Confirmed with Link: Derek Grant obtained from Anaheim for Criscuolo + 4th

[Striiker]

I'd probably do 3 x 1.7, if he wants more than walk. I'm not in love with Grant as a player but I think Laughton is better at wing and could get us a late first or early second. If we are able to sign the college guys we should have enough depth to cover it.

Oh god no, I wouldn't do that. 3 years for a 30 year old 4th liner is not something I want any part of.

I'd rather just go with someone from the AHL or prospect pool.

 

[Asnito]

Oh god no, I wouldn't do that. 3 years for a 30 year old 4th liner is not something I want any part of.

I'd rather just go with someone from the AHL or prospect pool.

Fair enough. I'm not worried about the third year as I'm sure he could be dumped just like the Thompson was dumped on us.

 

[Deadpool8812]

Why???? We don't "need" them.

Giroux Couts Jake
Frost Hayes TK
JVR Patrick Farabee
Raffl Laughton NAK
Pimp(needs to clear waivers)


with possibly Lindblom to add later in the year.

Fair enough. Can't see Vorobyev as the 13th though. He doesn't have a future here. Wouldn't be surprised if he's traded this summer

 

[hmc1987]

Fair enough. Can't see Vorobyev as the 13th though. He doesn't have a future here. Wouldn't be surprised if he's traded this summer

NAK might very well be Mid 6 quality

 

[Jtown]

Why???? We don't "need" them.

Giroux Couts Jake
Frost Hayes TK
JVR Patrick Farabee
Raffl Laughton NAK
Pimp(needs to clear waivers)


with possibly Lindblom to add later in the year.

So many first round picks

 

[landsbergfan]

Why???? We don't "need" them.

Giroux Couts Jake
Frost Hayes TK
JVR Patrick Farabee
Raffl Laughton NAK
Pimp(needs to clear waivers)


with possibly Lindblom to add later in the year.

I don't think it is a situation where the Flyers would hold down the 13th spot for Vorobyev just because he is waiver exempt. Getting claimed on waivers at the beginning of the year is pretty rare now, so I think there is a spot for a 13th forward.

 

[flyersnorth]

So many first round picks

10 of 13 in that list are 1st rounders. Crazy.

Add Provorov, Sanheim, Niskanen.

The only forwards in that list that are not homegrown (I include Raffl as homegrown) are Jake and Hayes.

Nice.

 

[Curufinwe]

Fair enough. Can't see Vorobyev as the 13th though. He doesn't have a future here. Wouldn't be surprised if he's traded this summer

That's what they said about NAK.

 

[Deadpool8812]

That's what they said about NAK.

Sure, but just because it happened with him, doesn't mean it will happen with Vorobyev as well

 

[Tripod]

I don't think it is a situation where the Flyers would hold down the 13th spot for Vorobyev just because he is waiver exempt. Getting claimed on waivers at the beginning of the year is pretty rare now, so I think there is a spot for a 13th forward.

There could be...but their doesn't have to be.

Last summer, I said NAK should be the #13 forward and when he got a chance to play, would need to take advantage of it. Instead, we risked losing him so we could sign Stewart and we all saw how that all played out.

So keep Pimp as the #13 forward and see if he turns into a reliable #4C when an injury occurs. You slide Laughton up into the top 9 when an injury occurs and Pimp with Raffl and NAK should still be able to do well. And thru the year, if it's clear it isn't working, waive him and recall Bunny. So we HAVE options from within.

We don't "have" to sign a 4th line player in the offseason. Let our kids keep developing and push for spots. Hell, we might have guys like Laczynski and Allison added to the winger depth too.

With Couts, Hayes, Patrick, Frost, Laughton....then Pimp and Bunny...we just don't have a hole that NEEDS to be filled at C....or wing. We built up this pipeline, let's use it. Let the AHL kick fight for callups when an injury occurs.

 

[FLYguy3911]

I might have been the biggest NAK fan prior to this year and I think at the same point in their careers, Vorobyev is a better prospect.

Without being attached to Chris Stewart, I like his chances of at least being 4th line quality next year. I don't expect him to be penciled into a roster spot however.

 

[Starat327]

We've got so much depth in the pipeline somebody has to go and I'd rather get assets than let guys walk unless there's a significant difference in the quality of the player.

