Despres hit on Smid

[bohlmeister]

Really, Despres should have played the puck there. He had the better positioning on it. All he has to do is play Smid's stick and he has 2 Penguins there to support him for the outlet.

I am NEVER one to judge these hits too harshly, and usually I will blame the guy who puts himself in a bad position. I just think it was unnecessary.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

This is exactly the kind of stupid, predatory hit that needs to come out of the game if we want these guys to have brain cells left after age 30.

Crouched over or not, Smid was in a position where he HAD to make a play on the puck. What else was he supposed to do? Just ignore the hockey game and look for someone to take a run at?

Despres, being as close to the puck as he was, is obligated to to recognize 2 things:

1) Anyone that close to the puck is expected to make some sort of play on it (including himself).

2) He is responsible for respecting the safety of anyone nearby who is also in a position where they have to make a play.

So what does he choose to do? Skate around with his stick pointing up in the air, alter his course to line up a guy who's making a legitimate play on the puck, and hit that guy right in the head.

I don't think "keep your head up" applies here whatsoever. Smid was in a hockey stance making a hockey play, naturally his head is going to be low. The decision to hit him for no good reason was on Despres, and therefore the consequences of that hit (intentional or not) are his responsibility as well.

This post is such BS that I can't stop laughing.

Have you ever played competitive hockey? You think players have this much time to sit back and analyze the situation? This isn't a case of skating up behind a guy and seeing his numbers, then launching him into the boards.

Most players in Smid's position skate through the puck in that situation. I've come in from that angle on both sides of the puck countless times. Being in Smid's position, you know a defender is going to be on you quickly, and reaching for the puck has ALWAYS been a bad idea in that situation. It's hockey 101.

Coming from Despres angle your job is to eliminate the man coming around the boards. If the guy pulls up and reaches, that is on him. If you try to avoid a hit in that situation, you are going to tear up a knee or go head first into the boards.

Despres made a beautiful hit on a guy who bailed and didn't skate through the puck like you are coached to do. Next time, Smid will hopefully not put himself in a vulnerable position like that. It's something Letang used to do too often and he kept getting rocked, but he has finally gotten wise to the idea that reaching for pucks behind the goalline is asking for trouble.

 

[Number8]

Doesn't matter about positioning. He shifts his entire body weight from gliding to exploding upwards at moment of contact. Both skates are several inches off the ice. IMO he'll sit. If Smid were hurt bad he'd sit a lot too.

 

[KapG]

Skates come off the ice after initial impact IMO.

 

[Lexus]

Video of the hit with all camera angles included (both Sportsnet and ROOT Sports)


http://youtu.be/uI-n4gbNTjk

(video via: @HockeyWebCast on Twitter)

 

[KapG]

I see nothing wrong.

 

[smetana]

Good hit. No discipline to follow, as it should be.

And nine pages of rustled jimmies.

 

[tarheelhockey]

You think players have this much time to sit back and analyze the situation?

In this case, Despres had enough time and then some.

Here's where Smid dumped the puck in. Look at Despres' position. He can see the entire play developing and yes -- it's on HIM to be aware of how the play develops from this point forward and react accordingly.

Here's Despres looking over his shoulder to track Smid's speed and direction.

Note that by the time he approaches the corner, Despres is already coasting and making no effort to play the puck. He's already committed to making a hit on Smid, regardless of what Smid decides to do. It's now 100% on Despres to make sure that hit is clean and legal.

This is the position from which Despres engages the hit. Note that Smid hasn't even touched the puck yet. Also note that the time signatures show 2+ full seconds from the time Despres marked Smid until the time he began to throw the check. This wasn't a reflex hit -- he made an active decision to coast to a certain spot and then change direction so that he could catch Smid at an ideal angle. Again -- it is 100% Despres' responsibility to be sure that the hit is clean and legal.

There is no "accidentally" jumping into Smid's head at this point. There is no blaming Smid for playing the puck. Despres was in a position to do whatever he wanted to do there, so he assumed full responsibility for the consequences.

 

[penguins2946*]

Is Despres even having a hearing for this hit? Has the DoPS said anything about it yet?

