Dawes vs. Parise

Discussion in 'NHL Draft - Prospects' started by modestfwd, Aug 10, 2004.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
View Users: View Users
  1. modestfwd

    modestfwd Registered User

    Joined:
    May 17, 2004
    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    How do you think these two compare?
    Both are gifted players who work hard, while being a bit undersized.
    At the WJC, they were both their team's best player.
    I think if Canada won the gold, Dawes would have definately gotten MVP.

    So, thoughts?
     
  2. Jason MacIsaac

    Jason MacIsaac Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2004
    Messages:
    18,075
    Likes Received:
    269
    Trophy Points:
    154
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    NWO RCN
    Location:
    Halifax, NS
    Dawes is a better scorer....thats about it.
     
  3. Moskau

    Moskau Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    Messages:
    18,325
    Likes Received:
    1,783
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Location:
    WNY
    We will see how good Parise is defensively when he gets to the NHL.

    Quite frankly when you're undersized, scoring is all that may matter.
     
  4. Mr.Brownov*

    Mr.Brownov* Guest

    J M I said it all.He can pump in the goals.And IMO,Nigel wasn't Canada's best player.I think A.Stewart was.
     
  5. adichiara03

    adichiara03 Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2004
    Messages:
    102
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Dawes was Canada's best player, I havent heard otherwise until now.
     
  6. Jason MacIsaac

    Jason MacIsaac Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2004
    Messages:
    18,075
    Likes Received:
    269
    Trophy Points:
    154
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    NWO RCN
    Location:
    Halifax, NS
    Last I checked defensive play, playmaking, grit, heart and leadership also come into the game. I may be wrong though.
     
  7. Moskau

    Moskau Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    Messages:
    18,325
    Likes Received:
    1,783
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Location:
    WNY
    Like I said, let's see how willing he is when he's going against guys twice his size and 100x tougher.
     
  8. Rabid Ranger

    Rabid Ranger 2 is better than one

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    22,871
    Likes Received:
    660
    Trophy Points:
    214
    Occupation:
    Contract manager
    Location:
    Murica
    He's been excelling under such circumstances throughout his hockey career. Why would that change at the NHL level? If Chris Drury can excel at the NHL level, Parise can.
     
  9. Classic Devil

    Classic Devil Spirit of 1988

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2003
    Messages:
    43,987
    Likes Received:
    6,597
    Trophy Points:
    187
    Location:
    Columbus, Ohio
    Awards:
    This argument drives me crazy. He's 5'11" which isn't even all that small. There are many players in the NHL who are Parise's size who excel at the game. Parise has heart, and that's why he'll succeed.
     
  10. ZombieMatt

    ZombieMatt Registered User

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    5,242
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    There are a good number of 'undersized' players who survive, and are very successful, in the NHL as defensively responsible, gritty, etc, players. Matt Cooke is one that comes to mind.

    Zach Parise has the tools to last in the NHL, there is no doubt in my mind. What I do doubt is people hyping him as a top 10-15 prospect, which I disagree with, but we'll see in a few years who is right. Parise is going to be an NHLer, I'd put money on it, but what role he has in the NHL I'm not so confident it will be as big as Devils fans hope.
     
  11. Fleury14

    Fleury14 Remember the Kipper

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2002
    Messages:
    5,604
    Likes Received:
    203
    Trophy Points:
    156
    Location:
    Toronto, ON
    Home Page:
    Comparing Parise and Dawes is like comparing apples and planes... there's no comparison.

    Dawes - the best player for Canada at the WJC's? Gimme a break, he had two excellent linemates who were both noticeable superior to him. Not to mention the likes of Carter, Talbot, Crosby, most of the defense, and others.
     
  12. Moskau

    Moskau Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    Messages:
    18,325
    Likes Received:
    1,783
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Location:
    WNY
    That's what I'm saying.

    Jason and many NJD fans have already have the kid pegged as a Selke, Hart, Conn Smythe, Art Ross winner in 4-5 years.
     
