Defend these hockey history scapegoats: Steve Smith and Tommy Salo

[Big Phil]

Think about explaining it in a way where you can find fault with so many other things that happened, or with other players, coaches, etc. Other underrated factors that went wrong that led up to Steve Smith being in the position to bank the series winning goal in off of Fuhr and Salo letting in that horrible goal against Belarus.

Be their defense lawyer, try and point out other things that factor into these crushing losses.

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[c9777666]

The Sweden/Belarus game was tied, so even if Salo doesn't give up that goal, it's not a foregone conclusion they win (considering Belarus' goalie kept them in it despite being outshot)

 

[Moose Head]

The greatest offense the NHL has ever known had almost 20 mins to score a goal and couldn't. All 20 players share responsibility for the Oilers loss.

 

[streitz]

Steve Smith was a puke anyways. One of the most undeserving players to ever play on such a dynasty.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Think about explaining it in a way where you can find fault with so many other things that happened, or with other players, coaches, etc. Other underrated factors that went wrong that led up to Steve Smith being in the position to bank the series winning goal in off of Fuhr and Salo letting in that horrible goal against Belarus.

Be their defense lawyer, try and point out other things that factor into these crushing losses.

Win as a team, lose as a team applies.

 

[reckoning]

The greatest offense the NHL has ever known had almost 20 mins to score a goal and couldn't.

As well as the fact that they had already lost to Calgary three times in that series.

If the Smith play doesn't happen, the Oilers still only have a 50/50 chance of winning the game. Then they'd still have to win two more series. It drives me crazy when some people act like it was a guaranteed Cup if not for that one mistake.

 

[The Panther]

Steve Smith shouldn't need any defending (but probably does) -- he had a fantastic career and was a winner!

-- 24 points in 55 games as a rookie, +28
-- After the '86 own-goal, Smith won three of the next four Stanley Cups. Then he won the 1991 Canada Cup. Then he was part of the top-two D (with Chelios) on the Blackhawks that went to the Finals in '92 and were 1st overall in '93.

I would say that from the '87 playoffs (on which he, not Coffey, was probably the Oilers' best defenceman) through the spring of 1993, Smith was likely one of the top-10 or 12 defencemen in the League.

 

[streitz]

Steve Smith shouldn't need any defending (but probably does) -- he had a fantastic career and was a winner!

-- 24 points in 55 games as a rookie, +28
-- After the '86 own-goal, Smith won three of the next four Stanley Cups. Then he won the 1991 Canada Cup. Then he was part of the top-two D (with Chelios) on the Blackhawks that went to the Finals in '92 and were 1st overall in '93.

I would say that from the '87 playoffs (on which he, not Coffey, was probably the Oilers' best defenceman) through the spring of 1993, Smith was likely one of the top-10 or 12 defencemen in the League.

Own goal aside he was an average defenseman.


My gripes with him are mostly due to him being fairly dirty and extremely cowardly when it came to answering the bell against anyone his size.

 

[The Panther]

Own goal aside he was an average defenseman.

I mean... average? Maybe his first two seasons, and again after 1993, he was average. But in his best six years (1987-1993), he did this:
-- 21st in total points among Dmen
-- 10th in plus/minus
-- 3 times Cup Finals (4 if count '87)
-- 2 Stanley Cups (3 if you count '87)
-- Canada Cup selection, winner
-- 5th in playoff scoring among Dmen, 1st in plus/minus

I mean, basically if you are a top-two defenceman on a Cup winner and then another 1st-overall team, you are above average by definition.

My gripes with him are mostly due to him being fairly dirty and extremely cowardly when it came to answering the bell against anyone his size.

Smith was not notably dirty by the standards of the time, and I remember him mixing it up with a lot of tough players. Not sure what you're thinking of.

 

[streitz]

-- 21st in total points among Dmen
-- 10th in plus/minus
-- 3 times Cup Finals (4 if count '87)
-- 2 Stanley Cups (3 if you count '87)
-- Canada Cup selection, winner
-- 5th in playoff scoring among Dmen, 1st in plus/minus

Yeah playing on the dynasty oilers will generally do that for you.


I wouldn't consider any of the dynasty Oilers D men other then Coffey more then average- above average.

Beukeboom/Muni/Fogolin/Lowe were decent defensive defenders
Huddy could move the puck but generally sucked at defending

Smith could do a bit of both, but I'd never consider him more then average.

