Dear Stupid, I mean... Dear Kris Draper

[Bauerkraut]

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?ID=107330&hubName=nhl

"Doan wasn't the only player putting the blame on Bettman. Detroit Red Winigs forward Kris Draper spoke out against the commissioner after Tuesday's WorldStars practise in Toronto.

Draper insisted the players should not be on the hook to repair the damage done by Bettman and the owners.

''Bettman's plan was expansion,'' Draper told the Toronto Sun.''He brought in the Floridas and the Nashvillesof the world and now he wants the players to fix it.

''Well I don't think it's right he wants us to fix it.''​

Yeah Kris, and how many players wouldn't have NHL jobs at all without the Floridas and the Nashville's, and the Tampa's?!

I swear, this is another example where the players really look stupid in this thing.

The fact that most of these guys barely have a high school diploma is more obvious all the time.

What would you suggest Kris? That if the owners decided to correct their 'mistake' by eliminating these teams from the league, the players union would be happy losing all of those jobs? Apparently Draper thinks that if an NHL job doesn't pay multiple millions of dollars per season then it isn't worth having.

I guess I should give Draper the benefit of the doubt on the education thing. Maybe Lemieux did some brain damage when he boarded him into the bench face first.

I don't care if I ever see some of these idiots play again. I just wish there was decent minor league or college hockey in my area to catch an occasional live game. And playing is a lot more fun than watching anyway. I just feel bad for fans that love the game and don't have that option.

Click to read more...

 

[eye]

Draper should be grateful to Bettman and all the new ownership groups in the NHL becuase in a 16 team league and being a late bloomer he would most likely still be developing his game in the AHL earning 50 grand a year or been shipped off to Europe years ago. I wish these guys would shut the bleep up. Everyone of them acts like a puppet for Goodenow and Saskin and very few seem to have a mind of their own these days.

Anyone besides me believe that most if not all pro NHLPA posters on these threads are either players, player agents, related to players or are NHLPA execs? Players that speak out and posters that continue to ignore the facts on these boards are all starting to sound the same.

I'm sure some of you will come up with a real entlightning and mature response to this viewpoint of mine.

One last time. a luxury tax and redistribution of gross revenue between big market and small market teams does not solve the problems of the NHL. No TV deal and half empty arenas is a pretty good indication that something drastic needs to be done to fix what is broken. Owners have a right to run the show and fans have a right to a better on ice product at reduced prices. It's time the players appreciate and respect these facts.

 

[X8oD]

Draper should be grateful to Bettman and all the new ownership groups in the NHL becuase in a 16 team league and being a late bloomer he would most likely still be developing his game in the AHL earning 50 grand a year or been shipped off to Europe years ago.

Draper is a primere Defensive Foward and just won the Selke Award. He broke into the league when he was With winnepeg and was traded to Detroit for a Dollar. He never left Detroit's Major League Roster.

He had a job with or with out expansion. So thats not a valid slam. He wasnt a late bloomer, hes played this style of game for the past 6 years. This is the first year he got rewarded for it.

 

[eye]

Draper is a primere Defensive Foward and just won the Selke Award. He broke into the league when he was With winnepeg and was traded to Detroit for a Dollar. He never left Detroit's Major League Roster.

He had a job with or with out expansion. So thats not a valid slam. He wasnt a late bloomer, hes played this style of game for the past 6 years. This is the first year he got rewarded for it.

The Jets were also an added team to the NHL. No WHA then no Jets for Draper to develop his game. He is a great grinder 2 way player now but it hasnt always been that way. He should be grateful instead of critical of expansion.

 

[kenabnrmal]

Why are you posting here if you don't care to watch NHL hockey ever again? You people who buy into the rhetoric hook, line , and sinker sure are entertaining to read.

Misguided rage=fun readin'!!!

 

[mooseOAK*]

More teams, more jobs, more competition meaning higher salaries.

Yeah, the players have really suffered.

 

[Benji Frank]

What's wrong with what Draper said? He's right.

The players can't eat all the downscaling. If the owners want a 30 team NHL (and they must if they voted in favour of expansion) & a hard cap, they'd better decide amongst themselves how they're going to divvy up the revenues so the top grossing teams don't just become huge cash cows while the bottom grossing teams are now able to tread water instead of bleed red ink and the players from all 30 teams end up being the ones with the thinner wallets as a result.... a hard cap has to be set consid. higher then the 31 mill the owners haven't move off of yet. Somewhere along the way someone decided a franchise was worth 65 million US $$$'s and 9 business men bought into that. There was no TV contract back then either.....

