Dennis Cholowski signs a 3 year EL Contract

[ricky0034]

oh makes much more sense if he's just going to the CHL

guess things just weren't working out with St. Cloud State

 

[Run the Jewels]

I am not sure I am following the logic of your first paragraph. Is your point that it will be easier for him to gain significant ice time because he will have fewer physical limitations at that level? If it isn't, I don't get how intentionally playing against younger competition makes you more prepared for playing against the bigger stronger players you will face in pro hockey.

Yeah, it really doesn't work from a development standpoint by having him play against younger/weaker competition. College hockey has been great for developing d-men since you are going up against guys in their early 20s who are fully grown, not youngsters who are still physically immature. I can't say I fully understand the motivation, all I can say is having him play against weaker competition is a really bad sign.

 

[Vatican Roulette]

I am not sure I am following the logic of your first paragraph. Is your point that it will be easier for him to gain significant ice time because he will have fewer physical limitations at that level? If it isn't, I don't get how intentionally playing against younger competition makes you more prepared for playing against the bigger stronger players you will face in pro hockey.

I'm guessing the Wings(and maybe him) felt his offensive game would develop better in juniors.

Looking at PG's roster, they don't have that "it" guy going forward.

Maybe putting him that role will help?

 

[Reddwit]

I am not sure I am following the logic of your first paragraph. Is your point that it will be easier for him to gain significant ice time because he will have fewer physical limitations at that level? If it isn't, I don't get how intentionally playing against younger competition makes you more prepared for playing against the bigger stronger players you will face in pro hockey.

The "given his age and stature" comment only emphasizes the fact that he will be one of the more experienced players in the league and will also bear a more appropriate physique for the CHL, (which is a big reason he didn't get more time at SCSU).

There is absolutely no question that Cholowski, regardless of size, will see significantly more minutes a game in more important situations than he did at SCSU last year. That's a no-brainer. There is no question. His ultimate TOI/g last year for SCSU was probably 4th-5th among defenseman. He will be no worse than a "second pairing" defenseman at the CHL level who will most likely be deployed no less than 2nd most, if not emerging as the clear-cut #1 in time. There is no talk of "gaining" significant ice time. The second he's a part of the PG roster, he's going to see more ice time than he did in the NCAA. And I'm not talking about length of season, but per game.

 

[Reddwit]

Yeah, it really doesn't work from a development standpoint by having him play against younger/weaker competition. College hockey has been great for developing d-men since you are going up against guys in their early 20s who are fully grown, not youngsters who are still physically immature. I can't say I fully understand the motivation, all I can say is having him play against weaker competition is a really bad sign.

Oh yes it does.

Regardless of the fact that there are plenty out there (probably the majority) who would argue that the CHL (or at least the OHL and WHL) are better than the NCAA, its not at all about playing against "weaker" competition - its about playing time. SCSU is an organization that had their mini gold rush from a couple years ago and want a taste of that modest fame again. They're all about the hear-and-now right now. That is a terrible fit for a highly-skilled defenseman who needs physical time to mature.

Not sure what's so hard to understand about this move. Cholowski needs to learn how to play as a top pairing OFD, not learn how to fall in line with a hardy-minded organization prioritizing Ws over all else. He needs minutes, experience in a top role, and confidence as much as he needs time to physically mature.

It is absolutely, one-hundred times over, the right move to put him in the WHL next season.

 

[Mijatovic]

There is nothing in that article which suggests hes going back to the WHL.

 

[Shaman464]

Oh yes it does.

Regardless of the fact that there are plenty out there (probably the majority) who would argue that the CHL (or at least the OHL and WHL) are better than the NCAA, its not at all about playing against "weaker" competition - its about playing time. SCSU is an organization that had their mini gold rush from a couple years ago and want a taste of that modest fame again. They're all about the hear-and-now right now. That is a terrible fit for a highly-skilled defenseman who needs physical time to mature.

Not sure what's so hard to understand about this move. Cholowski needs to learn how to play as a top pairing OFD, not learn how to fall in line with a hardy-minded organization prioritizing Ws over all else. He needs minutes, experience in a top role, and confidence as much as he needs time to physically mature.

It is absolutely, one-hundred times over, the right move to put him in the WHL next season.

This is just wrong on the face of it. For players to about the age of 18 the CHL is great, but after that, usually if you're overage dominating the CHL is expected. It will objectively hurt him having to play there, because there is no drive for him to get bigger. Why bother? He's going to almost by default get a lot of minutes and probably quite a few points. In the NCAA at least there would be a drive for him to put on weight, and improve to increase his time and stats. It even is obvious in your own words: This kid wasn't going to be handed anything in at SCSU, he would have to be the best defenseman to play the best minutes. He clearly wasn't this year, and it seems instead of spending the summer training, he'd rather regress back to playing under 18s.