I dont have a problem with the idea at all. I just like making sure Stiz gets to see all Laughton related talk.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

The Vorobyev thing is just weird. Is it because he's Russian? Is it because he doesn't have an ability that smacks you in the face other than passing, which can be prone to severe crediting issues?

I'm not saying he's a world beater or anything, but he's going to stick at Center, the org thinks he's the best Phantom on the year, he's got a reasonable pedigree and production, and it's super common and becoming more so to just toss him out because of 192 Minutes of 5v5 time, 67 of which were with a torpid sloth.

If people said they thought he looked terrible and they're convinced he's an average 4th Liner at absolute best, it would at least feel like a hockey evaluation. But this is just lolKHL and there's no consideration of degrees. It's odd.

 

[Rebels57]

Why???? We don't "need" them.

Giroux Couts Jake
Frost Hayes TK
JVR Patrick Farabee
Raffl Laughton NAK
Pimp(needs to clear waivers)


with possibly Lindblom to add later in the year.

Pimp will not be on the Flyers roster next year. KHL is my guess.

 

[AdamParrot]

Grant is not bad. But I still more like Laughton, Raffl, NAK and Pitlick. He is still our best 11th F now when only Thompson is worse.

Raffl can play 4C, he is great bottom-six player. I think we dont need resign Grant still. Yes, he scored points, but else I think these others players from bottom-six are more dominant, better defensive players.

But we will see in playoffs what he will do.

 

[Tripod]

Pimp will not be on the Flyers roster next year. KHL is my guess.

Never know.

Maybe Fletch and AV learn from the NAK example and want him as the #13 forward to see if he can up his value.

And for Pimp, he saw all the kids get a chance this year, so who not give it another shot and if he gets waived, another team could pick him up.

 

[Rebels57]

Never know.

Maybe Fletch and AV learn from the NAK example and want him as the #13 forward to see if he can up his value.

And for Pimp, he saw all the kids get a chance this year, so who not give it another shot and if he gets waived, another team could pick him up.

Dont see it happening. Too deep at Center when healthy. He can stay in AHL if he wants but hes not gonna have a future as a Flyer. I always felt good about NAK and never felt good about Pimp.

 

[FLYguy3911]

But this is just lolKHL and there's no consideration of degrees. It's odd.

Right on cue.

 

[Tripod]

Dont see it happening. Too deep at Center when healthy. He can stay in AHL if he wants but hes not gonna have a future as a Flyer. I always felt good about NAK and never felt good about Pimp.

And if you look upwards, Flyguy had Pimp as the better player.

I don't get AHL games so rely on you all. He may not have a future with us just due to sheer competition. I was just doing the lineup based on who we have and who would have to clear waivers. And the bigger point was, we don't need to re-sign Grant and Pitlick to 2 million dollar contracts with all these kids lining up in the AHL.

I do expect a trade or 2 in the summer to thin the herd. Mind you if we are not going to sign our college and SHL kids, who knows.

 

[deadhead]

If people said they thought he looked terrible and they're convinced he's an average 4th Liner at absolute best, it would at least feel like a hockey evaluation. But this is just lolKHL and there's no consideration of degrees. It's odd.

My problem with Vorobyev is to me he's a bigger version of Weal, a 3C/4C tweener, lacks the skating and motor to be a good forechecker, isn't quite skilled enough to stick at 3C. And he's another LH shot.

Vorobyev just doesn't seem to have the snarl a guy his size needs to stick in the NHL, he's an average skater (Bunnaman is faster), his strength is his vision and passing on offense, but that vision doesn't translate to his play on defense, although he looks like a good PK guy. Looks so much better in the AHL than the NHL, but so did Varone.

Note: Bunnaman had 29 hits in 195 minutes, Vorobyev 4 hits in 209 minutes in the same role. Which one do you think will be an effective forechecker? Hits aren't the be all and end all, but that's a huge divergence in playing style.

 

[Striiker]

The Vorobyev thing is just weird. Is it because he's Russian? Is it because he doesn't have an ability that smacks you in the face other than passing, which can be prone to severe crediting issues?

I'm not saying he's a world beater or anything, but he's going to stick at Center, the org thinks he's the best Phantom on the year, he's got a reasonable pedigree and production, and it's super common and becoming more so to just toss him out because of 192 Minutes of 5v5 time, 67 of which were with a torpid sloth.

