Defensively: Brad Marchand vs Sean Couturier vs Jordan Staal vs Mark Stone
- Thread starter Bjornar Moxnes
- Start date
Mickey Marner
Registered User
I'm just voting based on who I think has the best chance at winning a Selke. I went with Staal.
bob27
Grzelcyk is a top pairing defenceman
- Apr 2, 2015
- 3,332
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He plays most short handed minutes, has most short handed goals by active player, has the best relative corsi. You could argue that Staal and Couturier are more valuable two-way players since they are centers, but there's no way he isn't the best two-way winger in the league. Certainly ahead of Stone, who doesn't even play PK. Nicklas Bäckström shouldn't be ahead of any of these guys though. The only reason people think he's there because Washington fans try to lobby some participation trophy for him.
Mickey Marner
Registered User
Marchand is a ~60CA/60 player away from Bergeron and a ~45 CA/60 with him. He is a great pk'er though.
Trap Jesus
Registered User
- Feb 13, 2012
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I love Marchand but he is nowhere close to Couturier and Staal defensively. These rankings have been abysmal IMO.
PatriceBergeronFan
Registered User
Don't have the data anymore since stats.hockeyanalysis went down, but from what I remember I think there's about a years worth of minutes apart since the '13 season that shows that dramatic disparity. Of course if it's over small samples each season it's possible most of the minutes are in specific situations that don't accurately reflect the normal variations of a season. Regardless, the Bergeron effect can't be ignored when it comes to Marchand's numbers.
CanadienShark
Registered User
- Dec 18, 2012
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Couturier. Plus why is Marchand here? Best player? Easily. Best defensively? Nah. Marchand is on a level with guys like Pavelski defensively. Really all those guys are on a similar level (except maybe Staal too), along with a myriad of others. The only clear cut guy here is Couturier. The rest are part of a big group of other great defensive (or two way) forwards.
Mickey Marner
Registered User
TOI| 5411.58 | 1642.6
GF | 276 | 67
GA | 67 | 60
GF%| 61.3 | 52.8
GF60 | 3.1 | 2.4
GA60 | 1.9 | 2.2
CF | 6180 | 1560
CA | 4154 | 1678
CF% | 59.8 | 48.2
CF60 | 68.5 | 57.0
CA60 | 46.1 | 61.3
PTS | 200 | 46
PTS60 | 2.22 | 1.68
2010-11 through 2016-17 at 5v5.
Just to muddle it even more... you do have to take into account who Marchand is playing with when he isn't playing with Bergeron and when. Early in his career, it was with 4th liners. Now, well, its usually just who is jumping off the ice for Bergeron before Marchand gets off. Marchand doesn't lineup with anyone but Bergeron for a face-off.
Marchand is certainly below Couts and Staal in this poll. Its really hard to compare wingers vs centers defensively, but if its close at all, you HAVE to go with the center. Marchand is, however, an ELITE PKer.
Spazkat
Registered User
- Feb 19, 2015
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People seem to assume that if the guy cant score he must be good on defense. Unfortunately they also believe the inverse of that... players that score a lot must suck at D
- May 22, 2008
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That's because the thread titles and poll questions have changes about a thousand times. It's been "best two-way forward" and "best defensive player" and now "defensively" who is the best. These are all different questions with different answers. If you look at the question as who is the best player out of this list of defensively strong guys, the answer is Marchand. If you look at it as which of these guys is the strongest purely on a defensive basis, it's Couturier.
NyQuil
Big F$&*in Q
I like Stone a great deal but his puck stealing heroics are really more of an offensive tool than a defensive one.
Certainly it helps change possession and keeps the puck far away from his own net, which is a defensive boon, but his play in his own zone isn't exceptional in my mind.
I'd say he's pretty average defensively for a top 6 forward.
I'm thinking Couturier here.
Certainly it helps change possession and keeps the puck far away from his own net, which is a defensive boon, but his play in his own zone isn't exceptional in my mind.
I'd say he's pretty average defensively for a top 6 forward.
I'm thinking Couturier here.
JackSlater
Registered User
- Apr 27, 2010
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I haven't paid attention to these polls before, but Couturier and Staal should have been off the board before some of the players that have already been selected.
edguy
Registered User
I am not exposed
Registered User
Bjornar Moxnes
Stem Rødt og Felix Unger Sörum
In every poll I say "Best defensive two-way forward" I'm probably not presenting it in the best and efficient way, but some people still mix up best two-way forward with best DEFENSIVE who also has good offense even if I clarify, so that's their problem.
- May 22, 2008
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What does "best defensive forward" mean, though? It could mean either "who is the forward that is best defensively?" or "who is the best forward that is good defensively?". Those are two different questions and you haven't clarified which you mean.
Huokaus
Registered User
- Oct 29, 2010
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How can you say that you say "Best defensive two-way forward" in every poll/thread when you didn't say that in the opening post of this very thread?
Bjornar Moxnes
Stem Rødt og Felix Unger Sörum
How can you say that you say "Best defensive two-way forward" in every poll/thread when you didn't say that in the opening post of this very thread?
Because the title should be self explanatory.
