Denis Potvin - Almost No Norris attention after age 25

[weaponomega]

I hadn't really thought about this or realized it, but when looking at Potvin's career, he doesn't have much Norris consideration after he last won the Norris in 1979 at age 25 and just before the Islander dynasty years. He did finish second in 1981 to a very dubious winner in Carlyle and 4th in 1984 as well as an 8th and 10th place finish and I know his competition during those years became very stiff with guys like Bourque, Coffey and Langway garnering a lot of votes, but I'm still surprised he didn't really get any consideration.

Any insight into why he didn't get many Norris votes after age 25?

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[ThreeLeftSkates]

He got less recognition than he deserved. The best 2 way d man of his generation.

 

[Sticks and Pucks]

I wouldn't say he didn't have much Norris consideration after 1979. The fact that he finished second and fourth two of those subsequent years is a sign that he got consideration. That being said, I think he may have been splitting votes with offensively gifted guys like Bourque and Coffey. They had sexier stats so they got more votes. I also find that playing on two types of teams makes it harder for a player to win an individual award: a non-playoff team or a stacked team. The Islanders were considered pretty stacked during their dynasty years which happened to be after 1979, the timeframe you're asking about. It's easy to be overlooked when you're playing with guys like Trottier and Bossy. People assume (whether right or not) that the players on these stacked teams have somewhat inflated stats because of who they're playing with.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I hadn't really thought about this or realized it, but when looking at Potvin's career, he doesn't have much Norris consideration after he last won the Norris in 1979 at age 25 and just before the Islander dynasty years. He did finish second in 1981 to a very dubious winner in Carlyle and 4th in 1984 as well as an 8th and 10th place finish and I know his competition during those years became very stiff with guys like Bourque, Coffey and Langway garnering a lot of votes, but I'm still surprised he didn't really get any consideration.

Any insight into why he didn't get many Norris votes after age 25?

79-80: only played 31 games
80-81: 2nd in Norris
81-82: 8th in Norris, only played 60 games
82-83: played 69 games
83-84: 4th in Norris

Only 82-83 looks weird.But more globally, Potvin was busy being the #1 defenseman and arguably player and captain of a dynasty and went to the SC Finals 5 years in a row in those exact 5 years mentioned above.Was finishing high in Norris voting the top priority? During a dynasty you have to manage your regular season.Think Crosby the last 2 years.

Potvin is also a rare defenseman to hit the ground running in the NHL.That, combined with the wear and tear of playing on a dynasty, makes his age an illusion.He had way more mileage at 30 than the typical defenseman.

 

[The Macho King]

How did he never win a Conn Smythe... especially in '81...

 

[streitz]

He got less recognition than he deserved.

No he didn't. Everyone knew how good he was, Orr and Robinson were simply better in the 70's.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

No he didn't. Everyone knew how good he was, Orr and Robinson were simply better in the 70's.

Once Orr's run was done, Potvin won 3 of the next 4 Norris trophies.

 

[The Macho King]

No he didn't. Everyone knew how good he was, Orr and Robinson were simply better in the 70's.

I dont think you can say Robinson was better... Potvin has a peak few have touched.

 

[MXD]

Larry Robinson was a lot of things, but Better than Denis Potvin during Potvin's peak wasn't one of them.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Fair to say that Potvin had better puck/technical skills than Robinson, right? That's what has appeared to me in my viewings of both...

 

[JackSlater]

I've always assumed that Potvin suffered in voting, at least in part, due to rubbing people the wrong way. Just seems like he was an abrasive guy. The emergence of Trottier and Bossy as all time greats on his own team couldn't have helped and I doubt that his stylistic change to being less puck dominant helped catch voters' attention. That said the only year he should have won the Norris but didn't was 1981. He probably should have won the Conn Smythe that year too but it didn't happen.

