Defense Group analysis

Discussion in 'Montreal Canadiens' started by rockjngo, Oct 18, 2013.

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  1. rockjngo

    rockjngo Registered User

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    Hi,

    PK:
    I want to point out that PK Subban is the best defenseman in the league right now. If he keeps up his play, there's no doubt another Norris Trophy for this year.

    Markov:
    At 34 years old, Markov is probably one of the most underrated defenseman in the league. This is the guy that made Souray, Streit, Komisarek like a top pairing dman and got them rich. Souray's career kinda went downhill after leaving MTL, so did Komisarek. Streit on the other hand cannot play defense, almost 2/3 of his points came from powerplay. I look at the upcoming UFA defense group and I don't see anyone with Markov's talent. Someone like Dan Boyle comes close but he's 5'10" 180lbs, 38 years old with a concussion. I think we need to resign Markov.

    Gorges:
    I hate how he skates, I don't like the way he moves, he's slow for his size however what Gorges does very well is play it safe. Like Markov, I think Gorges is very underrated. He knows the game and you rarely see Gorges make a mistake. I think at $3.9 mil, its a bargain at these days. He's like Ryan Mcdonagh when we stole him away from San Jose, not to mention we also stole Max Pacioretty with their pick.

    Emelin:
    Like Subban, Markov, and Gorges, I think Emelin cannot be replaced on this team. He's got size 6'2" 225lbs and throw open ice hits like Subban, and is a shutdown defenseman like Gorges. We need to give him a long term contract, he's awesome with Markov.

    I love these combo Subban-Gorges, Markov-Emelin.

    On the flip side

    Diaz:
    I think he's weak in the defensive zone. He can move the puck but I don't think he's a top 4 player. Players like Diaz are a dime a dozen on the free agent market. I see players who are bigger and better than Diaz. I think we should move him or let him walk in the summer to make room for Tinordi and Beaulieu.

    Boullion:
    Resigning Bou was a patch up for the time being, he won't be back at 39 years old.

    Drewiske:
    Easily expandable.

    Murray:
    Not the same player he once was.

    Tinordi:
    He's learning how fast the game is. Tinordi needs to be faster and more physical.

    Beaulieu:
    He's trying to keep up to the speed of the NHL. He tries to do things but this isn't junior or AHL.

    ----------------------------

    Personally I like our group, however, we are missing that veteran puck moving defenseman. Someone like a 32 year old Roman Hamrlik who could play with Tinordi/Beaulieu. I think Boullion is the wrong player to play with Tinordi/Beaulieu.
     
  2. dackelljuneaubulis02

    dackelljuneaubulis02 Registered User

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    adding Emelin to this corps improves it exponentially.

    I'll wait on judging Murray, he could very well solidify that bottom pairing and round out a very very solid D corps.
     
  3. DAChampion

    DAChampion Registered User

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    Tinordi and Beaulieu should improve at a similar rate to how Markov and Gorges decline.
     
  4. Monctonscout

    Monctonscout Monctonscout

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    I think Diaz is more suited to be a #5 than #4 ideally...but he's as underrated as Markov. Last night he was a big factor in the win and he plays big minutes. Obviously Emelin or Murray would be a better fit for him than Gorges but they are getting the job done...

    Last night: 23:41, 1 assist, +2, 5 blocked shots.

    For the season 7 GP 0-4-4 +3 and 21:24 min per game, 16 blocked shots already.

    I think people are so obsessed with his size and/or the fact that he doesn't try and knock guys into next week that they completely overlook all he does.

    Anybody saying Beaulieu is on the verge of replacing him is living on another planet. Beaulieu is at least 2 years from playing at that level.
     
  5. Monctonscout

    Monctonscout Monctonscout

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    Murray, the big advantage to him being there with everybody healthy is you can use him a lot in situations where he can be a force...PK, defensive zone draws and against big wingers that spend time in the crease. Also, having him and Emelin both in the lineup means opposing forwards will be a lot more hesitant to go wide or go in the corners.
     
  6. Runner77

    Runner77 **********************************************

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    Greg Pateryn may be in the equation. DLC citing Rawn Fournier:

    Speculative, at this point -- it is after all, Rawwwwwwwwwwwwwn Fournier. :)
     
  7. Habs

    Habs Registered User

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    Gorges is terrible, he is often out of position. I just snap when he has the puck in the offensive zone, knowing his patented 'Dump the puck into the corner instead of on net when you have possession' is coming. Watching him panic last night in the final minutes in the defensive zone was just amazing as usual.
     
  8. Rock On

    Rock On Registered User

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    But .... It can't be, he have the same rating Markov have in NHL 2014 :sarcasm:
     
  9. 25get

    25get Registered User

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    He is third in points and +/- (second is Markov with same points/+-), third in TOI (third on PP and second on PK), second in Blocked shots.

    Only problem is that he does not hit (3 hits - Markov has four).

    Coaching team seems to consider him as our third best d-men.
    Let's see if Murray will be ahead of him...
     
  10. Darth Joker

    Darth Joker Registered User

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    Subban-Gorges, and Emelin-Markov, should be an excellent Top 4 for us come the end of this season and all of next year (presuming we keep them, of course).

    After that, it depends on how Tinordi and Beaulieu develops. I think that Diaz is a decent bottom-pairing D when paired with a big, physical, stay-at-home D. So if Tinordi develops well, Diaz-Tinordi could be a good 3rd pairing. However, if Tinordi and Beaulieu both develop well, then Diaz becomes redundant and should be traded to address other team needs.

    I agree that Boullion shouldn't be back after this season. Drewiske is a decent depth guy but yes, he's expendable. If Tinordi disappoints, then it might be good to see if Diaz-Murray can work well. If Tinordi doesn't disappoint, then Murray either agrees to stay as a 7th D or we let him go at the end of the season, imo.

