Prospect Info: Denis Gurianov - 12th Overall Pick, 2015

Magic Mittens

Registered User
Nov 2, 2006
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Calgary
DG is looking like Nills worst first round pick. Makes it worse that he was a reach also


Nuke may still amount to something, assuming he comes back

Dickinson should at worst be a good third liner

Honka is only going to get better with more ice time

Tuffte is still progressing, but only time will tell

Otty, is the same with Tuffte

And of course Heiskanen. Only complaint I have about him is he isn't playing in the NHL yet :)
 

Benneguin

Original Recipe
May 26, 2015
1,608
477
DG is looking like Nills worst first round pick. Makes it worse that he was a reach also


Nuke may still amount to something, assuming he comes back

Dickinson should at worst be a good third liner

Honka is only going to get better with more ice time

Tuffte is still progressing, but only time will tell

Otty, is the same with Tuffte

And of course Heiskanen. Only complaint I have about him is he isn't playing in the NHL yet :)

Given our development track record, Heiskanen not playing over here is probably a good thing, just like it was with Klingberg.
 

northstars

Registered User
May 11, 2016
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54
Saskatchewan
Guryanov is a bust like other first round busts that came before him. They are Scott Glennie, Jack Campbell, Jamie Oleksiak, Ivan Vishnevskiy, Matt Niskanen, Mark Fistric, Martin Vagner, Jason Bacashihua, Richard Jackman and Jason Botterillto to name a few.

I included Matt Niskanen because he had to leave Dallas to find success.
 

FirstRowUpperDeck

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May 20, 2014
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Arlington, TX
I follow the CSB lists prior to the draft and do some research (although nothing like some here) and am always fascinated when a GM picks pretty far off the list. Obviously, each scouting dept. has to have their own list, team needs, etc. Of the busts, Niewy picked Glennie and JC much higher than ranked, and Jamie O and Faksa right about their CSB rank. Those two are still in the league, with Faksa living up to his promise.

Nill has picked off the list a few times, both the Russians, for instance. Of course, Nuke was rated high, but also a risk due to attitude and contract demands, which turned out to be true, at least in his first Stars run. I think Honka was picked near his rank, maybe a bit high, but he needed playmaking D. Tufte, etc. not so sure, but I think this year's crop were all picked right near their rankings, and have hopes they live up to their draft positions.

And yes, I know the overall bust rate is pretty high from the CSB rankings, too. But, always interesting to see a GM go against the group think. Someone could probably analyze some patterns of booms and busts on the reach.

I am going on memory, so I don't include the Gainey or Armstrong era picks. But, do recall Jarome Ignila was considered quite a reach, and he panned out, while Botterill, etc. were picked right near their rankings, and never did. Pre-Dallas, Gainey also reached for Doug Zmolek, who was ranked in the 50's, and he picked him 8th. But he traded him for Sydor, picked 7th a year later, so it all worked out.

Looking through the Dallas drafts over the years, it is fun to see 2-4 players make it from most years (measured in games played). Just, we don't have too many number ones producing for us, but I think they draft too much below average, looking at Hockey News stats.
 

tjcurrie

Registered User
Aug 4, 2010
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Gibbons, Alberta
I am going on memory, so I don't include the Gainey or Armstrong era picks. But, do recall Jarome Ignila was considered quite a reach, and he panned out, while Botterill, etc. were picked right near their rankings, and never did. Pre-Dallas, Gainey also reached for Doug Zmolek, who was ranked in the 50's, and he picked him 8th. But he traded him for Sydor, picked 7th a year later, so it all worked out.

Looking through the Dallas drafts over the years, it is fun to see 2-4 players make it from most years (measured in games played). Just, we don't have too many number ones producing for us, but I think they draft too much below average, looking at Hockey News stats.

If I can be a nitpicking arsehole...