  13. Classic Devil

    Classic Devil Spirit of 1988

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2003
    Messages:
    43,987
    Likes Received:
    6,597
    Trophy Points:
    187
    Location:
    Columbus, Ohio
    Awards:
    I think Parise can be another Scott Gomez, just more goals, more defense, less assists, and perhaps fewer points overall. And not right away either... he'll have a good rookie campaign and I think he'll contend for the Calder, we'll see.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2004
  14. Hunter Gathers

    Hunter Gathers ordinary corrupt human love Sponsor

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    110,570
    Likes Received:
    8,060
    Trophy Points:
    231
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    corporate drone
    Location:
    parts unknown
    I think Dawes has the most heart of any young player out there. The kid will never give up until he's in the NHL.
     
  15. Unknownbutfamous

    Unknownbutfamous Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2004
    Messages:
    457
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    34
    Dawes did lead the tourney in goals and tied for points didn't he? He IMO was Canada's best player.
     
  16. Rabid Ranger

    Rabid Ranger 2 is better than one

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    22,871
    Likes Received:
    660
    Trophy Points:
    214
    Occupation:
    Contract manager
    Location:
    Murica

    A fair assessment, although I would be interested in what you think will hold him back at the NHL level. If it's size, I don't think you truly appreciate the kind of player he is.
     
  17. ZombieMatt

    ZombieMatt Registered User

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    5,242
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    No, I don't think its really purely size. There are short players in the NHL right now which are able to be offensive players, although obviously the odds of those types of prospects making it aren't as great as a more typically sized person.

    Frankly I just don't think Parise has the skill set to be a top line player. He plays hard, and he does have good skills for sure, but he doesn't have the mind boggling skills in my opinion to be an impact player at that size (not that he's really small, he's less than average but he's not a 'small' player to me).

    Personally I think Parise's permanent upside is as a 2nd line player, I'm just not as enamoured by his play as most people are. And I recognize that. I realize that most people strongly disagree with me, and many think he's a close to sure thing first rounder, and all that. I'm just in the minority.

    Anyhow, my personal projection for Parise is a slightly below average second liner. We'll see what happens with him though, chances are the majority is right and I'm wrong.
     
  18. Vlad The Impaler

    Vlad The Impaler Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    12,099
    Likes Received:
    283
    Trophy Points:
    199
    Location:
    Montreal
    Selke winners:

    1987 Dave Poulin
    1988 Guy Carbonneau
    1989 Guy Carbonneau
    1990 Rick Meagher
    1991 Dirk Graham
    1992 Guy Carbonneau
    1993 Doug Gilmour
    1994 Sergei Fedorov
    1995 Ron Francis
    1996 Sergei Fedorov

    1997 Mike Peca
    1998 Jere Lehtinen
    1999 Jere Lehtinen
    2000 Steve Yzerman
    2001 John Madden
    2002 Mike Peca
    2003 Jere Lehtinen

    In bold are the three winners listed at over 6 feet 0. I repeat, the three winners. And for every Bobby Holik who didn't make it, we can find a Draper. You're completely wrong.

    You're still a hockey player no matter how big, and all that matters for a player of any size is to make a contribution worthy enough to stick to the team.

    Tie Domi is small, and an enforcer.
    Peca is small, and a defensive force who used to be a great leadership presence and provides grit.
    Barnaby is a puke, so is Avery. They are certainly not there for their offense.
    Stephane Robidas has produced less than 50 points in over 250 NHL games and at 5 foot 11, finds a job in this league despite very limited talent. He's a 5 foot 11 D solid in his zone.

    Mike Ricci, Maltby, Curtis Brown, all 6 foot sharp. One inch over Parise... woohoo! :amazed:

    The sum of your attributes make the player you are. Not one attribute in particular. And offense is far from the only role a 5 foot 11 player like Parise (or a smaller player for that matter) can play.
     
  19. Vlad The Impaler

    Vlad The Impaler Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    12,099
    Likes Received:
    283
    Trophy Points:
    199
    Location:
    Montreal
    I believe he is better suited for 2nd line duty myself, but an amazing one. More valuable than many first liners. I find his skillset very impressive but not that flashy.