 

[Frederick Stanley]

Is Despres even having a hearing for this hit? Has the DoPS said anything about it yet?

We've heard nothing so far.

 

[cpsman]

The argument that smid shouldn't lower his head is absolutely utter garbage

If you are going full speed into the boards you have to slow down. Guess what. You have to angle your skates / legs to do that. Smid actually did that to do what any hockey player is supposed to do: go for the puck. That angle makes him shorter. He didn't fall down or awkwardly move his head down.

Depres on the other hand only has a hit in mind and leaves his feet as he does so with his arm parallel to the ice and primary point of contact to the head.

Dirty hit IMO (not the dirtiest but should have at least been a penalty)

Disclosure: I'm an Oilers fan who likes smid, likes the Penguins, but hates the flames lol

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

In this case, Despres had enough time and then some.

Here's where Smid dumped the puck in. Look at Despres' position. He can see the entire play developing and yes -- it's on HIM to be aware of how the play develops from this point forward and react accordingly.

Here's Despres looking over his shoulder to track Smid's speed and direction.

Note that by the time he approaches the corner, Despres is already coasting and making no effort to play the puck. He's already committed to making a hit on Smid, regardless of what Smid decides to do. It's now 100% on Despres to make sure that hit is clean and legal.

This is the position from which Despres engages the hit. Note that Smid hasn't even touched the puck yet. Also note that the time signatures show 2+ full seconds from the time Despres marked Smid until the time he began to throw the check. This wasn't a reflex hit -- he made an active decision to coast to a certain spot and then change direction so that he could catch Smid at an ideal angle. Again -- it is 100% Despres' responsibility to be sure that the hit is clean and legal.

There is no "accidentally" jumping into Smid's head at this point. There is no blaming Smid for playing the puck. Despres was in a position to do whatever he wanted to do there, so he assumed full responsibility for the consequences.

You are arguing that Despres shouldn't have gone for that hit? Are you serious? This is hockey. You are taught to cut the man off in that situation as a blueliner. That's your job.

If a guy leans out to poke a puck, he is putting himself in a really bad position. Anyone who has played the game competitively knows it's a really bad idea to reach for pucks on dump ins when you have a guy coming at you from the circle. Again, it's hockey 101.

Despres was lining him up well before that like any smart, physical player would do. Smid ducked down a split second before Despres lit him up. At that point you try to pull up and risk blowing out your knee or try to avoid your target and go head first into the boards.

It's not Despres fault that Smid didn't skate though the puck and decided to try and avoid the hit by poking at it. As I said, Letang did that way too often and kept getting his bell rung. Now you don't see him doing it anymore. It's just not smart hockey.

 

[The Grim Reaper*]

I hope the league sends a message by not suspending Despres that these hits are legal, because they should be, like they always have been. Great hit!

 

[ss53mech]

In this case, Despres had enough time and then some.

Here's where Smid dumped the puck in. Look at Despres' position. He can see the entire play developing and yes -- it's on HIM to be aware of how the play develops from this point forward and react accordingly.

Here's Despres looking over his shoulder to track Smid's speed and direction.

Note that by the time he approaches the corner, Despres is already coasting and making no effort to play the puck. He's already committed to making a hit on Smid, regardless of what Smid decides to do. It's now 100% on Despres to make sure that hit is clean and legal.

This is the position from which Despres engages the hit. Note that Smid hasn't even touched the puck yet. Also note that the time signatures show 2+ full seconds from the time Despres marked Smid until the time he began to throw the check. This wasn't a reflex hit -- he made an active decision to coast to a certain spot and then change direction so that he could catch Smid at an ideal angle. Again -- it is 100% Despres' responsibility to be sure that the hit is clean and legal.

There is no "accidentally" jumping into Smid's head at this point. There is no blaming Smid for playing the puck. Despres was in a position to do whatever he wanted to do there, so he assumed full responsibility for the consequences.

What you've unwittingly done here is provide and accurate assesment of how much time Smid had as well. Anyone who has ever played knows that if you dump the puck below the goal line and the defender has a position to cut you off he is going to play the body 99/100. Did Despres have time to choose not to hit him? Yes. Did Smid have time to protect himself? Yes.

