Denis Savard/Montreal Canadiens Years

[Jim MacDonald]

Hey everyone!

Hope the weekend is going well so far.

I just got done watching the series recap of the 92 Adams Division Semifinals between the Whalers and Habs. It got me thinking I had seen on YouTube and many other places the general consensus from Canadien fans and the hockey world was that Savard's Canadien years were a disappointment. Can you guys educate me a little on this (if it is indeed accurate)? In that 92 semifinal he still looked like a whirling dervish to me, had 4 assists in game 2 I believe, and seemed to be on either the top line or 2nd line. Was there an injury derailment at some point? Did he just age badly one offseason and didn't look the same? Coaching utilization that didn't pan out? Look forward to the thoughts/knowledge/feedback as always!-Jim

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[Lukin1978]

I don’t remember much of his run in Montreal can’t help out in this one.

 

[FerrisRox]

Savard's time in Montreal was undoubtably a disappointment but a *huge* amount of the blame should fall at the feet of Pat Burns who spent the bulk of his time trying to change Savard into a different kind of player rather than building a system that could utilize a tremendous talent like Denis Savard.

To acquire Denis Savard and then try to mould him into a defensively conscious two-way player and to try to reign him in was just about the stupidest way he could have been handled, and yet, that's exactly what Pat Burns did.

 

[streitz]

He was getting older and they had other offensive weapons for the 92-93 season so they stuck Savard on a shutdown line with Carbo in the playoffs. He was a heavy smoker during his Hawks days and he was a little guy getting older.


He also wasn't a perimeter player and got his nose dirty with the Hawks, he went to like 5 or 6 conference finals because they were the only half decent team in the Snorris minus the wings for a couple years.

 

[GMR]

It didn't help that Chelios went on to be a great defenseman for the Blackhawks.

 

[Jim MacDonald]

Savard's time in Montreal was undoubtably a disappointment but a *huge* amount of the blame should fall at the feet of Pat Burns who spent the bulk of his time trying to change Savard into a different kind of player rather than building a system that could utilize a tremendous talent like Denis Savard.

To acquire Denis Savard and then try to mould him into a defensively conscious two-way player and to try to reign him in was just about the stupidest way he could have been handled, and yet, that's exactly what Pat Burns did.

A mind blower! Thanks Ferris! That's so weird Burns would want to make him a 2 way guy when you already have guys like Carbonneau and Mike Keane on the team....hmmm

 

[NyQuil]

I remember he shaved his mustache and had that Jofa helmet that looked like a massive head bandage.

EDIT: Just saw a pic with him without the 'stache and with the Jofa in a Blackhawks sweater. Must have been near the end of his tenure there.

 

[streitz]

A mind blower! Thanks Ferris! That's so weird Burns would want to make him a 2 way guy when you already have guys like Carbonneau and Mike Keane on the team....hmmm

He was made into a 2 day guy after Burns left.

In the 92 offseason the habs picked up Bellows and Damphousse, they didn't need Savard to score anymore.

 

[FerrisRox]

A mind blower! Thanks Ferris! That's so weird Burns would want to make him a 2 way guy when you already have guys like Carbonneau and Mike Keane on the team....hmmm

To be accurate - Burns wanted to make *everyone* a two way forward. What he did to Claude Lemieux and then to Sylvain Turgeon, who was acquired for Claude Lemieux, was such a waste of assets. Burns had zero interest in players that were one-way unless that one way was defensive.

 

[Iron Mike Sharpe]

Perhaps it was just part of a Habs tradition by that point: Jacques Lemaire shackled the offensive talents of Bobby Smith & Ryan Walter to make them into defensive forwards. Smith bounced back under Jean Perron, & the Canadiens won a Cup with Smith centring Mats Naslund. Walter never recovered his offensive game.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

EDIT: Just saw a pic with him without the 'stache and with the Jofa in a Blackhawks sweater. Must have been near the end of his tenure there.

i can just picture it now. second period just ended, hawks down by one. keenan barrels into the room with all the jittery bluster of chaplin in the great dictator.

"savarddd [hits the D extra hard for emphasis] if you want to play in the third, you go into the bathroom and shave off your moustache now"

[keenan rips the C right off savard's jersey, velcros it to his own moustache]

"i'm the captain now"

[kicks doug wilson in the nuts for no reason]

 

[NyQuil]

Perhaps it was just part of a Habs tradition by that point: Jacques Lemaire shackled the offensive talents of Bobby Smith & Ryan Walter to make them into defensive forwards. Smith bounced back under Jean Perron, & the Canadiens won a Cup with Smith centring Mats Naslund. Walter never recovered his offensive game.

Gainey, Carbonneau, Tremblay, it was definitely the culture of those 80s to early 90s Habs teams.

The most offensive guys they had were like Naslund and Russ Courtnall.

 

[The Panther]

It's all about the 80's porn-stache. Without it, he lost his mojo.

But seriously, he was still good with Montreal, but he was always getting injured and, as mentioned, the Pat Burns system. It was kind of sad how he didn't even play in the '93 Finals.

 

[Jim MacDonald]

It's all about the 80's porn-stache. Without it, he lost his mojo.

But seriously, he was still good with Montreal, but he was always getting injured and, as mentioned, the Pat Burns system. It was kind of sad how he didn't even play in the '93 Finals.

no stat pack about the stache on the hockey card? Maybe it's on the back?

 

[FerrisRox]

no stat pack about the stache on the hockey card? Maybe it's on the back?