The players have apparently put forth a proposal that will pass revenues from the large markets to the small markets and allow the small markets who probably currently can't afford even the 31 million dollar hard cap the owners want. With penalties from the teams rich enough to exceed the 40 mill, the unstable teams might now be able to approach the 30 million dollar mark without losing their shirt at season's end.....

 

[mudcrutch79]

Anyone besides me believe that most if not all pro NHLPA posters on these threads are either players, player agents, related to players or are NHLPA execs? Players that speak out and posters that continue to ignore the facts on these boards are all starting to sound the same.

I'm not any one of those things, and at this point I'm closer to the PA viewpoint than I am to the owners viewpoint. Rational, independent consideration led me to this viewpoint. Those who are staunch supporters of the owners seem to be hung up two things. 1) The Cup has been won, by and large, by teams with large payrolls for the past 10 years, and 2) My favourite team wasn't one of them.

When I hear people explain to me why a luxury tax is worse than a cap, I'll reconsider, but until then, I prefer the players proposals/ideas.

 

[Bauerkraut]

Why are you posting here if you don't care to watch NHL hockey ever again? You people who buy into the rhetoric hook, line , and sinker sure are entertaining to read.

Misguided rage=fun readin'!!!

Hey Kenabnrml,

How's your reading comprehension?

Could you please explain to us how "I don't care if I ever see some of these idiots play again" equates to 'I don't care to watch NHL hockey ever again.'

Thanks in advance for including that explanation in your next post.

I'd much prefer to see an NHL of players who are hungry and happy to play a game as a full time job, and to make a salary that will allow the league they play in and teams they play for to continue to operate. Even that salary will likely far exceed what 99% of these guys would make based upon their education or other marketable skills.

I'll be happy to watch an NHL with whatever players in it that fit that description. Would I feel cheated if that doesn't include Draper and Doan, or Yashin etc? No way.

 

[Brent Burns Beard]

Hey Kenabnrml,

How's your reading comprehension?

Could you please explain to us how "I don't care if I ever see some of these idiots play again" equates to 'I don't care to watch NHL hockey ever again.'

Thanks in advance for including that explanation in your next post.

I'd much prefer to see an NHL of players who are hungry and happy to play a game as a full time job, and to make a salary that will allow the league they play in and teams they play for to continue to operate. Even that salary will likely far exceed what 99% of these guys would make based upon their education or other marketable skills.

I'll be happy to watch an NHL with whatever players in it that fit that description. Would I feel cheated if that doesn't include Draper and Doan, or Yashin etc? No way.

so then you would support your team if they told their superstar they will not meet his demands and the team either makes him sit out or trades him ?

so, if you support this, why dont the owners just do it ?

dr

 

[Bauerkraut]

What's wrong with what Draper said? He's right.

The players can't eat all the downscaling.

I don't know of any industry in the free world where the employees don't eat all of the downscaling. If your company is losing money, expenses get cut, which generally means employees and benefits get cut.

It would be a lot easier to be sympathetic to players if the majority of them were barely making a living wage, but obviously they are.

The owners want to have a plan that brings them what they feel is a reasonable annual return on a multi-million dollar investment. If they can't get that under the current system there's no point in owning a team unless it's just a hobby they like to throw cash away on.

The owners want a salary structure based upon a percentage of league revenues which guarantees that everyone makes some coin. And there is always the avenue of a lawsuit if the league is found to be misreporting/hiding revenue.

I don't see the owners plan as unfair at all, especially when we are talking the kinds of figures we are for what that percentage of revenues amounts to.

 

[Bauerkraut]

so then you would support your team if they told their superstar they will not meet his demands and the team either makes him sit out or trades him ?

so, if you support this, why dont the owners just do it ?

dr

I can't tell you why they don't in some instances as I'm not there, sometimes they do let people walk. I would guess there are a lot of factors. Concerns over fan loyalty, season ticket sales, projections that signing that player may mean extra revenue to justify the cost, which then may not pan out, worries that if we don't sign him the av's (for example) will, and we won't make the playoffs in our conference if they get better, just plain dumb decisions, I don't know.