This nonsense about the context of the hit becoming 100% on Despres because of time is just that. Smid has every bit as much time to read/react to the play. He's in an even better position (Despres is in front of him before he turns along the boards) to prevent this play from going down the way it did.

To address the "he doesn't even attempt to play the puck" thing: I don't really know what to tell you. Defensemen almost never play the puck on a 50/50 play. Particularly when they have support. You engage the forward wether with a hit or just cutting him off at the puck, forwards come low in support, fish the puck out, move the puck out of the zone. This isn't a Pens thing, it's an NHL thing. Almost every team plays that scenario in the same way.

 

[crazyforhockey]

Neutral fan here

Smid put himself in a vulnerable postion ( to a degree )

Did not like the explosive movement of despres upward....clearly he was trying to put a huge HUGE hit....

Sure it s over in a blink of an eye......but despres needs to be answerable if the league decides to suspend him for a reckless hit (if he wasnt trying to make the crushing hit hit vs hard hit...he couldhave timed hit better or possible avoid hit to head )

 

[ss53mech]

Neutral fan here

Smid put himself in a vulnerable postion ( to a degree )

Did not like the explosive movement of despres upward....clearly he was trying to put a huge HUGE hit....

Sure it s over in a blink of an eye......but despres needs to be answerable if the league decides to suspend him for a reckless hit (if he wasnt trying to make the crushing hit hit vs hard hit...he couldhave timed hit better or possible avoid hit to head )

I'm sorry but I disagree. I think the only way to avoid contact with the head on this one is to go for the Kronwall esque butt first hit. Now, weather or not that's a viable play is probably debatable. I'm just saying that if the player making the hit in this scenario initiates contact facing Smid, with how far extended his head is, he is going to make direct contact with the head.

If he goes to his inside shoulder, it's driving him in to boards. If he goes for the outside shoulder he is going to catch a knee. Lining up center mass (from his angle) did direct him directly towards Smid's outstretched skull.

 

[BigEezyE22]

You are arguing that Despres shouldn't have gone for that hit? Are you serious? This is hockey. You are taught to cut the man off in that situation as a blueliner. That's your job.

If a guy leans out to poke a puck, he is putting himself in a really bad position. Anyone who has played the game competitively knows it's a really bad idea to reach for pucks on dump ins when you have a guy coming at you from the circle. Again, it's hockey 101.

Despres was lining him up well before that like any smart, physical player would do. Smid ducked down a split second before Despres lit him up. At that point you try to pull up and risk blowing out your knee or try to avoid your target and go head first into the boards.

It's not Despres fault that Smid didn't skate though the puck and decided to try and avoid the hit by poking at it. As I said, Letang did that way too often and kept getting his bell rung. Now you don't see him doing it anymore. It's just not smart hockey.

Come on. In tarheelhockey's universe, Pens aren't supposed to finish hits.

 

[WayneSid9987]

https://twitter.com/McEicheldotCom/status/543583219170287617

Maybe if Simon actually hit his head, the people wanting a suspension here would have a case.

He drove through his sternum. Head is secondary and this is WITH Smid putting himself in a vulnerable position.

 

[tarheelhockey]

You are arguing that Despres shouldn't have gone for that hit? Are you serious?

I am going to bullet point each statement from my previous post, verbatim, that addressed this issue of what Despres should or should not have done:


- He can see the entire play developing and yes -- it's on HIM to be aware of how the play develops from this point forward and react accordingly.

- It's now 100% on Despres to make sure that hit is clean and legal.

- Again -- it is 100% Despres' responsibility to be sure that the hit is clean and legal.

- Despres was in a position to do whatever he wanted to do there, so he assumed full responsibility for the consequences.


Hopefully it's clear now.

 

[The Macho King]

Come on. In tarheelhockey's universe, Pens aren't supposed to finish hits.

That's kind of what I see there. The whole "made no effort to play the puck" argument is clearly meant to prove something - but the defender is under no obligation to play the puck there.

It's an odd argument. Upon seeing the close up replay, I can even say Despres keeps his arm tucked well and even extends downward - which I wouldn't have even blamed him if he extended upward since it's such a natural reaction - no way you can say he was targeting the head.