Semenko has 2 cups but would anyone in their right mind take him over Probert? I have nothing against cement head but no GM in their right mind would take him over Probert.

As for the 91 Canada cup. Well this was a team that took 18 year old pre NHL Lindros over prime Yzerman. I wouldn't put a ton of stock into Keenan's choices. Thankfully the soviets sucked that year.

 

[Big Phil]

I'll elaborate a bit more on these two.

I think Salo you can blame a bit more than Smith. Not saying you blame him completely, but he did allow 3 goals to Belarus prior to that goal. He in total allowed 4 goals to a "B" team on 19 shots. This was the easiest semi-final I ever saw Canada play against Belarus. It was a foregone conclusion we were winning before the puck drop.

On the flip side, the Swedes fired 47 shots on Mezin and got just three goals. I guess if there is somewhat of a comparison it would be if Carey Price let a goal from outside of the blue line bounce off his head in 2014 in the Latvia quarterfinal game when the score is 1-1 in the 3rd period. That being said, a truly great team would bail out their goalie against a weak team like Belarus, and Sweden - with Sundin, Lidstrom, Alfredsson, Naslund, the Sedins, among others - never helped Salo with any support.

Smith is less to blame here. There was so much wrong with the Oilers in the spring of 1986 that this was more or less a cherry on top, not THE reason they lost. They were down 1-0, 2-1 and 3-2 in the series. They needed overtime in Game 2 just to tie the series. In Game 3 they got outshot 38-19 and lost 3-2. The greatest offense there ever was had 6 shots on net in the 3rd period that game. Then in Game 7 they were down 2-0, had to crawl back, and still had just 6 shots on net in the 3rd period, 24 overall. This is a team capable of dictating the pace of the game and they didn't.

I don't blame Fuhr at all on this one. At least not on this play. That is 90/10% in Smith. There was slight pressure with Lanny McDonald chasing Smith behind the net, but not enough to make a high risk pass in front of your net that banked in off your goalie. Should Fuhr have been more aware? Like I said, I give him 10% of the blame, that's it. A lot less than the Phillips/Emery debacle in 2007, because Emery gets a bit more blame than Fuhr, although that series was wrapped up either way.

 

[Eisen]

Think about explaining it in a way where you can find fault with so many other things that happened, or with other players, coaches, etc. Other underrated factors that went wrong that led up to Steve Smith being in the position to bank the series winning goal in off of Fuhr and Salo letting in that horrible goal against Belarus.

Be their defense lawyer, try and point out other things that factor into these crushing losses.

One soft goal is OK, goalies are human and mistakes happen. But that Swedish team didn't score enough against a team that was supposed to be fodder. I don't put the other goals on Salo but on uninspred play by Sweden and on Belarus clinging on to dear life.

 

[Spirit of 67]

I dunno, sometimes shit just happens.

 

[sr edler]

Markus Näslund and Michael Nylander had the chance to shine at the highest international tourny stage, with Forsberg out, and both laid a big veritable egg. Salo wasn’t even that bad in that game from what I remember, outside of the glove/jumping thing. I think Belarus scored one of their goals on a 5 on 3. The whole team just appeared to be somewhere else. One of Sundin/Alfredsson/Lidström probably should have taken the bull by its horn.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

For Steve Smith, its easier.

The big guns didnt show up in crunch time for the Oilers.

Games 5-7

Gretzky: 1-3-4, and no goals in games 6 and 7
Messier: 2-0-0
Coffey: 0-3-3, -2, 10 PIM


Really Messier is the one you should point to as the main reason the Oilers lost that series. He was god awful.

2-2-4, -3 in the series while taking 16 PIM

Sprinkle some bad Fuhr, 24 GA in the 7 games and Steve Smith gets pushed way down the list

 

[Eisen]

Markus Näslund and Michael Nylander had the chance to shine at the highest international tourny stage, with Forsberg out, and both laid a big veritable egg. Salo wasn’t even that bad in that game from what I remember, outside of the glove/jumping thing. I think Belarus scored one of their goals on a 5 on 3. The whole team just appeared to be somewhere else. One of Sundin/Alfredsson/Lidström probably should have taken the bull by its horn.

That's how I see it as well. It's easy to point at the blatant gaffe. But why not point to the lack of scoring or how you play a terrible pass that led to goal at your own blue line.