    On the whole, I think we have some nice options with this D corps, but it depends on players recovering from injuries, management resigning key players, and how key young guys develop.

    The biggest question marks are Emelin, Murray, and Tinordi. We need at least two of these guys to be good, tough, defensive defensemen for us by the end of the season. Otherwise, we will need to bring someone in. Subban, Markov, and Diaz/Beaulieu gives us good offense from the back-end. We don't need any more there, but we need to keep at least 3 good D for our PP.
     
  11. Our top 4 have been great, but our bottom pair is struggling. Tinordi and Boullion really don't have chemistry, they never see the same thing and it causes problems. Tinordi's been a bit of a disapointment after his beastly showing in preseason, but I think this experience is great for him, and he'll dominate once he's returned to Hamilton (which I think will happen once Murray returns). The main thing with him is he needs to not run around as much in his own zone and trust his positioning and length. He's still on schedule to be a regular come next season (as is Beaulieu).

    Diaz and Gorges are bouncing back and proving to be a good pairing. I think Gorges has been a great influence on Diaz, Diaz seems to really be battling out there, blocking shots and giving up his body for team puck possession. Markov-Subban and Gorges-Diaz aren't an ideal top 4, not a bruiser amongst them, but there is no denying their effectiveness at the moment. AT some point on ice results trump theory, and right now we are getting great play from a top 4 of Subban, Markov, Gorges, and Diaz. Emelin, Murray, and Tinordi all can be bruisers though, so hopefully 2 of them show themselves to be ready sooner than later, and mend out troublesome bottom pairing.

    Boullion at this point is a fringe regular. When everyone gets back healthy, he should move to the pressbox as the 7th D. SO ultimately I see it being, if healthy, come playoff time:


    Markov-Subban
    Gorges-Diaz
    Murray-Emelin
    7th:Boullion
    IR: Drewiskie
    Hamilton: Tinordi, Beaulieu.
     
  12. Jakomyte

    Jakomyte Registered User

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    In a perfect world, where the Habs are contenders, we could have something like this:

    Markov-Subban
    XXXX-YYYY
    Emelin-Diaz
    Gorges

    Since #3-#4 D-men don't grow on trees and cost $$$, I think I could live with this:

    Markov-Subban
    Emelin-Diaz
    Tinordi/Beaulieu/Murray/Bouillon-Gorges
     
  13. Habs

    Habs Registered User

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    Last night, my wife heard me yelling at the tv from the other room..she came in and said :

    'What's wrong did #26 dump the puck in the corner again'? :shakehead



    I'm like, 'beat it wifey' :madfire:
     
  14. If we're rippin it up big time come d-day and the rangers arein the ******* we should try to get girardi
     
  15. JLP

    JLP Refugee

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    Gorges is not "terrible" he's just not great at anything in particular. But yes that dump it in move infuriates me. On the bright side it seems he's been doing it less this year?
     
  16. Adriatic

    Adriatic Registered User

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    So he's a bad a skater, doesn't move well, soft and yet he's underrated?? I don't get that. If anything he's overrated. $4 million for a safe defenceman is too much. He's safe to the point where it hurts the team. He plays plays scared, scared to make a pass, to take a shot, scared to take a chance to make a play because he's so worried about not getting caught. I hate that and can't wait for our young defencemen to mature so he becomes expendable. Seeing him at the end of games trying to defend our crease is scary. Anytime he's defending in our zone he's in desperation mode, falling down trying to follow or cover players, his idea of breakout passes from our zone are slap shots on the boards. Anyways I can't stand him, in my book on a contending team he's strictly a #6 defenseman. He would not even crack the lineup of some of the contending teams right now, yet we play him in the last minute to defend leads. I understand we don't have anyone much better that's why I can't wait for our young kids to mature so he's out of the portrait.
     
  17. Habruti!

    Habruti! Registered User

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    Amen to that, you can also add the previous game to this. Diaz saved our but there to. I would like to see Emelin with him by December and see Georges with Tinnordi or Murray.
     
  18. Treb

    Treb Moderator

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    Next year:

    Markov - Subban
    No explanation needed.

    Emelin -Gorges
    Shutdown pair. Emelin is better on the left side and Gorges can play both.

    Tinordi - Diaz
    I keep Diaz because he's a cheap PMD for 2nd PP.

    Drewiske
    Because he's the perfect 7th D.

    Call-up : DFD Pateryn OFD Beaulieu
    Dark horse: Nygren
     
  19. Alexdaman

    Alexdaman Wolfman

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    Pateryn has got a terrific start to his ahl season. I think he deserves a shot on our roster. Whats important right now is results and beaulieu/tinordi isn't showing enough of it and a switch to the ahl may be for the best.
     
  20. dcyhabs

    dcyhabs Registered User

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    Maybe he has the puck less in the offensive zone? It sure seems like it's his only move. I think it shows well on corsi/fenwick, toss the puck around and let the forwards fight for it, positive offensive zone touch? He's effective on D and he's not as bad as Hal gill going the other way. Overall fairly solid but not a lot of fun to watch. And not as effective as he was before his knee surgery.
     
  21. Runner77

    Runner77 **********************************************

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    Which explains why Tinordi and Beaulieu are being used in alternance and in Tinordi's case, a linear drop in his ice time over his last 3 games:

    LINK

    Pretty clear wake up call -- considering Pateryn's performance, something will give.

    I'd much rather see both Tinordi and Beaulieu getting first pairing type minutes in the Hammer rather than not playing every game here and earning limited ice time when in the lineup.
     

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