From 1982 to 1989, O-Pee-Chee gave Savard's moustache it's own separate card.

 

[tony d]

He certainly had a great run with Chicago and was among the game's best in the 80's. Whatever happened to him in Montreal has to be a disappointment especially when you consider Chelios turned into an all time great defenseman with Chicago.

 

[Big Phil]

People always say, well, "What if Gretzky didn't have Sather?" Meaning, what if he didn't have a coach who let him be him. Well, Pat Burns is your answer. Savard might have been suffering from a bit of burn out too, but prior to him getting traded he had 80 points in 60 games and 22 points in the playoffs. So conventional wisdom is you allow this sort of player to do his thing. Burns didn't, and this is another reason why Burns could never last on a team. Smart coaches wouldn't do this, Sather didn't do this.

So it was a combination of sorts. They should have just let him do his thing. Montreal would have been better in my opinion.

 

[The Panther]

He certainly had a great run with Chicago and was among the game's best in the 80's. Whatever happened to him in Montreal has to be a disappointment especially when you consider Chelios turned into an all time great defenseman with Chicago.

This is sort of a retrospective thing. Chelios was already one of the best defensemen in the NHL with Montreal, and he didn't suddenly get better in Chicago. He'd already nearly won the Calder with the Habs, won the Norris, been a first-team All Star, and had a 19-point run to the Finals (and two of those runs, as well). He hadn't looked good in the '90 playoffs, however, and his abrasive personality might have been rubbing someone the wrong way; I can't remember (was his contract up then?).

The thing is, Savard was 29 then and Chelios 28. At the time, people thought they were both in their late primes and might have a few great seasons left. What we didn't know was that Savard was already done with his prime and that Chelios's prime would last until 2002.

 

[thewall]

If i remember correctly, Savard was the 1st Habs player in history to get a contract over 1 million per season.

 

[Jim MacDonald]

If i remember correctly, Savard was the 1st Habs player in history to get a contract over 1 million per season.

Wow! This is a bit of a mind-blower. Because I didn't become a fan until a bit later, I wonder if the Habs were well-known in hockey circles (maybe in particular the NHLPA) as being a bit "stingy" with the dollar?

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

If i remember correctly, Savard was the 1st Habs player in history to get a contract over 1 million per season.

according to capfriendly, roy and savard both made $1 million for the first time in their careers in the 1990-'91 season, with savard making around $40,000 more than roy.

i have a distinct memory of seeing a list of the ten highest salaries in a magazine that season. i'm pretty sure the last two or three guys were in the six figures; one of them was scott stevens.

let me try to reconstruct it, starting with the top five as listed by wikipedia:

1. Wayne Gretzky (Los Angeles Kings) $3 million
2. Mario Lemieux (Pittsburgh Penguins) $2.18 million
3. Steve Yzerman (Detroit Red Wings) $1.3 million
4. Ray Bourque (Boston Bruins) $1.194 million
5. Brett Hull (St. Louis Blues) $1.116 million

and from me searching the rest of the top ten off capfriendly's search function (so i might be missing a few players):

savard $1,084,625
roy $1,041,240
coffey $900,000
chelios $865,000
messier $834,727
stevens $775,000

but that was a weird time, when no one was really certain what anybody was making. i remember when stevens signed his st louis offer sheet, it was reported that he was the highest paid defenseman in the league, which i distinctly remember people because at the time people thought that was nuts. but according to these figures, he's only #4, behind bourque, coffey, and chelios. macinnis was "only" making $694,160, incidentally.

 

[Howie Hodge]

Does anyone remember "Les Trois Denis?"
Sadly I remember them because they are the same age as me...

Denis Savard, Denis Cyr and Denis Tremblay played on a line together with the Montreal Juniors in the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League. "Les Trois Denis" played together from youth hockey in Verdun, Quebec. They all lived just down the street from each other and were the best of friends. Even more amazing, all three were born on February 4th, 1961! What a crazy coincidence!

The trio scored 665 points from 1977 through 1979 in the "Q." Tremblay would be traded in 1980, ending the once-in-a-lifetime union. Savard and Cyr would continue to dominate the QMJHL, setting personal records without their friend by their side.

Savard, drafted 3rd overall in 1980, went on to become a Hockey Hall of Famer and Stanley Cup champion. He scored 539 career goals and 1,513 points in 1,365 regular season and playoff games combined. He also won a Stanley Cup with Montreal in 1993.

Cyr was drafted 13th overall also in 1980. He only played 193 games in the NHL, split with Calgary, Chicago and St. Louis. He scored 41 goals and totalled 84 points.

Tremblay was never drafted by the NHL and he never pursued professional hockey. He became a letter carrier for Canada Post.

Don't remember if Cyr and Tremblay had porn worthy mustaches, but at least now you know........ the rest of the story....

 

[The Panther]

If i remember correctly, Savard was the 1st Habs player in history to get a contract over 1 million per season.

Sure, but Maurice Richard got a free poutine as a signing bonus.

 

[Jim MacDonald]

I know I'm going to sound incredibly "American" here....but is Poutine simply fries with some type of delicious gravy?

 

[double5son10]

I always thought it was a shame that the Canadiens didn't resign Savard after his contract expired. He played fairly well in TB, finishing 3rd in scoring on a 2nd yr. expansion team, and after going back to Chicago he had that great playoffs in '95. Him walking away seems like part of Serge Savard's master plan to completely gut a Cup-winning team of every effective centreman they had in under three years.