Doug Zmolek was actually a Jack Ferreira Draft pick in 1989. Gainey wasn't hired until 1990, but that was as coach and not GM. Bobby Clarke was the new GM after Ferreira in 1990 - and was the one who hired Gainey to coach

Jarome Iginla I would say wasn't really a "reach". Not much of one anyways. The Hockey News had him ranked at 15, and I believe he was typically somewhere in the teens. I remember going to that Draft, learning all the prospects ahead of time, and knowing who he was and that he was somewhere in the realm of our possibility

Interesting some of the comments from scouts,

"Everything good, nothing outstanding."

"He's not likely ever going to be a star, but he has a good chance to be a player." (Well, they were right somewhat, had they capitalized "Star")

"Might be the sleeper of the first round."
 

FirstRowUpperDeck

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May 20, 2014
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I found the article you reference on the net, and there is not much else on the 1995 draft. One draft site had rankings for nearly every year, but 1995 was missing. So its hard to argue, despite my distinct memories that at least some had Jarome rated down in the 20s, maybe even 40's. Not sure why, because his WHL stats grew each year and were impressive.
 

tjcurrie

Registered User
Aug 4, 2010
3,930
143
Gibbons, Alberta
I found the article you reference on the net, and there is not much else on the 1995 draft. One draft site had rankings for nearly every year, but 1995 was missing. So its hard to argue, despite my distinct memories that at least some had Jarome rated down in the 20s, maybe even 40's. Not sure why, because his WHL stats grew each year and were impressive.

Quite possibly he was ranked 20th or so at some point. That actually sounds about right. I don't believe any lower. I have things from that Draft here as well as 1995 THN Draft Preview and all that. Part of me wants to go dig through and find it, the other part of me wants no part of it. Too much stuff. Indiana Jones would have a helluva time locating it.

I don't mean to say that you're wrong in saying he was a "reach", just that it wasn't by much. Again, I'm being a nitpicking arse, so forgive me. I haven't been on here in a while so I really just wanted someone to talk to.

I do remember I wanted us to draft Brad Church out of Prince Albert. He actually fell slightly to Washington. Big tough goal scoring winger. Kind of what Jarome actually turned out to be. I knew Brad's younger brother Jeff a little as he was part of a group of kids in Dauphin Manitoba we'd hangout with a little when my fam would make the drive from here in Alberta to my grandparents cottage at Dauphin Lake. Went to his house one day and Brad was there, actually a Modano/Stars fan himself, and gave me his awesome Stars block letter hat which I still have. So me wanting us to Draft him was a little bias. I'd say thank God we didn't take him as he turned out to be nothing, but had we been able to deal him off to Calgary the same way we did Iginla, I guess it'd be moot, other than the trade would look a heckuva lot better.
 

M88K

irreverent
May 24, 2014
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I won't quote your whole post, but Glennie was picked right around where he was ranked.
CSS had him 7th, we took him 8th
That pick should have been considered safe enough.
And if he had a sliver of work ethic, he could have been an NHL player
Guryanov is/was like the exact opposite, all work ethic and no skill
 

FirstRowUpperDeck

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May 20, 2014
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My recollection of Glennie was about 15th consensus, again with some variation. Most wondered how much his success centered on his more talented line mates. I could be wrong from memory again, but when selected (I was watching the first round) the announcers said "We have our first reach of the evening." And I recall JN's interview, seemingly conceding they drafted for position (and speed, which wasn't in question with Glennie)

When you mention character issues, I recall their pick of Ric Jackman. Played a few preseason games after the draft and seemed to look about like Klingberg, very smooth. Thought we had a keeper, but didn't turn out that way. I guess as fans, we never know. Heck, even the scouts don't know.
 

M88K

irreverent
May 24, 2014
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My recollection of Glennie was about 15th consensus, again with some variation. Most wondered how much his success centered on his more talented line mates. I could be wrong from memory again, but when selected (I was watching the first round) the announcers said "We have our first reach of the evening." And I recall JN's interview, seemingly conceding they drafted for position (and speed, which wasn't in question with Glennie)

When you mention character issues, I recall their pick of Ric Jackman. Played a few preseason games after the draft and seemed to look about like Klingberg, very smooth. Thought we had a keeper, but didn't turn out that way. I guess as fans, we never know. Heck, even the scouts don't know.
He got addicted to alcohol too if memory serves.
He was good in junior even when Schenn was out injured.
Most scouting services had him as a potential 1RW power forward.
 