 

[mouser]

I wonder if they were not happy with the program he was in at St. Cloud and think he would be better developed in Grand Rapids? Can't really say I know much about about college hockey, but it seems odd that they would sign him now.

Would he even be able to play in the AHL? Or would he have to go to the CHL/ some other minor league? Not sure how that works here.

he could go to the AHL,the 20 year old thing is only a CHL thing that exists because the CHL negotiated it with the NHL

Most folks would assume he could play in the AHL because he wasn't drafted from the CHL. However we have a glaring article and situation that calls into question whether that's correct.

Jujhar Khaira was drafted by Edmonton in 2012 out of the BCHL, attended Michigan Tech for a year, and was then signed by the Oilers. Most media discussion assumed he could play in the AHL for 2013-14, however an article came out citing the GM of the WHL Everett Silvertips, who held his CHL rights, saying the CHL/NHL agreement applied to players drafted from Junior A as well. Thus Khaira was not eligible for the AHL--only options were the NHL or WHL.

That's what ultimately happened--Khaira was assigned to the WHL by Edmonton during training camp.


This year we have two players that seem to be in identical situations as Jujhar Khaira was: Tyson Jost and Cholowski. Hoping we'll get a confirmation of whether the CHL/NHL agreement does apply to BCHL players as their individual situations play out this fall.

 

[jaster]

Yeah, this doesn't make sense on the surface. There has to be more to the story.

 

[Wood Stick]

Grand Rapids doesn't make sense to me. You likely have Lashoff returning as captain, followed by Robbie Russo, VS, Filip Hronek, Dan Renouf, and Joe Hicketts. Sprinkle in some Conor Allen as well.

 

[PG Canuck]

I'm guessing the Wings(and maybe him) felt his offensive game would develop better in juniors.

Looking at PG's roster, they don't have that "it" guy going forward.

Maybe putting him that role will help?

He would definitely be that it guy on the back end. PG will be losing very key players this year after loading up and they will desperately need a player like Cholowski.

 

[theD86]

http://lastwordonsports.com/2016/05/11/dennis-cholowski-scouting-report-2016-nhl-draft-44/

 

[Pavels Dog]

Grand Rapids doesn't make sense to me. You likely have Lashoff returning as captain, followed by Robbie Russo, VS, Filip Hronek, Dan Renouf, and Joe Hicketts. Sprinkle in some Conor Allen as well.

I'm thinking Russo might be a full-time NHLer next season, and it's possible they like what they're seeing from Hronek so much that he might get fast-tracked too.

Or it might be as speculated, they want Cholo in the CHL playing bigger minutes.

 

[Frk It]

Grand Rapids doesn't make sense to me. You likely have Lashoff returning as captain, followed by Robbie Russo, VS, Filip Hronek, Dan Renouf, and Joe Hicketts. Sprinkle in some Conor Allen as well.

Saarijarvi will be there next year as well.

 

[Konnan511]

Maybe this is a confidence thing since in college you're playing against men while in the CHL you're playing against boys.

 

[wingsnut19]

Most folks would assume he could play in the AHL because he wasn't drafted from the CHL. However we have a glaring article and situation that calls into question whether that's correct.

Jujhar Khaira was drafted by Edmonton in 2012 out of the BCHL, attended Michigan Tech for a year, and was then signed by the Oilers. Most media discussion assumed he could play in the AHL for 2013-14, however an article came out citing the GM of the WHL Everett Silvertips, who held his CHL rights, saying the CHL/NHL agreement applied to players drafted from Junior A as well. Thus Khaira was not eligible for the AHL--only options were the NHL or WHL.

That's what ultimately happened--Khaira was assigned to the WHL by Edmonton during training camp.


This year we have two players that seem to be in identical situations as Jujhar Khaira was: Tyson Jost and Cholowski. Hoping we'll get a confirmation of whether the CHL/NHL agreement does apply to BCHL players as their individual situations play out this fall.

Thanks. I thought I remembered there being some confusion around this but couldn't think of the specific example.

 

[Ban Hammered]

Oh yes it does.

Regardless of the fact that there are plenty out there (probably the majority) who would argue that the CHL (or at least the OHL and WHL) are better than the NCAA, its not at all about playing against "weaker" competition - its about playing time. SCSU is an organization that had their mini gold rush from a couple years ago and want a taste of that modest fame again. They're all about the hear-and-now right now. That is a terrible fit for a highly-skilled defenseman who needs physical time to mature.