Basically you can think of lot's of reasons, it's a real crap shoot as you are weighing a bunch of factors in those decisions, and sometimes you are bound to be wrong. Major problem, NHL teams don't have the option of cutting a guy when they are wrong, they are liable for the whole contract. At the same time, players that are signed will sit out when they don't like what they signed. You can't make them play so you are stuck.

To me, all the risk on contracts is currently with the owners.

 

[PecaFan]

What's wrong with what Draper said? He's right.

He's not right at all. Expansion has created 180 NHL jobs, many more minor league and prospect contracts, has brought in much larger league revenues, which has been a key factor in driving all players salaries massively upwards.

Players have massively benefitted from expansion, yet keep decrying it.

 

[me2]

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?ID=107330&hubName=nhl

"Doan wasn't the only player putting the blame on Bettman. Detroit Red Winigs forward Kris Draper spoke out against the commissioner after Tuesday's WorldStars practise in Toronto.

Draper insisted the players should not be on the hook to repair the damage done by Bettman and the owners.

''Bettman's plan was expansion,'' Draper told the Toronto Sun.''He brought in the Floridas and the Nashvillesof the world and now he wants the players to fix it.

''Well I don't think it's right he wants us to fix it.''​

Yeah Kris, and how many players wouldn't have NHL jobs at all without the Floridas and the Nashville's, and the Tampa's?!

I swear, this is another example where the players really look stupid in this thing.

The fact that most of these guys barely have a high school diploma is more obvious all the time.

What would you suggest Kris? That if the owners decided to correct their 'mistake' by eliminating these teams from the league, the players union would be happy losing all of those jobs? Apparently Draper thinks that if an NHL job doesn't pay multiple millions of dollars per season then it isn't worth having.

I guess I should give Draper the benefit of the doubt on the education thing. Maybe Lemieux did some brain damage when he boarded him into the bench face first.

I don't care if I ever see some of these idiots play again. I just wish there was decent minor league or college hockey in my area to catch an occasional live game. And playing is a lot more fun than watching anyway. I just feel bad for fans that love the game and don't have that option.

How exactly are the owners supposed to fix it by lowering payroll without the players bearing the brunt. The players have been the ones to benefit the most, they are just giving up their overpayments and returning to a normal salary.

Even the NHLPA 75% luxury tax is seriously going to hurt the players wages, especially on megadollar teams like Draper's wings. I guess the linkage goes over his head.

As for expansion, its been a significant driver in Draper's pay rises. But no its bad? I guess that linkage goes over his head too.

 

[Buffaloed]

This is the first year he got rewarded for it.

I wouldn't say that. Draper's
Total fortune accumulated from 1989 to 2004 is $8,410,854. He's done very well under the current economic system and his loyalty to the NHLPA is well placed.

Draper insisted the players should not be on the hook to repair the damage done by Bettman and the owners.

It won't be put on ALL the player's backs. The stars will still get the big bucks. It's the guys like Kris Draper, Vaclav Varada ($5.8 million*) and Mike Grier ($7 million*) that are going to take the hit under a cap system.
*career earnings

 

[A Good Flying Bird*]

It won't be put on ALL the player's backs. The stars will still get the big bucks. It's the guys like Kris Draper, Vaclav Varada ($5.8 million*) and Mike Grier ($7 million*) that are going to take the hit under a cap system.
*career earnings

I agree.
The middle class and upper middle class are the players who'll get screwed if the NHL adopts a hard cap.
It's pretty tough to screw the guys at the bottom.
And there will always be a huge market for the superstar players (they bring identity/prestige to a franchise, not to mention ticket sales and merchandise).
It's the Drapers/Maltbys, valuable players who've worked long and hard to increase their worth, who'll get screwed.

 

[MojoJojo]

Yeah Kris, and how many players wouldn't have NHL jobs at all without the Floridas and the Nashville's, and the Tampa's?!

You dont really think that the core of that team; Habib, St Louis, Richards, Lecavalier, would be out of work? The talented players on the expansion teams would just be playing further north, pushing out the fourth line pylons and making the game better to watch for the rest of us.