 

[DannyGallivan]

I don't blame Fuhr at all on this one. At least not on this play. That is 90/10% in Smith. There was slight pressure with Lanny McDonald chasing Smith behind the net, but not enough to make a high risk pass in front of your net that banked in off your goalie. Should Fuhr have been more aware? Like I said, I give him 10% of the blame, that's it.

I've always found the claim that Fuhr should share the blame on that goals as absolutely ridiculous. I might be able to side with your generous (to Steve Smith) allocation of 10 per cent blame to Fuhr, but I'm more likely to make it 1 per cent. It was a totally routine play that took place countless times throughout the season. There was no reason whatsoever for Fuhr to expect the totally unexpected.

Meanwhile, there was plenty of game left for the high-octane Oiler offense to tie and win the game. You can blame Gretzky, Messier, Coffey, Anderson, Kurri, etc. at least as much as Steve Smith.

And as far as Salo is concerned. Yeah, it's virtually all on him for that game. There are bad goals and then there are "stupid" bad goals. That was a stupid bad goal.

 

[Albatros]

And as far as Salo is concerned. Yeah, it's virtually all on him for that game. There are bad goals and then there are "stupid" bad goals. That was a stupid bad goal.

Was Öhlund's intercepted pass in his own end something else than a stupid bad goal then? What was the Hall of Famer Lidström pretending to do there with his pathetic stick work? Why hadn't he been blocking the shot that led to the shorthanded goal already? What was Jönsson's blatant hook all about when his team was already down by one man? Sundin witnessed several goals from the penalty box. All on Salo because his mistake made him look silly, right.

 

[Iron Mike Sharpe]

When the Smith goal happened, I felt so bad for him, because I anticipated that he would become the scapegoat - that the fans & media would destroy him, that the Oilers would put him in the doghouse & perhaps even trade him, that this was going to be a career killer... but none of that happened. He didn't actually become a scapegoat, fans, media & the team mostly recognized it for what it was, a freak accident - and that the Oilers should not have been in a position in which a freak accident completely sinks them.

Smith bounced back and won three Cups with the Oilers, and was arguably their best defender for a good five year stretch. Sather & the Oilers were a pretty class act not to blame him & give him a chance to reach his potential as a player.

 

[DannyGallivan]

Was Öhlund's intercepted pass in his own end something else than a stupid bad goal then? What was the Hall of Famer Lidström pretending to do there with his pathetic stick work? Why hadn't he been blocking the shot that led to the shorthanded goal already? What was Jönsson's blatant hook all about when his team was already down by one man? Sundin witnessed several goals from the penalty box. All on Salo because his mistake made him look silly, right.

We're talking about the shot that he tried to "head" and it went up and over him? Or even if it was unintentional, how many goalies lose sight of the puck from center ice? Either it's exceptional bad luck or a really dumb gaffe.

Yes, it's a team sport and there are a dozen mistakes throughout the game that can cost the game. Plus, you'd think that one goal shouldn't separate Sweden from Belarus anyways. Still, Salo deserves the goat horns at least a little more than 50 per cent. I mean, he couldn't just catch the puck?

 

[Doctor No]

Or even if it was unintentional, how many goalies lose sight of the puck from center ice?

Easy to do on high, long shots that have crowd as background (being higher up) instead of boards as background. Has happened to me in practice before.

 

[DannyGallivan]

Easy to do on high, long shots that have crowd as background (being higher up) instead of boards as background. Has happened to me in practice before.

When I first saw it, I thought he was hot-dogging a little and purposely tried to "head" the puck since it was such a long shot. After a fresh review, it does look like it caught him a little by surprise.That raises the possibility that he's the most unlucky goalie of all time (based on one shot). Since I don't really believe in luck per se, I'll just say that there's not way he shouldn't have had that one, especially in such a crucial game.

 

[Doctor No]

I'll just say that there's not way he shouldn't have had that one

I guarantee that he agrees.

(And I'm not saying that he wasn't trying to hot dog it, but I don't know a goalie that would purposely head a puck when they have time to do something otherwise. Even Hasek only did that as a last resort.)

 

[Canadiens1958]

Easy to do on high, long shots that have crowd as background (being higher up) instead of boards as background. Has happened to me in practice before.

Good to see that you are a "game" goalie. No one counts practice goals.

 

[Doctor No]

Good to see that you are a "game" goalie. No one counts practice goals.

No one comes to my games any more, so I don't have to worry about the crowd interfering with long shots.