FirstRowUpperDeck

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I didn't see him as a power forward, more of a small, speed/skill guy. Wasn't all that big. Either way, sad that alcohol or other problems derail such promising players. Sadder that the Stars didn't investigate him a bit better before selection. IIRC, an article a few years ago mentioned that he was a well known party boy even at the time of the draft.
 

FirstRowUpperDeck

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A highly skilled forward who intimidates with his speed and proficient puck handling ability, Denis Guryanov may have one of the highest ceilings as a forward prospect for the 2015 NHL Entry Draft. Very strong on his skates and uses his size to protect the puck well. Drives the net hard and knows where he will shoot before he is even in a position to do so. Possesses a heavy and accurate release on his shot, which he likes to get off near the faceoff dots; if he can't shoot from there, he will either dangle or bull his way through to the blue paint. While he is proactive and aware defensively, he still needs to work on consistency in his own end. All-in-all, a dynamic offensive threat that has room to grow defensively.

Well, this was his scouting report on Elite Prospects, so I guess Nill and company weren't totally off the charts, drafting for potential to be a play maker vs where he actually was in his development. He has had that bias, along with a Russian bias (maybe there should be an FBI investigation?) so DG may have been pre-ordained as the Stars pick that year. Only problem was, he never had even one big goal scoring year to back up the claim of potential, and still doesn't. Let's hope he is a slow developer and/or willing to make the transition to good checking forward with some ability to score. Maybe when Rouse leaves, he will be a good replacement, but not what you expect out of a mid to high first round pick (BTW, his consensus ranking was 27 at the time of the draft)
 

Kcb12345

Registered User
Jun 6, 2017
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Adam Cracknell had a hat-trick in the NHL once...

Difference is Gurianov is only 20 and has room to grow as well as way more expected potential than Cracknell ever had. Not saying he will be an amazing player and all, but comparing him to Cracknell is just wrong.
 

M88K

irreverent
May 24, 2014
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Difference is Gurianov is only 20 and has room to grow as well as way more expected potential than Cracknell ever had. Not saying he will be an amazing player and all, but comparing him to Cracknell is just wrong.
I don't know if it's wrong, a 20yr old that has shown nothing at pretty much every level getting a hat-trick in the AHL of all places is hardly worth getting excited about either.
He does have room to grow, because when you start damn near the bottom the only place to really go is up. I also don't know how wrong it is, at this point in time I hope he can turn into a Cracknell type player and have some success in the NHL vs going the way of Scott Glennie, which IMO he's a lot closer too than not.
 

Kcb12345

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Jun 6, 2017
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I don't know if it's wrong, a 20yr old that has shown nothing at pretty much every level getting a hat-trick in the AHL of all places is hardly worth getting excited about either.
He does have room to grow, because when you start damn near the bottom the only place to really go is up. I also don't know how wrong it is, at this point in time I hope he can turn into a Cracknell type player and have some success in the NHL vs going the way of Scott Glennie, which IMO he's a lot closer too than not.

He's a power forward. Would likely go the way of Brett Ritchie over Glennie. Needs more time to develop his game though since power forwards generally aren't NHL ready until around 22 in my opinion...just my opinion but still. He needs a chance in the NHL before we declare him a bust. Can't forgive Nill though for picking him over Barzal...
 