If people said they thought he looked terrible and they're convinced he's an average 4th Liner at absolute best, it would at least feel like a hockey evaluation. But this is just lolKHL and there's no consideration of degrees. It's odd.

I've always been a Vorobyev doubter. To be honest, I can't even tell you exactly why... it's not anything specific, just a general feeling I get when watching him. I'm just not impressed enough and I don't feel like he's going to be an NHLer on a consistent basis.

And this isn't new, I made these posts back in September of 2018...

I gotta admit, I’m not thrilled with the idea of Vorobyev starting at 3C...

He’s not horrible or anything, but I’ve personally always been kinda underwhelmed by him and don’t understand the current level of hype. Can’t really put my finger on it, but something makes me think he’d struggle pretty bad.

On a serious note, I’m going to stick to my previous thoughts on this one and say that, while he obviously has been impressive this preseason and definitely earned his spot, my stance on him hasn’t wildly changed.

Obviously we’ve been repeating this constantly as a warning before worrying about players who aren’t lighting it up, but it applies to players who are lighting it up too... it’s just preseason.

Maybe (probably) I was wrong about him before, but I’m not going to completely change my view of him based on this small sample.

Like I've said, I definitely like him and I don’t mean to be overly-critical, but I’m not yet convinced he’s going to be a great 3C just yet. It’d be too easy to say that he changed my mind now and just go with how good he’s looked recently, but I’m trying to keep in mind why I had this opinion of him before, based on a far larger sample size, and just trust my previous evaluation.

So I guess I’ll just be cautiously optimistic and hope for the best. Best case scenario is he makes me look stupid by being a monster this year.

If I had to put it into words, I guess kinda that I don't think he's good enough at any one thing to really cement himself into the lineup. He's not bad or unskilled, but I don't see enough scoring ability to be a scorer and not quite Raffl/Pitlick/NAK-enough to be successful on the 4th line. And I'm not even someone who believes in the style structure for lines, as if 4th liners need to be grinders. I want skill there, but I think it works best if it's more in the form of the three guys I mentioned.

But with all that said, even I agree that he hasn't been given a real shot in the NHL, so I don't use that as part of my opinion against him. I'm gonna say it for the 1 million time: teammates and usage matter... and he's had trash of both for the vast majority of his NHL time, so it's not a good snapshot of what he could do.

 

[deadhead]

"Fair shot" is overrated in the bottom six, you can see in a few shifts whether a player has the fire to succeed in that role, and in a higher role, whether he flashes enough skill.

That doesn't mean a player who shows those flashes is a lock, rather, if he's not showing those flashes on a regular basis, he's not NHL ready, if he gets a few shots to do so and doesn't show them, he'll probably never be NHL ready.

I mean how many shifts did you have to watch Farabee to know he was a NHL talent?

Vorobyev has had three shots at making the team, while poor linemates may reduce your "counting" stats, your relative metrics should be solid despite them if you're playing well. The eyeballs can see skating speed, quickness and agility, passing, forechecking, backchecking. Vorobyev simply doesn't stand out on NHL ice.

Where an extended trial is needed is to figure out just how good a player is and whether they are climbing the learning curve or have reached their career plateau.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Fair shot is a few shifts in the bottom 6, but 200 games and a worst in the league caliber 3rd pairing D may improve? That's where we are?

Again, I'm fine with not liking Vorobyev for hockey reasons. There's just some VERY weird rationale going around.

 

[deadhead]

Fair shot is a few shifts in the bottom 6, but 200 games and a 3rd pairing D may improve? That's where we are?

Hagg is serviceable, he's an inexpensive #6/#7.
Just look at some of the veteran scrubs who actually garnered draft picks at the TDL.

When you get to the bottom of NHL rosters, well, . . .

 

[GapToothedWonder]

I do think Vorobyev has enough offensive skill to stick in the bottom 6 if he had a plus motor. As it stands he doesn't have that, he is skilled and seems to have a decent IQ but not enough so to play at the NHL level with an average motor. But that is a mentality that can change very quickly for a player when they see the writing on the wall.

(This isn't me calling him lazy I think he plays as hard as most players do)