 

[Staniowski]

I've always assumed that Potvin suffered in voting, at least in part, due to rubbing people the wrong way. Just seems like he was an abrasive guy. The emergence of Trottier and Bossy as all time greats on his own team couldn't have helped and I doubt that his stylistic change to being less puck dominant helped catch voters' attention. That said the only year he should have won the Norris but didn't was 1981. He probably should have won the Conn Smythe that year too but it didn't happen.

Might have suffered a bit, although he had a pretty decent voting record for both the Norris and Hart. Injuries a factor too. Was abrasive, said something to the effect that he, not Orr, deserved to be named CC76 MVP. Some people agreed with Potvin. Nevertheless, they both played very well.
I agree Potvin was better than Robinson, but Big Bird was a great player too. Salming and Vasiliev also great in that same period.
Potvin was at his best in late 70s. Maybe the best player in the world for a time.

 

[The Panther]

I'd agree that only 1982-83 looks a bit odd in his Norris voting -- usually when the player misses 1/4 or more of the season, they don't win major awards (see: Gretzky in 1988, Jagr in 2000, etc.).

The other thing would have been NHL-culture of the time. The League changed a lot when the WHA teams entered in 1979. After that, it was a very youth-centred, offense-centred kind of culture for a while. So, as others mentioned, the sexier stats of a Bourque or Coffey (and yeah, Carlyle!) made them look better than Potvin to some (whether they actually were is more debatable).

 

[blogofmike]

Potvin's point totals declined as he took less of a PPQB role as Jonsson and Persson stepped up as well.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Fair to say that Potvin had better puck/technical skills than Robinson, right? That's what has appeared to me in my viewings of both...

Potvin was a defenceman from his start in youth hockey.

At times Larry Robinson showed that he was a forward thru junior hockey.

 

[streitz]

I dont think you can say Robinson was better... Potvin has a peak few have touched.

You realize Robinson was the #1 D man on a better dynasty right?

 

[The Macho King]

You realize Robinson was the #1 D man on a better dynasty right?

Well gosh I guess that means every Hab is better than every Islander.

 

[streitz]

Well gosh I guess that means every Hab is better than every Islander.

Not necessarily but you said "I dont think you can say Robinson was better".

Why not? Robinson was a better skater, he was a better play maker, he was bigger, he bad better hockey sense. Potvin had a better shot and was more physical.


For the record I rank Potvin as probably the 4th best D man I've ever seen, maybe 3rd.

 

[MXD]

You realize Robinson was the #1 D man on a better dynasty right?

A friendly tip : Don't come up with such an argument too often.

 

[sr edler]

He burned himself out, Toews style.

 

[Sentinel]

I think it was also a bit about regular season pacing. You don't go to the finals five times in a row without pacing yourself.

 

[tony d]

Didn't realize that. For me Potvin's one of the top 5-7 defensemen ever. Very surprising he didn't get all that much Norris attention after age 25.

 

[double5son10]

I think it was also a bit about regular season pacing. You don't go to the finals five times in a row without pacing yourself.

People sometimes forget that Potvin also drove the Islanders to the Semis in 4 of his first 6 seasons. 59 playoff games by the time he was 26. After his rookie season his teams never missed the playoffs. Other than the lamentable decision by the voters in '81 to award Carlyle the Norris most of Potvin's weak Norris record during the dynasty yrs. was due to injuries. I would agree that by the time of the '84 Finals Potvin was largely spent. Still a very good player, but the wear and tear showed. Still, even heading into his final season he was respected enough that he was offered a spot on the CC87 team, which he declined.

 

[Spirit of 67]

He got less recognition than he deserved. The best 2 way d man of his generation.

He makes my top pair all time. (with Lidstrom)

Sadly, the only 2 memories I have of seeing Orr play were as a Team Canada member and as a Hawk.
I withhold judgement on him since I was 10 the last time he played. A bit young.

 

[brachyrynchos]

I thought he had a hip or leg injury that slowed him down a little but I could be wrong (and that injury I think was later in his career). Norris attention or not he was always the Islanders top defenseman and one of the best and most respected in a league with Robinson, Langway, Bourque, Coffey amongst many others that were really good at the same time. His contributions and importance to Long Island didn't change.