M88K

irreverent
May 24, 2014
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He's a power forward. Would likely go the way of Brett Ritchie over Glennie. Needs more time to develop his game though since power forwards generally aren't NHL ready until around 22 in my opinion...just my opinion but still. He needs a chance in the NHL before we declare him a bust. Can't forgive Nill though for picking him over Barzal...
Not really, If he was among the best players on the team and the team was shit you could say, yeah maybe he needs a chance, because he's got crap to work with down there.
With the way he plays though, he's unlikely to ever get a chance.
Brett Ritchie isn't someone I would compare him to as a beacon of hope either, Ritchie really shouldn't be in the NHL as a regular.
The last part, yeah, I don't necessarily fault Nill, I fault the scouting department for being complete trash, granted it is ran by MacDonnel which is Nill's guy, but Nill can only do what his scouting department says. Although if there ever was a time to go against them it was the time when anybody with a shred of common sense would have known to take Barzal and try for Guryanov in the 2nd round when he likely would have still been available. But it is done now, and all we can hope for is MacDonnel being canned(or Nill) along with some of their other scouts, because it is becoming clear that our prospects are going the way of Detroits drafting when they were running things... A bunch of spare part, role players and pluggers and no talent to speak of. Unless of course we get a gift Lotto win

there are 4 players from the 1st round of that draft that have played less NHL games than Guryanov, that's not a good measuring stick normally, but it tells you just how bad of a pick it was, they could have picked almost any other player and gotten NHL use out of them already.
 

BfantZ

Registered User
Jun 22, 2017
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That hatty was unreal though . He plays with a ton of speed , wich fits in well with Dallas and I wouldn’t be surprised if him and Hintz make the roster next year .
 
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M88K

irreverent
May 24, 2014
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That hatty was unreal though . He plays with a ton of speed , wich fits in well with Dallas and I wouldn’t be surprised if him and Hintz make the roster next year .
Hintz could see, Guryanov should at least be a top 6 player in Texas before we start talking about gifting him a spot in Dallas
 

BfantZ

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Jun 22, 2017
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Hintz could see, Guryanov should at least be a top 6 player in Texas before we start talking about gifting him a spot in Dallas
He should be playing top 6 right now . He playing mostly 3rd line because he doesn’t play the same as morin , Mackenzie etc. Hes a north south guy that can make it happen himself and believe it or not would probably do better with more skilled players in Dallas .
 
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M88K

irreverent
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He should be playing top 6 right now . He playing mostly 3rd line because he doesn’t play the same as morin , Mackenzie etc. Hes a north south guy that can make it happen himself and believe it or not would probably do better with more skilled players in Dallas .
So that's what we're going with now? He's so skilled that he struggles to produce at every level because he doesn't get to play with other skilled players? I think i've seen everything
 

BfantZ

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Jun 22, 2017
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So that's what we're going with now? He's so skilled that he struggles to produce at every level because he doesn't get to play with other skilled players? I think i've seen everything
I said nothing of that sort . And I don’t know what your talking about Struggles to produce at every level? He played in the khl as an 18 year old . They literally give you 2 shifts a game if your an 18 yr old rookie . Other than that he has always done well . He was awesome in the under 18s when playing against his age and awesome in world juniors when playing against his age . And to prove my point in this post and the one you quoted he put up 5 times as many points in the ahl as he did khl and the ahl is a better league . Who’s to say he can’t get more points in the nhl than in the ahl ? Lots of players do it .
 
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M88K

irreverent
May 24, 2014
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I said nothing of that sort . And I don’t know what your talking about Struggles to produce at every level? He played in the khl as an 18 year old . They literally give you 2 shifts a game if your an 18 yr old rookie . Other than that he has always done well . He was awesome in the under 18s when playing against his age and awesome in world juniors when playing against his age . And to prove my point in this post and the one you quoted he put up 5 times as many points in the ahl as he did khl and the ahl is a better league . Who’s to say he can’t get more points in the nhl than in the ahl ? Lots of players do it .
The AHL is not a better league to the KHL who are you kidding?
2shifts a game. So he spent 5mins on the ice per shift? Wow, perhaps that's why he sucked so much.
None of what you said is remotely true.
Grasping at straws.
I want him to be successful too, but you're delusional if you think he's done well anywhere but the MHL
 
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