 

[BLONG7]

Draper makes the players look like knobs... if there was no expansion there would be alot less jobs for these sour puss's...and guys like him would have a very short career. If they were to cut the NHL rosters to 20(currently at 23) and 4 teams folded, then there would be about 150 less NHL union jobs, which would leave about 550 in the union, and the hockey would be much improved, and guys like Drapes could go and be the star in the Swiss league and not have to put up with Gary B and his sidekick owners! BTW Drapes salary would be just a little lower being the big man on a Swiss team, instead of being overpaid in the Motor City!

 

[YellHockey*]

I don't know of any industry in the free world where the employees don't eat all of the downscaling. If your company is losing money, expenses get cut, which generally means employees and benefits get cut.

It doesn't fall just on the rank and file. If the company is losing money it sometimes cuts the least promising projects. By that token, the NHL would be cutting teams, not player salaries.

As well, there would be cuts to management. But in the NHL, that doesn't seem to be happening. How many team presidents have been fired for losing money?

 

[Winger98]

As for expansion, its been a significant driver in Draper's pay rises. But no its bad? I guess that linkage goes over his head too.

Why can't he see the connection and still see how expansion may have been bad for the league?

 

[Brent Burns Beard]

How many team presidents have been fired for losing money?

excellent point. if one of these owners "other" business was as sick as they claim the NHL is, wouldnt they hold their executives accountable ?

dr

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Why can't he see the connection and still see how expansion may have been bad for the league?

It's not expansion that has hurt the game, it's the fact that we're now seeing guys getting paid $5-10 million to score MAYBE 30 goals. The overall product has declined yet the salaries have all risen. It seems these days that ONLY the goaltender is worth his salary. We get MAYBE 1 50-goal man per year, and MAYBE 1 100-point man. That's not good enough.

The players aren't worse than they used to be, they're better. So, expansion hasn't hurt the league, there are a myriad of things that have hurt the league--a lack of time and space, caused by the trap and by the general size of players today (plus an added official), the reduction in neutral-zone space in order to implement the "Gretzky Rule" behind the net (one of the least forward-thinking moves in sports history, I might add), and the combination of players too easily getting hurt and not 'hungry' enough to bring it night in, night out are the main culprits for why the game is the way it is today. IMHO, of course.

All these players continue to talk about expansion being a bad idea in an effort to paint the commish in a negative light, but it has little to do with any potential solutions to the lockout. The game needs fixing, that much I think EVERYBODY can agree on.

But we won't get to that stage of the game without some form of linkage between revenues and salaries.

 

[Skylab]

Draper makes the players look like knobs... if there was no expansion there would be alot less jobs for these sour puss's...and guys like him would have a very short career. If they were to cut the NHL rosters to 20(currently at 23) and 4 teams folded, then there would be about 150 less NHL union jobs, which would leave about 550 in the union, and the hockey would be much improved, and guys like Drapes could go and be the star in the Swiss league and not have to put up with Gary B and his sidekick owners! BTW Drapes salary would be just a little lower being the big man on a Swiss team, instead of being overpaid in the Motor City!

First off I can't see rosters being trimmed to 20 (too thin a margin for injury)
Even if it was and 4 teams were cut, Draper still has a place in the league. Yes some players would lose there jobs, but Draper is not one of them

 

[me2]

You dont really think that the core of that team; Habib, St Louis, Richards, Lecavalier, would be out of work? The talented players on the expansion teams would just be playing further north, pushing out the fourth line pylons and making the game better to watch for the rest of us.

6 teams, 9 top players per team (and pospects on top of that) and thats 54 players looking for work with 24 clubs. That's 2 to 3 players being pushed out of each remaining club, and about 7-10 players getting push down the payscale. Draper is one of those guys that'd be bumped down the line. Draper is good but he's just a grinder. If Lecavalier or Gaborik came on the market due to 6 franchises closing, Draper would find his salary disappearing into Lecavalier's pocket in an instant.

 

[Skylab]

but

Draper is right in the fact that the owner's want a solution that sames them from themselves.
I understand that the previous system is done and that the owners are justified in looking for a better system, but the fact remains that teams gave out outrageous salaries, drove the economics of the game totally out of line and did more than there fair share of creating the mess that currently exists.

Instead of spending a few years building up a war chest to be able to afford to scrap a season or two, how about spending that time finding a workable solution.

This game can't afford the old system, but it also can't afford what is happening now. it's time to set the ****ing egos at the door and get something done for the good of the league, the owners, the players, the fans and most importantly, the game that we all love.