Not sure what's so hard to understand about this move. Cholowski needs to learn how to play as a top pairing OFD, not learn how to fall in line with a hardy-minded organization prioritizing Ws over all else. He needs minutes, experience in a top role, and confidence as much as he needs time to physically mature.

It is absolutely, one-hundred times over, the right move to put him in the WHL next season.

Your assessment of SCSU is so far off it's laughable. Please name me any hockey team that doesn't prioritize winning over all else. That's the point of the game is it not? You get what you earn with the Huskies and he earned a spot with our best dman for 30 out of 36 games. SCSU plays in the top conference in college hockey so he is facing top competition night in and night out. He was developing here and was learning how to be an offensive dman. Was he going to be "the guy"..no because we have guys who are currently better players than he is but he could have moved passed them.
We'll never know now and that to me is a shame but do not think that he wasn't developing here or that SCSU was trying to stifle him for the sake of winning. He was helping us win and growing as a player. The two are not and never will be mutually exclusive.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Your assessment of SCSU is so far off it's laughable. Please name me any hockey team that doesn't prioritize winning over all else. That's the point of the game is it not? You get what you earn with the Huskies and he earned a spot with our best dman for 30 out of 36 games. SCSU plays in the top conference in college hockey so he is facing top competition night in and night out. He was developing here and was learning how to be an offensive dman. Was he going to be "the guy"..no because we have guys who are currently better players than he is but he could have moved passed them.
We'll never know now and that to me is a shame but do not think that he wasn't developing here or that SCSU was trying to stifle him for the sake of winning. He was helping us win and growing as a player. The two are not and never will be mutually exclusive.

Really appreciate the input! What's your overall take on Cholowski as a player this season?

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Are more players coming from the chl or ncaa to the NHL?

The argument of men vs boys is mute if the competition is weaker, the skill is less and the professionalism isn't on par.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Your assessment of SCSU is so far off it's laughable. Please name me any hockey team that doesn't prioritize winning over all else. That's the point of the game is it not? You get what you earn with the Huskies and he earned a spot with our best dman for 30 out of 36 games. SCSU plays in the top conference in college hockey so he is facing top competition night in and night out. He was developing here and was learning how to be an offensive dman. Was he going to be "the guy"..no because we have guys who are currently better players than he is but he could have moved passed them.
We'll never know now and that to me is a shame but do not think that he wasn't developing here or that SCSU was trying to stifle him for the sake of winning. He was helping us win and growing as a player. The two are not and never will be mutually exclusive.

Great post. It's also worth keeping in mind the Wings have always defaulted to dropping a guy down to lower competition where he can play more minutes and it's no surprise our development has been mediocre over the past 15 years. A pretty decent number of the top point producing NHL d-men this season went the college route, if Cholo dominated I'd understand having him move on like Larkin did. Sadly that's not looking to be the case here, the Wings want him to drop down a level to get more ice time.

 

[Reddwit]

Your assessment of SCSU is so far off it's laughable.

The only thing laughable is that your sensitivity for defending your beloved team made your reading comprehension go haywire.

Please name me any hockey team that doesn't prioritize winning over all else. That's the point of the game is it not?

Of course it is. And please show me where I suggested SCSU wasn't or shouldn't be doing that? All I said was that SCSU had their "mini gold rush" - they were the #1 team in back-to-back years a couple years ago and that put them on the map for the greater hockey world in a way they weren't before.

Please name me any hockey team that doesn't feel the pressure to win more when the expectations are elevated. That's all I was getting at. And that environment is not the best for a kid whose physical immaturity is holding back his game at this level.

You get what you earn with the Huskies and he earned a spot with our best dman for 30 out of 36 games.

Of course you do. Wouldn't expect anything less from Motzko. Again, you're assuming criticism where there is none.

SCSU plays in the top conference in college hockey so he is facing top competition night in and night out. He was developing here and was learning how to be an offensive dman. Was he going to be "the guy"..no because we have guys who are currently better players than he is but he could have moved passed them.

That's exactly the point. He wasn't even close to being the guy. That says nothing about whether he deserved to be or not (he didn't), but the Wings need him to be that guy. Stop being so defensive about the SCSU program and realize this is about the Wings needs and not about SCSU's ability to develop talent.

We'll never know now and that to me is a shame but do not think that he wasn't developing here or that SCSU was trying to stifle him for the sake of winning. He was helping us win and growing as a player. The two are not and never will be mutually exclusive.

