 games left in an absolutely disastrous season.

When that happens, you understand how valuable a well played regulation loss actually is.

Sure, but some random guy cheering from his couch for a win didn't make you lose the top 3 pick.

 

[theYman]

Are all those teams that much worse than us? Sens Habs Sabres all lost tonight too. We get to play them all this week though. Montreal twice. We can't screw this up.

 

[jkutswings]

Crawford was, yea. But the way the media talks about them it seems like they are on the downswing, I can't say I pay any attention to them but I do have a buddy from Chicago I can talk to about it. Just seems the general consensus is that they're on their way down, could be wrong.

To expand on the previous post, as much as we all want to sit here and watch them win all the time, that doesn't happen. Or say management hasn't done X or Y. We can sit here and hoot and holler about all the bad contracts Holland has thrown out (which he absolutely has) but any Stanley Cup team is built through the draft now (as is common knowledge) and that's a luxury the Red Wings haven't had for a long time. Show me a GM and scouting staff that can build a Stanley Cup team through late 1st round draft picks and I'll show you a road without a pothole in Michigan

The end was inevitable, and I have no problem with coming down the mountain.

It's the delusion that trying to place an anchor halfway down, and staying as close to that point as possible, for as long as possible, is somehow a noble goal. Striving to be average at all costs - while minimizing risk to the extent that it precludes any real chance at excellence - is something I could never support.

Go all in on reloading, or go all in on rebuilding, or you've gone all in on irrelevance.

But now the same horse is getting yet another post mortem thrashing. Yay tank.

 

[TatarTangle]

The end was inevitable, and I have no problem with coming down the mountain.

It's the delusion that trying to place an anchor halfway down, and staying as close to that point as possible, for as long as possible, is somehow a noble goal. Striving to be average at all costs - while minimizing risk to the extent that it precludes any real chance at excellence - is something I could never support.

Go all in on reloading, or go all in on rebuilding, or you've gone all in on irrelevance.

But now the same horse is getting yet another post mortem thrashing. Yay tank.

I agree, why I said 20 years as opposed to 25 years, writing was on the wall, but may I offer a different perspective?

You have to account for things we don't know about, aka the grey area. If you are Ken Holland and Mr. Illitch set your goal to the Red Wings making the playoffs no matter the cost, do you tell him to f*** off? Or do you try your best to meet the goals set by a man that has trusted you for a long, long time?

It's easy for stuff like that to black and white for us as fans, but not so much for those in power.

 

[jkutswings]

I agree, why I said 20 years as opposed to 25 years, writing was on the wall, but may I offer a different perspective?

You have to account for things we don't know about, aka the grey area. If you are Ken Holland and Mr. Illitch set your goal to the Red Wings making the playoffs no matter the cost, do you tell him to **** off? Or do you try your best to meet the goals set by a man that has trusted you for a long, long time?

It's easy for stuff like that to black and white for us as fans, but not so much for those in power.

If my boss mandates a goal that completely contradicts what I value, I quit my job and don't look back. It really is that simple, despite whatever financial or career ramifications that decision might entail.

And it's not like Ken Holland, circa 2014, would have been hurting for suitors if he had walked away. With the cache he still had, he could've said all the right things to smooth feathers, taken a leave of absence, then stepped into nearly any team of his choice.

So at an absolute minimum, he's been tolerant of a downright moronic approach by ownership. If not complicit.

So to Kenny - and, if ownership supports and/or requires that philosophy, to them as well - I say:

 

[Scott Malkinson]

Sure, but some random guy cheering from his couch for a win didn't make you lose the top 3 pick.

I'm not sure that's relevant.

I didn't say fans had a huge impact on the team performance but the fan base can and occasionslly does influence certain decisions. Toronto fans were at their wit's end by the time Shanahan got here and he felt free to blow it up. If fans demanded wins every night, despite the team having no realistic chance to compete, I doubt Shanahan would feel so free to trade assets and lose.

 

[Stephen]

Well that's great for you, I feel differently. I see that uniform on the ice and I want them to win, I guess there's a passion here that overrides that logical part of my mind that would be telling me "losing this game will increase our chances of a lottery pick by some minuscule amount, so go maple leafs!"

Having watched the Leafs tank for many years, I've had a lot of arguments with other Leafs fans who felt this way. But tanking is like watching an old broken down car fall apart in a Top Gear challenge more than cheering for hated rivals to beat your team so you can enjoy the process. And the satisfaction of watching your team come back to life to beat up on former tormentors, that's fun.

 

[TatarTangle]

If my boss mandates a goal that completely contradicts what I value, I quit my job and don't look back. It really is that simple, despite whatever financial or career ramifications that decision might entail.

And it's not like Ken Holland, circa 2014, would have been hurting for suitors if he had walked away. With the cache he still had, he could've said all the right things to smooth feathers, taken a leave of absence, then stepped into nearly any team of his choice.

So at an absolute minimum, he's been tolerant of a downright moronic approach by ownership. If not complicit.

So to Kenny - and, if ownership supports and/or requires that philosophy, to them as well - I say:

First thing first, I'm not trying to demean you, but your boss and you have nothing to do with my hypothetical.

Second, Ken Holland should have stepped down when Yzerman was offered the job. Probably works better for Yzerman, so good for him. He deserves the best.

Thirdly, what you call moronic, is what they call making money. It's been no secret that the only time the Red Wings make money is if they make the playoffs, and that's when it was Joe Louis Arena and the cost of running that dump probably wasn't that high compared to LCA. Can you imagine the electric bill now? Now add the Pistons. Now account for the even worse attendance they have.

It's unfortunate fans don't realize any professional sports organization is a business, and in any business, it's about making money. Not appeasing your fans' feelings. In fact, no more than 5-10 people actually care about your feelings.

But here's the thing about making the playoffs. It attracts the casual fan. The casual fan thinks if the Red Wings make the playoffs they have a chance to win it, after all, they've been good for how long? If they make the playoffs, all of a sudden I can charge A LOT more money for tickets. And all of a sudden I have supplemental income. Money I can invest, or give back to the community, or set aside for my family.

So now Chris Illitch is in a position to make a judgement on whether Ken Holland can successfully rebuild the team, and if he can, is he able to sustain the same profit he was able to give the great Mr. Illitch.

 

[TatarTangle]

FWIW the Leafs fans that are in here are pretty chill. I mean, eff you for stealing away Babcock. But blah blah blah some comment about how he wouldn't give AA or Mantha enough ice time either because he doesn't know what the hell he's doing. I *thought* I heard people talking crap about Marner earlier in the season? But it looks like the kid has 60something points, can any of you PM some details, please?​