 

[Rectify]

I am going to bullet point each statement from my previous post, verbatim, that addressed this issue of what Despres should or should not have done:


- He can see the entire play developing and yes -- it's on HIM to be aware of how the play develops from this point forward and react accordingly.

- It's now 100% on Despres to make sure that hit is clean and legal.

- Again -- it is 100% Despres' responsibility to be sure that the hit is clean and legal.

- Despres was in a position to do whatever he wanted to do there, so he assumed full responsibility for the consequences.


Hopefully it's clear now.

So it's on Despres to make sure Smid doesn't put himself in a bad position?

Maybe he could have shot him a text while he was going in for the hit, telling him not to bend over to poke at the puck.

 

[The Macho King]

I am going to bullet point each statement from my previous post, verbatim, that addressed this issue of what Despres should or should not have done:


- He can see the entire play developing and yes -- it's on HIM to be aware of how the play develops from this point forward and react accordingly.

- It's now 100% on Despres to make sure that hit is clean and legal.

- Again -- it is 100% Despres' responsibility to be sure that the hit is clean and legal.

- Despres was in a position to do whatever he wanted to do there, so he assumed full responsibility for the consequences.


Hopefully it's clear now.

Thanks for boiling it down like that, but that's not how it works. The hittee is never absolved of responsibility of putting himself in a vulnerable position. Until less than a second before impact, the hit Despres had lined up would have been clean. And anyone watching the play could see from the blue line that Despres was lining up a hit, as you so thankfully pointed out in great detail. Smid should have known he was going to get a chest full of shoulder and either not gone into the corner, or if he did, do so in a way that insures he doesn't lead with his head.

Basically: That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works.

 

[Anglesmith]

https://twitter.com/McEicheldotCom/status/543583219170287617

Maybe if Simon actually hit his head, the people wanting a suspension here would have a case.

He drove through his sternum. Head is secondary and this is WITH Smid putting himself in a vulnerable position.

Looking at that gif, it's clear that part of his arm hist the chest, and his shoulder hits the head. If it really is the part on the chest that is the "principal" point of contact, then it's elbowing. But clearly this is an arm-in shoulder check, so it is perfectly logical to look at where the shoulder made contact and ignore the fact that at the time of the hit, his elbow was at chest-level.

I think the important thing to remember is that when people say "headshot" they aren't saying "elbow to the head." You can hit a guy in the head with your shoulder and that's still illegal.

 

[The Macho King]

Looking at that gif, it's clear that part of his arm hist the chest, and his shoulder hits the head. If it really is the part on the chest that is the "principal" point of contact, then it's elbowing. But clearly this is an arm-in shoulder check, so it is perfectly logical to look at where the shoulder made contact and ignore the fact that at the time of the hit, his elbow was at chest-level.

I think the important thing to remember is that when people say "headshot" they aren't saying "elbow to the head." You can hit a guy in the head with your shoulder and that's still illegal.

True, but there has to be a targeting of the head. Answer this - if Smid was fully upright, would that hit have gone to his head?

Was Smid fully upright shortly before the hit?

The hit Despres lined up was a fully body check. The fact that it ended up being a headshot is not his fault.

 

[Anglesmith]

Thanks for boiling it down like that, but that's not how it works. The hittee is never absolved of responsibility of putting himself in a vulnerable position. Until less than a second before impact, the hit Despres had lined up would have been clean. And anyone watching the play could see from the blue line that Despres was lining up a hit, as you so thankfully pointed out in great detail. Smid should have known he was going to get a chest full of shoulder and either not gone into the corner, or if he did, do so in a way that insures he doesn't lead with his head.

Basically: That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works.

No, I completely disagree. If Smid hadn't played the puck, you're saying the hit that Despres had already engaged would have been clean? He would have been hitting a guy who never played the puck.

Smid's play on the puck was actually an attempt to protect himself. He was prepared for Despres to protect his ice and lay a hit if Smid went in full-force. This was why Smid was off-balance kind of leaning back. He stopped and reached in to chop the puck. What he didn't expect was for Despres to completely abandon the puck (prior to Smid playing it) and drive through him as he touched it. He was expecting Despres to at least contend for the loose puck which Despres had positioning on.