Where did I say he was being stifled? All I insinuated was that he's falling in line with the defense, getting lesser minutes and less experience, because he's not one of the go-to guys on the back-end and SCSU isn't going to promote him up the lineup simply because he has the best draft pedigree is likely the highest ceiling. What SCSU is going to do is going to prioritize Ws over his development in particular - that says nothing about their ability to develop players generally, but it does present a problem for the Wings and Cholowski. That's why SCSU (or any other NCAA team with a deep back-end) is a bad fit for him personally.

 

[Reddwit]

This is just wrong on the face of it. For players to about the age of 18 the CHL is great, but after that, usually if you're overage dominating the CHL is expected. It will objectively hurt him having to play there, because there is no drive for him to get bigger. Why bother? He's going to almost by default get a lot of minutes and probably quite a few points. In the NCAA at least there would be a drive for him to put on weight, and improve to increase his time and stats. It even is obvious in your own words: This kid wasn't going to be handed anything in at SCSU, he would have to be the best defenseman to play the best minutes. He clearly wasn't this year, and it seems instead of spending the summer training, he'd rather regress back to playing under 18s.

First of all, if Cholo goes to PG, he's going to be a top pairing guy and probably the #1PPQB with little competition. He'll get every chance to be that guy and he'll be a senior player. He'll get the chance to play the role of the guy we need him to be down the line and, more importantly, it buys him time to get bigger for the AHL.

Regarding the bolded: WTF, man. It will objectively hurt him playing there because of some ridiculous opinion you have? How in the hell is there no drive for Cholowski to get bigger if all he's experienced thus far is his size holding him back? The kid has developed a reputation for being a rinkrat and a hard worker...but you think he's going to lollygag around with his physical development just because he'll being doing well in the CHL? Sure. That makes sense. Screw actually making money in the pros - he'd rather be small and dominate the WHL.

Your whole post is a based off of some crazy theory that Cholowski will be content with his play at the CHL that he won't have any reason to improve. Yeah, I'm sure he won't even be thinking about everything he can do to turn himself into an NHL player as quick as possible.

 

[Reddwit]

Yeah, it really doesn't work from a development standpoint by having him play against younger/weaker competition. College hockey has been great for developing d-men since you are going up against guys in their early 20s who are fully grown, not youngsters who are still physically immature. I can't say I fully understand the motivation, all I can say is having him play against weaker competition is a really bad sign.

How is going to be facing the best of the WHL versus the secondaries of the NCAA. He's not necessarily going to be playing against weaker competition.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

The "given his age and stature" comment only emphasizes the fact that he will be one of the more experienced players in the league and will also bear a more appropriate physique for the CHL, (which is a big reason he didn't get more time at SCSU).

There is absolutely no question that Cholowski, regardless of size, will see significantly more minutes a game in more important situations than he did at SCSU last year. That's a no-brainer. There is no question. His ultimate TOI/g last year for SCSU was probably 4th-5th among defenseman. He will be no worse than a "second pairing" defenseman at the CHL level who will most likely be deployed no less than 2nd most, if not emerging as the clear-cut #1 in time. There is no talk of "gaining" significant ice time. The second he's a part of the PG roster, he's going to see more ice time than he did in the NCAA. And I'm not talking about length of season, but per game.

I agree that it is always better to be playing meaningful minutes and that if you aren't, a change is well worth considering. I will let people who closely follow SCSU hockey opine on his actual TOI and usage last year. His ice time struck me as reasonable when I watched him.

I will, however, say this. You get better as a player by playing and practicing against bigger, stronger, faster, better players that push you out of your comfort zone and force you to think and play faster. Mind you, this applies to all sorts of things in life. This is also why the CHL is so, so good for kids before and during their draft years. Sadly, that isn't Cholo.

I do trust the organization on this, but I also can't convince myself that this is necessarily a positive development. He should be fine this coming year, but I worry about the year after next.

 

[Ban Hammered]

How is going to be facing the best of the WHL versus the secondaries of the NCAA. He's not necessarily going to be playing against weaker competition.

He was playing with our Top D man for most of the season so he was not facing "secondaries" as often as you make it sound. We didn't have a 1st pair and a 2nd pair...we had 1A and 1B. We felt comfortable throwing Schuldt/Cholo or Borgen/ Ahcan out against anybody.
Also...while yeah he wasnt the guy...he was playing against and with better players in practice and that was making him better. If he is going to be the flat out number one in PG...who are the guys pushing him everyday in practice?
I just don't see how going from playing against older and in many cases larger and stronger players in the NCHC to being an automatic top guy facing at age or younger guys in the WHL is better for his development...but that's me.