    I don't expect him to take the league by storm but I think he'll end up one of the better players in his draft class.

    He's been overpublicized with the McGuire TV outcry and the overrated Devils scout picking him.
     
  20. meehan

    meehan Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2003
    Messages:
    1,963
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    139
    Occupation:
    Senior Systems Engineer
    Location:
    new york
    Home Page:
    You want to explain to me how Devils scouting is overrated? Considering they have been top team in the league the last decade and have won the cup three times, I think they have done a very good job drafting considering they have had low picks for many years now.
     
  21. ndhockey21

    ndhockey21 Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2004
    Messages:
    279
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    North Dakota
    Parise is a very talented player who has excelled at every level so far in his life wether it be college, world juniors or shattuck leauge w/e that is.
     
  22. ZombieMatt

    ZombieMatt Registered User

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    5,242
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I think Vlad is calling them over-rated because many on HF seem to hold the Devils (and Red Wings for that matter) on a silver platter when discussing scouts. I know many Canucks fans on the Canucks board are ranting about how great Edler is based largely on teh fact that the Wings were also interested him (there are other reasons why there is hype, but that's a contributing factor).

    The Devils certainly have good scouting, but I'm not sure they have the absolutely outstanding scouting many people believe they do. Personally I think the strong point of the organization is their trading ability as well as how they always manage to sign the right people. The organization is very good, it seems to me anyhow, at picking up players in FA/trades who fit into the mold of their team.

    I'm not saying the Devils don't scout well, because they certainly do, a top 10 team for me easily, maybe even top 5, but they're not the be all and end all of NHL team scouts I don't think.
     
  23. meehan

    meehan Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2003
    Messages:
    1,963
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    139
    Occupation:
    Senior Systems Engineer
    Location:
    new york
    Home Page:
    See, a general misconception is that scouts only are responsible for providing input on draft picks. Scouts play a huge role in what established nhl players a team acquires via trade or free agency. They watch nhl players and relay information to the gm and he processes all this info and decides who to pick up. Since the Devils are very good at picking up the right players, their scouts do a good job.

    And as far as original draft picks go; the core of the current Devils team are all original draft picks(Elias, Niedermayer, Brodeur). Only 5 Devil players played on all 3 of their championship teams, and 4 of the 5 are original draft picks. And they are one of the top teams as far as original draft picks currently playing in the NHL. Shows me they are doing a damn good job drafting. And let me again stress that it's tougher to draft well when you win alot. No one can match the Devils when it comes to year in and year out success on the nhl level and success at the draft table. Who else has won 3 cups in the last decade AND has drafted the calibur of players the Devils have in that timespan?
     
  24. The Mighty Duck Man

    The Mighty Duck Man R-E-L-A-X

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2003
    Messages:
    26,023
    Likes Received:
    297
    Trophy Points:
    199
    Location:
    Saskatoon
    Home Page:
    While the cliche is that all the small guys got heart, does he really? He seems like a nice kid, but for all we know he could be Jeremy Shockey.

    Seriously folks, it's Parise by a wide margin.
     
  25. Vlad The Impaler

    Vlad The Impaler Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    12,099
    Likes Received:
    283
    Trophy Points:
    199
    Location:
    Montreal
    The secret is organizational, particularly the farming.

    David Conte gets way too much credit, the development of all these players does not get enough, nor does the team system.

    The sum of all the parts in the Devils organization is also far, far superior to each parts. Observe how they have often turned players who weren't even drafted by them into good contributors. Like that big goof-slacker Arnott, whom they turned into a playoffs hero.

    They don't draft too many superstars over there, and I notice people often expect stars out of the Devils. They draft only decently, and turn guys into team players.

    That's what I mean by overrated.

    I think Parise is their best pick in a long time and I think they make their fair share of "WTF is Conte smoking?" picks.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "358c248ada348a047a4b9bb27a146148"